Skip to comments.The Non-Jewish Question (Why are socialists so anti-semitic? This book has the answer)
Posted on 05/26/2010 11:22:40 PM PDT by citizenredstater9271
The few serious contributions by socialist writers towards understanding Jews and Jewish history are normally entitled The Jewish Question (Abram Leon's book) or The Jewish Problem (Isaac Deutcher's essay on 'The Russian Revolution and the Jewish Problem'). Also, reactionary writings on this subject have similar titlesfor instance Marx's article and Sack's book on The Jewish Question. What is really at issue here is a non-Jewish problem. It is a non-Jewish problem every time a Jew on the Left comes out as Jewish and is immediately requestedwith grave suspicion by the person making the requestto give their position on ... zionism. No questions are ever asked, either on a personal or a political level, about other aspects of Jewish identity or Jewish culture, or anything that might conceivably be positive about being Jewish. Every single contemporary quotation referred to in this book originates either in articles by the Left on zionism, or alternatively in articles by the Left responding to criticism of anti-semitism by Jewish socialists.
Non-Jews have an independent responsibility to face up to the power of anti-semitism in all its aspectsincluding anti-semitism within the Left. It should not always be up to Jews to take the initiative. The tragedy is that much of the socialist tradition, far from being a liberating force, is actually part of the problem.
It is unfortunately true that many of the criticisms made in this pamphlet can be made of the Left in all its activitiesand not just in relation to Jews....
(Excerpt) Read more at engageonline.org.uk ...
Does it also require one to be anti-anarchist? Anarchist-socialists are also anti-semitic. Look at the article.
Cheers and God bless!
And yet Marx wasJewish... I don’t think socialists hate/likeJewsanymore than anyone else.
Born Lev Davidovich Bronstein son of a prosperous Jewish farmer.
Funny how all of the revolutionaries are privileged children.
I didn’t read this, but most Jews seem to be socialist, at least the ones I have run into. So it would be odd if socialists were anti-Semitical.
Offspring of prosperity are the ones with the leisure to plot revolution and the detachment from earning and production to miss reality altogether. They never understand the creation of wealth. They think it is always there in an unalterable quantity that by rights should be equally shared by all. Only a college educated intellectual can believe all the contradictions inherent in such views simultaneously.
I think a better question - taking in what you posted - would be: Why are so many Jews attracted to socialism when it is (supposedly?) anti-semitic?
Lenin and Stalin were baptized, those are YOUR people, don’t pawn all of the commie scum on us.
Must be something in the Christian blood, eh? (sound ludicrous? so does most of the BS here).
You must be confused.
My only reference was to Trotsky.
I know that Stalin was a failed seminarian. (Sort of like Al Gore; Hmm might be something there)
No you’re confused.
Someone mentioned marx as a JOO. Then they or someone else pointed out that his parents converted him out to some CHRISTIAN thing as a young child, so MARX can’t be blamed as a JOO for marxism. (he HATED JEWS).
MARXISM MUST STEM FROM HIS CHRISTIANITY, RIGHT?????
Then YOU came right back and blamed Trotsky for being a JOO (later murdered by communists).
I am not confused.
As fed up as I am with jinos who are jewish by birth accident and have zero-to-little affiliation with JUDAISM voting ‘Rat., I am as FED UP AND BORED with ignorant Freepers constantly going
“i can’t understand how these jews keep voting left I just çan’t understand, i just cant’ understand it, snicker, dumb jews, I just can’t understand it.”
Now if thats not you, then have a nice day.
The Socialist Roots of Antisemitism:
A different authors take on the same subject.
See if this makes more sense:
"But you cant believe whatever you want and be a
There is this thing called
doctrine Torah and the Mitzvot (Commandments in English, the main 10, plus ANOTHER 593) which defines the beliefs of Catholics Jews. If you do not believe in these things you are free in this country to seek out others who believe as you do."
Just dont call yourselves
(And yes, our Rabbis say anyone born a Jew is still a Jew if he doesn't practice (up to a point), but for the sake of this discussion, thats like demanding that you still accept someone as a Catholic who believes in abortion just because they were baptized...) And further and finally, how you feel if EVERY DAY you came on Catholic FR threads and a hald dozen freepers daily bash the millions of Catholics who voted for Ø, and we cluck our tongues, "what kind of Catholics are these, they swung the important states for Ø, I just don't understand how any Catholic can vote 'Rat..."
Now if thats not you, then have a nice day.
Well I certainly understand your feelings and I hope you dont sour totally on FreeRepublic.
I can certainly sympathize with you as I am a Catholic. You might have noticed that there is an anti-Catholic cabal on FR. There is more than a few that turnouts for any thread in which a Catholic Priest is accused of molesting children.
There are also those here on FR that attack the Mormons at every turn even though there could not be a more conservative religious group in the US.
Religious bigotry is not endemic to FR it is simply a part of the human make up. It is something we must constantly be aware of in ourselves and fight against.
If I offended I apologize it was not my intent.
What doctrines, beliefs, define a Jew who lives his faith? I don't know of any other religion that has defined objectively what it takes to be inside and what it takes to be outside. Any teaching outside of the Catholic Church are just one persons opinion.
Revolutionary Vanguard is always made up of the middle class or elite. Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin) was a noble.
Then you should read it. “Jewish Socialists” are either antisemite or fools who have subsumed Judaism towards their own atheist immanentization of the eschaton known as socialism or, worse, communism.
Jewish socialists and Jewish anarchist-socialists don’t even know their own ideology’s history. I take it they get suckered into socialism b/c they like the charity aspect or the “help the underdog” idea. Next time you meet a Jewish socialist show him this article and ask if he’ll still regard Marx as a god after reading it.
Only then could Judaism achieve universal dominance and make alienated man and alienated nature into alienable, vendible objects subjected to the slavery of egoistic need and to trading.
Selling [verausserung] is the practical aspect of alienation [Entausserung]. Just as man, as long as he is in the grip of religion, is able to objectify his essential nature only by turning it into something alien, something fantastic, so under the domination of egoistic need he can be active practically, and produce objects in practice, only by putting his products, and his activity, under the domination of an alien being, and bestowing the significance of an alien entity – money – on them.
In its perfected practice, Christian egoism of heavenly bliss is necessarily transformed into the corporal egoism of the Jew, heavenly need is turned into world need, subjectivism into self-interest. We explain the tenacity of the Jew not by his religion, but, on the contrary, by the human basis of his religion – practical need, egoism.
Since in civil society the real nature of the Jew has been universally realized and secularized, civil society could not convince the Jew of the unreality of his religious nature, which is indeed only the ideal aspect of practical need. Consequently, not only in the Pentateuch and the Talmud, but in present-day society we find the nature of the modern Jew, and not as an abstract nature but as one that is in the highest degree empirical, not merely as a narrowness of the Jew, but as the Jewish narrowness of society.
Once society has succeeded in abolishing the empirical essence of Judaism – huckstering and its preconditions – the Jew will have become impossible, because his consciousness no longer has an object, because the subjective basis of Judaism, practical need, has been humanized, and because the conflict between man’s individual-sensuous existence and his species-existence has been abolished.
Also get them to read what the anarchist-socialists said about jews. That IMHO is worse.
Marx wasn’t a Jew. Marx hated Jews and made no secret of it. Marx was an atheist.
Thanks for that article. I threw up after reading it. No wonder the leftists who worship Marx, Lenin, Trotski, Bakhunin and Proudhon copy there master’s anti-semitism and tote “free “Palestine” and “death to Israel” any chance they get.
Karl Marx was raised a Lutheran. In all of Marx’ voluminous writings, including personal letters, his comments on Jews and Judaism were the conventional anti-Semitism of the times. I know of no Marx insights into Judaism as religion, nor any hint of education in Judaism or any self-awareness of himself as one of Jewish ancestry.
I think about it all the time, every time I see socialism leading to envy and hatred of your fellow man, even among your own population group, but especially against anyone who is different.
Without private ownership, your fellow citizens (comrades) become potential competitors for all you have or will have, there is no incentive to improve anything or take care of anything.
“Does it also require one to be anti-anarchist? Anarchist-socialists are also anti-semitic. “
Yes, add “anti-anarchist.”
“Look at the article.”
I did. And I read this:
“There are Jewish socialist organisations which are trying to (re)create an unoppressive socialist tradition in this country. As Jews we hope we have particular experiences that can enrich this.”
a/ there is no socialism without state sponsored oppression.
b/ They aren’t Jews, they are jinos.
“Marx wasnt a Jew. Marx hated Jews and made no secret of it. Marx was an atheist.”
I already agreed with that.
“Where exactly does it specify that one should be anti-communist?”
when what I said was:
“As far as this Jew is concerned, belief in the G-d of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob requires one to be anti-communist and anti-jihadist. “
To try and answer you, Torah law is one of the foundations of capitalism, and communism attempts to wipe out Judaism (and Christianity). Since one of Jewish life’s dictum is TO LIVE AS A JEW, the simple answer is you have to fight/destroy he who is trying to destroy you in order to stay alive.
17 of course was to you.
And I thank you fort having better self-control than I exhibited.
I certainly do see now that Catholics and other Christians are bashed repeatedly here at FR and I was being too-thin-skinned.
Please accept my apologies if I offended you.
“If a Catholic does not go to frequent confession, and mass every Sunday, if he is divorced and remarried, if he uses contraceptives, if he does not believe just ONE dogma, he is a CINO. If he were to die suddenly, he would go to Hell. That tells you to what extent we can be certain they are not Catholic.”
Well this is similar to what observant (i.e., at a minimum, those who keep kosher and hold by the Sabbath) Jews feel. We don’t have a Pope, but we do tend to follow the instructions of our Rabbi(s) and somewhat be bound by the formal and informal support vs censor of our communities.
There are some “over-riding” precepts for cutting people quite a bit of slack. “compassion” and “giving the benefit of the doubt” is virtually a commandment. i.e., if you accidentally buy a ham and cheese sandwich and bring it into your synagogue, you will cause a stink. If you REPEATEDLY do it you would likely be banned and thrown out of the synagogue.
“What doctrines, beliefs, define a Jew who lives his faith? I don’t know of any other religion that has defined objectively what it takes to be inside and what it takes to be outside. Any teaching outside of the Catholic Church are just one persons opinion.”
Commitment to the 613 “Mitzvot” (i.e., commandments, many of which don’t apply until the Temple is rebuilt, G-d willing) and, “Ani Ma’amin” / “I believe [”The 13 Foundations of Judaism”].
Here is one translation:
As much as I and others here rail against “jinos” please understand that the “community” accepts someone as a Jew as long as their mother was Jewish (or he or the mother converted according to Jewish Law) until they have consistently and repeatedly gone against the Law and the community.
The “consistently and repeatedly” is what is often debated.
PS _ I am NOT a Rabbi nor have I had as much instruction from any that I should have...
CC RMLEW (and for good reason ( : >)
I dug up some considerable quotes from socialists concerning Jews. There’s probably hundreds more.
“Let us not seek the secret of the Jew in his religion, but let us seek the secret of the religion in the real Jew. What is the profane basis of Judaism? Practical need, self-interest. What is the worldly cult of the Jew? Huckstering. What is his worldly god? Money. Very well: then in emancipating itself from huckstering and money, and thus from real and practical Judaism, our age would emancipate itself. An organization of society which would abolish the preconditions and thus the very possibility of huckstering, would make the Jew impossible. His religious consciousness would evaporate like some insipid vapour in the real, life-giving air of society . . .We discern in Judaism, therefore, a universal antisocial element of the present time, whose historical development, zealously aided in its harmful aspects by the Jews, has now attained its culminating point, a point at which it must necessarily begin to disintegrate. In the final analysis, the emancipation of the Jews is the emancipation of mankind from Judaism.” Marx
Show that to the 80% of Jews who voted for Obamarx.
“There the great universally progressive features of Jewish culture have made themselves clearly felt: its internationalism, its responsiveness of the advanced movements of our times (the percentage of Jews in democratic and proletarian movements is everywhere higher than the percentage of Jews in the general population.)...Those Jewish Marxists who join up in the international Marxist organizations with the Russian, Lithuanian, Ukrainian and other workers, adding their might (both in Russian and in Jewish) to the creation of an international culture of the working class movement, are continuing the best traditions of Jewry.” Lenin
“Marx is a Jew and is surrounded by a crowd of little, more or less intelligent, scheming, agile, speculating Jews, just as Jews are everywhere, commercial and banking agents, writers, politicians, correspondents for newspapers of all shades; in short, literary brokers, just as they are financial brokers, with one foot in the bank and the other in the socialist movement, and their arses sitting upon the German press. They have grabbed hold of all newspapers, and you can imagine what a nauseating literature is the outcome of it. Now this entire Jewish world, which constitutes an exploiting sect, a people of leeches, a voracious parasite, Marx feels an instinctive inclination and a great respect for the Rothschilds. This may seem strange. What could there be in common between communism and high finance? Ho ho! The communism of Marx seeks a strong state centralization, and where this exists there must inevitably exist a state central bank, and where this exists, there the parasitic Jewish nation, which speculates upon the labor of the people, will always find the means for its existence...In reality, this would be for the proletariat a barrack regime, under which the workingmen and the working closely and intimately connected with one another, regarless not only of frontiers but of political differences as well - this Jewish world is today largely at the disposal of Marx or Rothschil. I am sure that, on the one hand, the Rothschilds appreciate the merits of Marx, and that on the other hand, women, converted into a uniform mass, would rise, fall asleep, work and live at the beat of the drum; the privilege of ruling would be in the hands of the skilled and the learned, with a wide scope left for profitable crooked deals carried on by the Jews, who would be attracted by the enormous extension of the international speculations of the national banks...” Bakhunin
Bakhunin hated Marx b/c Marx was Jewish just like Marx hated other Jews.
“This race [Jews] poisons everything by meddling everywhere without ever joining itself to another people. Demand their expulsion from France, with the exception of individuals married to Frenchwomen. Abolish the synagogues; do not admit them to any kind of employment, pursue finally the abolition of this cult... The Jew is the enemy of the human race. One must send this race back to Asia or exterminate it... By fire or fusion or by expulsion, the Jew must disappear... What the peoples of the middle ages hated by instinct I hate upon reflection and irrevocably.” Proudhon
Proudhon called for Jewish genocide 90 years before Hitler. This is the same person who said private property is theft. I have to ask if his and every other socialist’s views on Jews came out of his anti-capitalism.
Show liberal and socialist Jews these quotes. They don’t even know the history of their own ideology or the people who created it.
A whole book? Only one word is needed: envy. It's the same reason socialists and communists are anti-rich and anti-successful.
Many Jews become leftists for the purpose of envy deflection, mainly in cases when they are outnumbered. Jews don't fear getting looted and killed by the right, but by the left, so they join the left as an appeasement strategy.
Invoking shame is the best way to counter envy, not appeasement. Publicly accusing someone of being antisemitic is an example of invoking shame. Jews and other targets of envy should expand these techniques to attack envy head-on in all its forms. Carrying on like a hurt self-contemplative victim only eggs them on.
The idea is leftist and socialist Jews have no idea that their ideology was crafted by antisemites like Marx and Proudhon.
I think I’m not alone when I say it’s no surprise why leftists chant “Death to Israel” and support Arab terrorists who want to destroy the Jewish State.
Leftists, both foreign and domestic, want to destroy America too, and they’re going to succeed. Leftists envy and want to destroy many things, not just Israel and Jews. It doesn’t work to fight a forest fire of envy by spraying water on just Jewish trees.
So was Marx
If youd like to be on or off, please FR mail me.
From what I know the Torah emphasizes hard work, personal responsibility and private property so it’s clear why anti-capitalist socialists and anarchists would hate those who follow the Torah (Jews). Your guess is as good as mine.
“Please explain to me why Torah law is one of the foundations of capitalism? I ask because I do not know and any information you can give me would be valued”
Read the Torah.
Yehuda, what other reasons would you give for why socialists (esp. socialism’s philosophers) would hate Jews and Judaism so much? I’m not too familiar with the Torah or Talmud but I know if all the early socialists and today’s socialists and leftists hate Jews the way they do there must be a reason. What do you think?
I’ve read the Torah and see no place where it is one of the foundations of capitalism. On the contrary, it condemns usury, without specifying what exactly that constitutes.
I am not a rabbi. This is the best I can do for you:
So now that the whole world is up in arms about Israel defending itself from the Hamas-al-qaeda terror flotilla all the leftists and socialists are out bashing Israel again. But looking at their history what reason would anyone have to think differently?