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Founding of America and gospel Restoration are divinely connected
Mormon Times ^ | June 29, 2010 | Trent Toone

Posted on 06/29/2010 11:08:25 AM PDT by Colofornian

Even with religious freedom and the birth of a new nation, the Restoration of the gospel was still an uphill battle. Only with a divinely orchestrated plan and precise timing was a space carved out for the young Mormon church to grow.

That was the thesis of a phone conversation with John C. Thomas, who teaches LDS Church history and other subjects in the Department of Religious Education at BYU-Idaho…

"I don't know if we (the church) survived by the skin of our teeth, but it was a tough go," Thomas said. "It's remarkable that you had to bring a 17-year-old Joseph Smith and a centuries-old record into proximity so that (the Book of Mormon) could happen…”

SNIP

Even then, it was an uphill battle. Local Protestant churches accused the Mormons of being religious heretics. Following the Civil War, the federal government thought Mormons were dangerous because they were different from other churches, Thomas said.

SNIP

First, Elder Maxwell outlined, the Lord raised up highly talented and wise men (see Doctrine and Covenants 101:80). Second, they needed to live in one geographic area on this planet. Third, this contiguity had to occur in a short time frame. Fourth, the citizens had to be prepared and want to implement and sustain self-governance.

Citing historian Barbara Tuchman, Elder Maxwell called the Founding Fathers "the most remarkable generation of public men in the history of the United States or perhaps of any other nation. It would be invaluable if we could know what produced this burst of talent from a base of only two and a half million inhabitants."

(Excerpt) Read more at mormontimes.com ...


TOPICS: History; Other Christian; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: beck; glennbeck; inman; josephsmith; lds; mormon; restoration
From the article: the Restoration of the gospel...

Boy, I didn't know that Jesus Christ lost both His Bride (the Church) and the testimony among men about Himself???

From the article: Local Protestant churches accused the Mormons of being religious heretics. Following the Civil War, the federal government thought Mormons were dangerous because they were different from other churches, Thomas said.

Many gods exist. You can be one of them. Heresy? (Ya think?) And this guy teaches history that the feds thought Mormons "were dangerous" just "because they were different?"

Mass civil disobedience (polygamy). The Mountain Meadow Massacre, etc.

1 posted on 06/29/2010 11:08:31 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: All
From the article: First, Elder Maxwell outlined, the Lord raised up highly talented and wise men (see Doctrine and Covenants 101:80)… Elder Maxwell called the Founding Fathers "the most remarkable generation of public men in the history of the United States or perhaps of any other nation. It would be invaluable if we could know what produced this burst of talent from a base of only two and a half million inhabitants."

Well, it’s good the Constitution had such a footing. Because the early Mormon church seemed to lack such “talented and wise men.” Even the Mormon Times – at - Scribes recorded Prophet's 'crooked, broken language' - conceded:

...so many of his scribes fell away or died. The list is saddening: Whitmer, Rigdon, Parrish and Robinson all left the church, never to return. Cowdery, Williams and Phelps were excommunicated, but came into full fellowship. Hyde was disfellowshipped for a time. Mulholland and Thompson died in Illinois. Whitmer even took some of the documents with him on the way out of the church. Only Richards, Bullock and Clayton stayed in the church the whole time.

Indeed. Over half of those who worked closest with Smith and got to know him best either apostatized, were ex-communicated or were disfellowshipped (8 of the above-mentioned 14). I think that says more about Smith than about his employees, doncha think?

So that was the mid to late 1830s into the 1840s. What about the early 1830s? [Next post]

2 posted on 06/29/2010 11:12:08 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: All
Since the focus this week is on the "founders" of certain entities -- the U.S., the Mormon church (anniversary of Joseph Smith's death last Sunday), the Q is: Yes, such talent existed among the founding fathers of the U.S...but how would the early Mormon church be evaluated? (By Joseph Smith himself?)

Did Smith himself show harmony, kind feelings, and true charity toward the Kirtland Mormons?

Well, all you have to do is to examine Smith's Doctrine & Covenants' words toward them:

Example #1: According to Smith, he said the Kirtland Mormons were "wicked" in all manners of ways (D&C 98:19-20). (Not very uplifting or edifying)

Example #2: He addressed the Kirtlanders in 1831 and called them "terrible" (D&C 45:70). [Whoa! More compliments!]

Example #3: By the Spring of 1831, the Kirtlanders had "progressed" to "abominable" (D&C 54:20).

Example #4: By the end of 1833 (Dec. 16, 1833), perhaps as a Christmas "present," Smith was still lambasting the Kirtlander Mormons. This time, in D&C 101:1-2, he was blaming afflictions & persecution as being their fault -- because of their "transgressions."

Example #5: This Lds article -

So. Smith pummels them in words & calls that "Scripture" forevermore...saying they were "wicked...terrible...abominable..." deserving of affliction & persecution because of their "transgressions" and then accused them of not having "the Spirit of God."

(And then he furthermore has the gall to say): ...“As long as my brethren stand by me and encourage me...

(Oh, sure, such "wonderful" compliments of your sheep "always" elicits wonderful "encouragement" as a response!)

Example #6 -- From the same above article: Lds “prophet” Woodruff quote (footnote #13): “When he arose he said, ‘I am still the President, Prophet, Seer, Revelator and Leader of the Church of Jesus Christ. God, and not man, has appointed and placed me in this position, and no man or set of men have power to remove me or appoint another in my stead, and those who undertake this, if they do not speedily repent, will burn their fingers and go to hell.’ He reproved the people sharply for their sins, darkness and unbelief..."

More compliments from Smith about his sheep...apparently Smith thought they were full of "sins, darkness and unbelief" and said if men who were internally against him didn't repent, he was going to send them "to hell." Imagine that. Joseph Smith claiming he had the power to personally send people to hell. Wow! What a god!

3 posted on 06/29/2010 11:14:27 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

The early 1830’s had the first major critique of the first edition of the Book of Mormon by Alexander Campbell. He tore it to shreds, but it forced the Book of Mormon to edit a number of things to take out the most laughable lies.

The Mormon church is based on grotesque lies, but I can say that virtually all Mormon’s I’ve known are decent people who mean to follow God, but are simply misled.


4 posted on 06/29/2010 11:16:22 AM PDT by ConservativeMind (Hypocrisy: "Animal rightists" who eat meat & pen up pets while accusing hog farmers of cruelty.)
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To: Colofornian

My gosh these people are really full of themselves.
My guess is that the people of old where just sick of the weird unBiblical beliefs as well as this “we are so holy and you are nothing” attitude of the lds.


5 posted on 06/29/2010 11:17:26 AM PDT by svcw (Habakkuk 2:3)
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To: Colofornian
"We (the Mormons) actually had to leave America in 1846 from Nauvoo — but they took with them their attachment to the constitutional ideals that suggested they really could choose for themselves," Thomas said.

Wrong-o, JS wanted to over through the US Constitution. Good grief do these people not know what their leaders have stated? (Oh, sorry that was a good joke.)

6 posted on 06/29/2010 11:21:48 AM PDT by svcw (Habakkuk 2:3)
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To: Colofornian

A day will come when the True Gospel will be known by all. I suspect there will be a lot of disappointed people.


7 posted on 06/29/2010 11:55:00 AM PDT by LiteKeeper ("It's the peoples' seat!")
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http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2165423/posts

#36


8 posted on 06/29/2010 12:16:05 PM PDT by BlueMoose
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To: BlueMoose

and who are we responding to today BM? more of your little post to no one game?


9 posted on 06/29/2010 12:29:34 PM PDT by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: BlueMoose
 
 
"Any Latter-day Saint who denounces or opposes, whether actively or otherwise, any plan or doctrine advocated by the 'prophets, seers, and revelators' of the Church is cultivating the spirit of apostacy..."
(Improvement Era, June 1945, p. 354)
 
 
 
Reinforced here......
 

MP3 File

This is the audio clip of Dallin H. Oaks, current Mormon Apostle leader, from the PBS documentary, "The Mormons", declaring unequivocally:

"IT'S WRONG TO CRITICIZE LEADERS OF THE (MORMON) CHURCH, EVEN IF THE CRITICISM IS TRUE."
 

 
Don't criticize?

 
 
 
 
And here:
 

Temple Recommend Questions:

 1 Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost?

 2 Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?

 3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?

 4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

 5 Do you live the law of chastity?

 6 Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?

 7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

 8 Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

 9 Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?

10 Are you a full-tithe payer?

11 Do your keep the Word of Wisdom?

12 Do you have financial or other oblgations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?

13 If you have previously received your temple endowment:

     Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple?

     Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?

14 Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?

15 Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances?
 
 
 
 
 
 


Oh, they can say that their leaders were NOT speaking for GOD when they said ___WHATEVER__ but that's NOT the same as criticizing!


 
( Remember fellow Christians:  the Mormon's criticize US because they've been taught that they CAN'T criticize ANY of their leaders; so they HAVE to vent somehow! )

10 posted on 06/29/2010 12:32:24 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian

Awesome source article thanks! Really though you should post the whole thing next time.

Be sure to click through and read the whole great article!


11 posted on 06/29/2010 12:34:06 PM PDT by Paragon Defender
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To: Colofornian

Bookmark for my novel.

The LDS do not get that this is replacement theology and very similar to the same doctrines of white supremacist groups.


12 posted on 06/29/2010 1:04:11 PM PDT by reaganaut (The LDS church doesn't PRAY FOR the weak, they PREY ON them.)
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To: LiteKeeper

I suspect there will be a lot of disappointed people.

- - - - -
Well I know there will be a lot of Mormons who are FAR more than disappointed.

Burning in Hell for eternity = NOT fun.


13 posted on 06/29/2010 1:05:51 PM PDT by reaganaut (The LDS church doesn't PRAY FOR the weak, they PREY ON them.)
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To: reaganaut

“””I don’t know if we (the church) survived by the skin of our teeth, “”

Did they survive by the “white and delightsome” skin of their teeth?

Btw, I’m in slc for my first time (biz meeting). Anything I could do different while i’m here?


14 posted on 06/29/2010 1:15:13 PM PDT by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: fishtank; Utah Binger; T Minus Four; colorcountry

Btw, I’m in slc for my first time (biz meeting). Anything I could do different while i’m here?

- - - - -

I don’t know, it has been almost 20 years since I prowled around SLC. Pinging some of the inmans who live in the area or have lived there.


15 posted on 06/29/2010 1:29:00 PM PDT by reaganaut (The LDS church doesn't PRAY FOR the weak, they PREY ON them.)
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To: Colofornian
Just how did Jesus "lose" His Bride ???
16 posted on 06/29/2010 1:34:58 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Colofornian

Founding of America and gospel Restoration are divinely connected
______________________________________

But America was founded by a lot of “apostates”


17 posted on 06/29/2010 1:36:31 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: fishtank

You should go to Temple Square. There are evangelicals there on Thursday evening you could talk to.

Are you male or female?


18 posted on 06/29/2010 1:39:02 PM PDT by colorcountry ("Showing mercy to the wolves is showing cruelty to the sheep." - Unknown)
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To: fishtank

There are no really great joints in Salt Lake, however here are the ones I sometimes hit.

http://www.slctravel.com/nightlife.htm

Lumpy’s on Highland Drive is an older crowd.


19 posted on 06/29/2010 2:11:31 PM PDT by Utah Binger (Mount Carmel Utah, where Mr. Milquetoast lives with his "Persecution Complex")
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To: fishtank

Welcome to the valley of the annointed!! Are you looking for touristy kinds of things or places to eat or what? Are you downtown?

If you want architecture and touristy kinds of stuff and you’re downtown, get on the light rail (TRAX) and head east. Go see the Salt Lake City library and further east is the Olympic torch at Rice Eccles Stadium. Temple Square is good for architecture, too. Ignore the missionaries. There’s a fine arts museum at the University of Utah. TRAX runs right by it.

If you like outdoors stuff, you’re going to need a car. There are a lot of hiking trails in the canyons.


20 posted on 06/29/2010 2:38:26 PM PDT by Hoffer Rand (There ARE two Americas: "God's children" and the tax payers)
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To: reaganaut
Oh, and for some reason - I think a missing quotations mark -- the following graph "phantomed out" of post #3:

Example #5: This Lds article - Beware the Bitter Fruits of Apostasy:

“If the Saints in Kirtland deem me unworthy of their prayers when they assemble together, and neglect to bear me up at the throne of heavenly grace, it is a strong and convincing proof to me that they have not the Spirit of God."

21 posted on 06/29/2010 2:39:12 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Hoffer Rand; All

I ran up city creek canyon (?) for quite a ways. It’s good to see that caffeine and alcohol are available, but I’m a long way from being a big drinker. My hotel has NO b.o.m. in the nightstand (good), and I ran past temple square on theway to the canyon... It’s a very darth-vader looking building... Anyway... Still two more days to go.


22 posted on 06/29/2010 3:11:00 PM PDT by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: Tennessee Nana
"Founding of America and gospel Restoration are divinely connected" - But America was founded by a lot of “apostates”

...One of these things is not like the other...

23 posted on 06/29/2010 3:25:39 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (We never say "Who's going to get this?" We say ‘"The right people will get this.")
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To: fishtank
You can also stop by & see the new mall being totally financed by the Mormon church.

(Can you say Jesus & the money changers?)

24 posted on 06/29/2010 3:31:17 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: fishtank

Different than what? Where are you from?


25 posted on 06/29/2010 5:54:50 PM PDT by T Minus Four (Sin is not weighed with a balance scale. It's pass/fail and one sin = EPIC FAIL)
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To: fishtank
Be sure to try Jack Mormon Coffee on 82 E street. They grind the beans fresh for each CUP. www.jackmormoncoffee.com

And definately go to Squatters brewery (www.squatters.com) and try their specialty beers. Their polygamy ale is very popular and then you can go home with a T-shirt that says "I tried polygamy in Utah" or one like this:


26 posted on 06/29/2010 6:09:09 PM PDT by T Minus Four
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To: fishtank

The temple tour is really rather interesting, but the legions of stepford guides are creepy. They are all young, fresh-faced, attractive and their eyes are, like, blank. You will be asked “where are you from?” in 14 different international accents, but you can politely put them off. Take a look at the tabernacle building. The pipe organ is very impressive.


27 posted on 06/29/2010 6:15:31 PM PDT by T Minus Four
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To: Elsie; Tennessee Nana; Alex Murphy; All; reaganaut; SZonian; Godzilla; colorcountry; greyfoxx39
Mormon temple recommend Q: Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?

My Q for Mormon FReepers & lurkers is this: If the Book of Mormon "prophet" Nephi was a true "prophet," then wouldn't what he said in 2 Nephi 8:8 come true?

"For the moth shall eat them up like a garment, and the worm shall eat them like wool. But my righteousness shall be forever, and my salvation from generation to generation. (2 Nephi 8:8)

So tell us, Mormon "restorationists": If...
(1) ...Nephi prophesied that salvation would occur sequentially from generation to generation...
(2) ...and the apostle Paul prophesied that God would receive "glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen." (Eph. 3:21)
(3) ...and Joseph Smith prophesied Sept. 22-23, 1832 that the "priesthood continueth in the church of God in ALL GENERATIONS, and is WITHOUT BEGINNING OF DAYS OR END OF YEARS. And the Lord confirmed a priesthood also upon Aaron and his seed, THROUGHOUT ALL GENERATIONS, WHICH PRIESTHOOD ALSO CONTINUETH FOREVER WITH THE PRIESTHOOD which is after the holiest order of God." (D&C 84:17-18)
(4)...and if Smith also prophesied in 1832 to 1832 Mormons that this "priesthood hath continued through the lineage of your fathers" (D&C 86:8) -- and since almost all of the "fathers" of these 1832 Mormons were either Christian or pagan or deceased or whatever -- but certainly were NOT Mormons...

...Then tell, us dear Mormons: On what grounds do you exclude the Christian Church from your dear exclusive priesthood club?
On what grounds, dear Mormons: Do you exclude us from being the true church (according to D&C 1:30)?
On what grounds, dear Mormons: Do you call us "apostates" who triggered a needy "restoration" of the gospel and the true Church?
On what grounds, dear Mormons: Did you claim that the "light of the gospel leading to salvation" was lost for a long period of time on earth?

By labeling us all as such, you openly consign Nephi, the apostle Paul and Joseph Smith to the garbage bin of false prophets!

Interesting dilemma you have there. Deal with it.

28 posted on 06/29/2010 10:26:39 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: T Minus Four

I want that shirt!


29 posted on 06/29/2010 11:38:46 PM PDT by reaganaut (The LDS church doesn't PRAY FOR the weak, they PREY ON them.)
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To: T Minus Four

...Went to squatters... I don’t drink beer so I had tequila instead...


30 posted on 06/30/2010 4:45:11 PM PDT by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: T Minus Four

I’m not going to have time for a temple tour ... I’d be more interested in seeing the non.Mormon church buildings in downtown... Maybe I’ll do that tomorrow


31 posted on 06/30/2010 4:48:06 PM PDT by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: fishtank

I’m more of a wine drinker myself, but every once in a while - Margaritas!

Glad you get to enjoy Salt Lake. It’s a beautiful, clean city.


32 posted on 06/30/2010 6:36:43 PM PDT by T Minus Four (If we could "CTR" we wouldn't need a Savior.)
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To: T Minus Four
Be sure to try Jack Mormon Coffee on 82 E street. They grind the beans fresh for each CUP.

I remember attending an academic conference in SLC and how annoyed most of the participants were when the refreshments did not include coffee. One of my colleagues was on the planning committee and he told me that the professor in charge of accomodations was from BYU and didn't think that coffee was necessary so he didn't order any. That decision was quickly overruled when the complaints flooded in.

33 posted on 07/08/2010 3:31:55 PM PDT by CommerceComet
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To: T Minus Four

34 posted on 07/08/2010 3:41:47 PM PDT by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: CommerceComet

One thing I learned in Scouting...when serving on staff for an adult leader training course with a majority of mormons as staffers and participants, don’t let the mormon Quartermaster make the coffee.

He tried his best, but was relieved of that duty pretty quickly.

I counted my blessings though, they at least thought of the rest of us and let us have our coffee.


35 posted on 07/08/2010 3:56:00 PM PDT by SZonian (We began as a REPUBLIC, a nation of laws. We became a DEMOCRACY, majority rules. Next step is?)
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To: SZonian; Godzilla

36 posted on 07/08/2010 5:58:16 PM PDT by T Minus Four (If evolution is true, why do we still have reptiles, amoeba and worms?)
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To: T Minus Four

LOL
Death before Decaf!!!!


37 posted on 07/08/2010 6:48:05 PM PDT by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: T Minus Four; Godzilla

LOL! I forgot about that one! I’m going to put that up in the office coffee bar.

We had a guy in one of my last jobs who liked his coffee twice as strong as everyone else. And then we had a guy who drank decaf.

I had to make sure I beat both of them into work to ensure the proper pot of coffee was made each day to start off the day.

Otherwise, you could be bouncing off the walls or doing as they are in the last panel. It was a crapshoot.


38 posted on 07/08/2010 10:02:42 PM PDT by SZonian (We began as a REPUBLIC, a nation of laws. We became a DEMOCRACY, majority rules. Next step is?)
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