Posted on 08/05/2010 12:36:10 PM PDT by NYer
Is there a growing trend of Evangelicals converting to Catholicism? Many think so, including this recent article:
[There is a large] community of young believers whose frustration with the lack of authority, structure, and intellectualism in many evangelical churches is leading them in great numbers to the Roman Catholic Church. This trend of “Crossing the Tiber” (a phrase that also served as the title of Stephen K. Ray’s 1997 book on the phenomenon), has been growing steadily for decades, but with the help of a solid foundation of literature, exemplar converts from previous generations, burgeoning traditional and new media outlets, and the coming of age of Millennial evangelicals, it is seeing its pace quicken dramatically. [source]
The article gives the example of many such notable Evangelical converts from our generation, such as Scott Hahn, Marcus Grodi, Thomas Howard, Francis Beckwith and others. (It also mentions Patrick Madrid, but he is actually not a convert, from what I understand.)
The common threads that seem to be drawing many of these Evangelicals into the Catholic Church are its history, the Liturgy and its tradition of intellectualism.
So is this trend significant? Or is it dwarfed by what seems to be many more Catholics who seem to lose their faith or become complacent with it?
According to a 2009 Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, four people leave the Catholic Church for every one person that joins it. Keep in mind that this stat doesn’t count those born into Catholicism as “joining” it. However, it’s still a sad statistic. But we shouldn’t be misled by it.
There are also studies that show Catholicism has a higher rate of retention than all other religious groups. In other words, when people convert to Catholicism, they don’t do so because they didn’t like where they were and just wanted to try something new. Their conversion is deliberate and intentional and they generally stick with it. On the other hand, when people leave the Church, they generally drift around a bit from one denomination to another. This says a lot. The Catholic convert is actually experiencing real, lasting conversion. Those leaving the Church seem to be lost and searching souls that most likely had no idea what they were leaving in the first place.
I’ve long noticed, as have many others, a kind of trend as well. It’s not so much from “Evangelicals” converting to Catholicism necessarily. It’s that of intellectuals converting to Catholicism. And that’s not to say these intellectuals were strictly intellectual. But I mean it to say that they took their reasons for believing very seriously. We only have to look back a few generations to find Chesterton, Merton, Newman, etc. as part of the same trend.
In my own experience, I’ve seen that more people who convert to Catholicism do so on account of their reason. Whereas those that leave the Church do so based on some emotion or negative experience associated with the Church.
When I ask an evangelical why they left the Church. The answer is almost always an emotion. Something made them feel a certain way. Or they just didn’t like the way something was done in Catholicism. Or it didn’t suit their lifestyle. Or some other experience made them feel nice.
There is a long list of protestant (and other) leaders and scholars who have converted to Catholicism. The list for those going the other direction is devastatingly short.
This is why I think we are seeing, and will continue to see even more, protestant thinkers converting to Catholicism. Protestantism is running its course. All the protest is getting tired. And they are running out of places to find answers that don’t lead them deep into Church history, back to the ancient liturgy, and into the intellectual tradition that ultimately leads to one place: Rome.
Protestantism has drifted far enough away from orthodox Christianity that it can now look back at the trees and recognize the forest. And if you’re not entirely in the Catholic Church, that just might be the next best place to be…
“There are two ways of getting home; and one of them is to stay there. The other is to walk round the whole world till we come back to the same place; and I tried to trace such a journey in a story I once wrote. It is, however, a relief to turn from that topic to another story that I never wrote. Like every book I never wrote, it is by far the best book I have ever written. It is only too probable that I shall never write it, so I will use it symbolically here; for it was a symbol of the same truth. I conceived it as a romance of those vast valleys with sloping sides, like those along which the ancient White Horses of Wessex are scrawled along the flanks of the hills. It concerned some boy whose farm or cottage stood on such a slope, and who went on his travels to find something, such as the effigy and grave of some giant; and when he was far enough from home he looked back and saw that his own farm and kitchen-garden, shining flat on the hill-side like the colours and quarterings of a shield, were but parts of some such gigantic figure, on which he had always lived, but which was too large and too close to be seen. That, I think, is a true picture of the progress of any really independent intelligence today; and that is the point of this book.
The point of this book, in other words, is that the next best thing to being really inside Christendom is to be really outside it. ” - G. K. Chesterton (Everlasting Man)
Check your FReepmail when you have time.
What she volunteered wasn't, somehow, enough?
What is truly despicable is the one who will defend the guilty to accuse the innocent.
Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:
Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.
We are lucky to have them. The ones who find their way to us are smart and faith-filled enough to continue to go wherever Truth takes them. They are thinking believers. God bless them! They bring new fire and fervor to our Church.
The ones who leave are the lukewarm, the disgruntled, the obstinate, the willful, the ignorant, and the selfish. Perhaps they will be happy in their new church.
We will be waiting for them and praying for them.
Actually, most people I have spoken with @ my church left the RCC due to its doctrine of Justification (or the lack of it), not divorce.
Nice language on #4, verga. How does both bitter water and sweet water come from the same spring?
GailA, this is not accurate. You could have left your husband in the Catholic Church and lived separate from him. As long as you remained chaste, you would be welcome in any Catholic Church and could receive Communion. However, your marriage was still viewed as a marriage bond since no man can put it asunder. You could have asked the Church to study your situation and perhaps they would have granted you an annulment- meaning study reveals that God was not part of your marriage vows because of some deep defect in one of you that prevented you from validly taking the vow.
Without the annulment, the Church would have to view your marriage as valid and your new relationship would be considered adultery. It would be for this public sin that you would be held accountable.
You may have been one of those Catholics who a) got bad advice, b) didn’t know too much about your Church, or c) did not like the rules when applied to you.
Whatever your reasons, your post about the Catholic Church’s position is not accurate.
The Catholic Church teaches that Jesus "opened" the gates, or door, to heaven, by his death on the cross. Yes, the Catholic Church teaches that God took on human flesh and died to "get me into heaven", but they teach I must also "merit" this beatific grace through my good deeds and through partaking of the sacraments of the Catholic Church.
Do you agree with me that the Catholic Church teaches that the justified man or woman is not merely a pardoned criminal, but an adopted son or daughter of God, part of his family and his household?
I would say they may teach this but prove by their further definitions of "justified", that they do not believe 'grace' means what I believe it means. For example, if they truly believed that we are "pardoned" and become the adopted children of God by faith, then how can they not believe in "once saved always saved"? How could we become unborn again? We are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise "until the day of redemption", so to send us to hell after we are born again would mean he would go with us into hell for eternity.
Do you agree with me that the Catholic Church teaches that God loved you enough that, after dying that humiliating death, and making you his daughter by adoption, he gave himself, Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity to you as food for the journey?
When I accepted the gift of eternal life God gave me by grace through faith, he indwelled me with his own Holy Spirit. He IS part of me and I am part of his body always. When I participate in the Lord's Supper, or Communion, I am showing my faith by doing this in remembrance of his sacrifice for me. I do not need him to be re-sacrificed over and over for my sins because he by ONE sacrifice has perfected us forever. He never leaves us or forsakes us.
If you don't agree with me that Catholicism teaches those things, then you left something you never understood.
I understand very well what Catholicism teaches, I studied it, and I still learn more all the time. I put myself through Bible College because I wanted to know the Scriptures.
If do agree with me that Catholicism teaches those things, then what further "assurance of salvation" could anyone possibly want?
No Catholic I have ever talked to has ever said they "know" they are going to heaven when they die. They will say they "hope" they will but admit that they think nobody can know for sure. This is the result of teaching faith AND works for salvation. It muddies up the gospel of grace and ultimately it boils down to human merit in order to be saved.
Not surprising that your paragon of truth and objectivity publically endorsed Obama for President and was fired from the National Review and is now writing what amounts to a gossip column for Tina Brown... Alex, have you no pride?
Patently not true.
"But when we hear that 54 percent of American Catholics voted for President Obama last November, and that this somehow shows a sea change in their social thinking, we can reasonably ask: How many of them practice their faith on a regular basis? And when we do that, we learn that most practicing Catholics actually voted for Senator McCain." - Archbishop Charles Chaput.
Interesting that the years you cited in your chart are the same years that Ronald Reagan voted Democrat.
usually in cases of abuse an annulment can be granted and your 2nd marriage would be licit if you should decide to come back home to the catholic church.
When you talk about someone, you’re supposed to use enough FReeper etiquette and ping them.
And GailA volunteered nothing that indicated that she knew beforehand that he was abusive.
Point number two in verga’s post was pure speculation on his part. It was totally uncalled for, so, yes, he did accuse her of something of which her had no knowledge, blaming her for marrying a man she knew was abusive. And it remains despicable that he would blame the victim.
I know someone who decided to become Catholic after being raised somewhat Baptist. What she told me made her want to be was the church not backing down. I’ve never believed that most people seek religious fellowship in order to be told how wonderful they are in all their worldliness.
Way too many Catholic FReeprs on this forum reinforce on a daily basis my decision to leave the Catholic church. They are no different than the Catholics I grew up with and worked with.
A more callous group of people claiming to be followers of Christ exists. There’s nothing more condescending and judgmental than a Catholic who thinks they’ve arrived. The whole religion fosters a superior to thou attitude.
As nothing has changed in their attitudes and words towards *outsiders*, nothing is going to change in my status.
sounds like the bible belt where the divorce rate and the rate of born agains are the highest....hmmm... do i see a pattern here?
And I thought that in the bible, divorce is wrong and forbidden.. I thought right...
I say to you, 7 whoever divorces his wife (unless the marriage is unlawful) and marries another commits adultery.”
Way too many Catholic FReeprs on this forum reinforce on a daily basis my decision to leave the Catholic church. They are no different than the Catholics I grew up with and worked with.
A more callous group of people claiming to be followers of Christ exists. There’s nothing more condescending and judgmental than a Catholic who thinks they’ve arrived. The whole religion fosters a superior to thou attitude.
As nothing has changed in their attitudes and words towards *outsiders*, nothing is going to change in my status.
That’s been a LOT of my experience too—but far worse hereon.
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