What's yer point?
Posted on 03/04/2011 12:17:51 PM PST by dangus
The Epistle of St. Jude cites the prophet Enoch:
14 Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: “Behold, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his saints 15 to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”Wait, WHAT prophet Enoch?
The Old Testament certainly does mention an Enoch. He was the father of Methusaleh, the longest-living man ever to walk the face of the Earth. Methusaleh drowned in the flood of Noah. Apparently, Enoch didn't. Some suppose Enoch didn't die. The bible says, "And Enoch walked with God: and he [was] not; for God took him." Whatever that means.
Strangely, however, the bible records not a word spoken by Enoch.
But, there IS, in fact, a book of Enoch. It's just not in the bible. At least, it's not in the Catholic, Protestant or most Orthodox bibles. Some suppose that's because it's full of dubious and fanciful passages, and the Church Fathers couldn't tell when the authentic parts of Enoch ended, and when the imaginative apocalyptic imagery began. We still have it, however, because the Ethiopian Church counts it among the books of the bible.
That passage from Jude comes from the first portion of Enoch, which reads:
Great fear and trembling shall seize them, even to the ends of the earth. The lofty mountains shall be troubled, and the exalted hills depressed, melting like a honeycomb in the flame. The earth shall be immerged, and all things which are in it perish; while judgment shall come upon all, even upon all the righteous:But to them shall he give peace: he shall preserve the elect, and towards them exercise clemency. Then shall all belong to God; be happy and blessed; and the splendour of the Godhead shall illuminate them. Behold, he comes with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon them, and destroy the wicked, and reprove all the carnal for everything which the sinful and ungodly have done, and committed against him
--Enoch 1:6-2:1
Enoch is a fascinating book for many other reasons. For instance, it foretold that Jesus' birth would be seventy generations after Enoch (10:15) , in exact agreement with the gospel of Luke (3:23-38)
Sadly, however, it's hard to tell how much of Enoch is genuine. Various leaders of the Dead Sea Scrolls project have claimed to see the book (or microfiche replica of it) in its entirety, but that it's held in private hands and so their claims cannot be verified. Such a claim is astounding, since Enoch gives great detail of the gospels.
Chapter 92 of Enoch is particularly fascinating (Enoch isn't THAT long; some chapters are but a single verse.), describing the history and future of Mankind as in eight weeks. Bad news, folks: The third millennium after the founding of the church isn't a happy one:
And during its [the 6th week's] completion He shall burn the house of dominion with fire, and all the race of the elect root shall be dispersed. Afterwards, in the seventh week, a perverse generation shall arise; abundant shall be its deeds, and all its deeds perverse. During its completion, the righteous shall be selected from the everlasting plant of righteousness; and to them shall be given the sevenfold doctrine of his whole creation.What's interesting is that Chapter 92 correctly pegs the founding of the Church (AD 30) as happening exactly 1000 years after King David's reign (970 BC), and that it describes 3,000 years from the founding of the Church until the coming of the Messiah, when most early Christians expected a quicker 2nd coming or that it would come 1000 years after the founding of the Church.
Finally, the last notable thing about the New Testament's citation of Enoch: So much for sola scriptura. Unless you use the Ethiopian canon.
What's yer point?
THANKS.
Still haven’t finished my 2nd read of the preferred translation.
Sorry.
We don't know for sure but I think old age would be a good guess. ☺
Anyway, Hebrew tradition holds that he died 7 days before the flood and his name marked his death as a harbinger of the destruction to come.
While not the only translation for each of the names, Chuck Missler has a wonderful teaching on the Gospel hidden in plain sight in the names of the Genesis patriarchs.
Yes, he did and his choice of retiring at 50 while continuing to live another 919 years on government pension is rumored to be the cause of the financial collapse of the original creation!
The book of Genesis claims the same thing!
Ya, where’d he get the idea Methuselah drowned... must-of been watching The History Channel.
I did not post that picture back to you....read the post I posted it back to...
Methuselah did not drown during the Flood. He died seven days before it started.
There was also a son of Qayin named Chanokh, after whom the first city was named.
So far as I know, there are two schools of thought on the "sons of G-d" and the "daughters of man." One is that it refers to intermarriage between the male descendants of Qayin (who were evil) with the female descendants of Shet (who were faithful).
Now, as for the question about fallen angels, I once asked that very question. I was puzzled because, according to traditional Jewish teaching, HaSatan is not a "fallen angel" but merely another of G-d's employees doing his job. Here is what I was told:
Two specific angels (I was given their names but do no remember them, unfortunately) asked HaShem why He didn't destroy mankind for his sinfulness. HaShem responded, "it is easy for you, being angels, to take a harsh view of man. But if you were flesh and blood you would also sin." The two angels immediately denied this, saying that they would never do such a thing. HaShem asked them "would you like to see? Would you like Me to give you bodies of flesh like man?" They said yes, and they would still resist temptation. HaShem granted their wish . . . but they were unable, in bodies of flesh, to resist temptation. So the "men of renown" were the descendants of those two enfleshed angels.
The moral of the story: no one can resist a babe!
BTW, I am now listening to Georgian language radio online. It isn't as pretty to listen to as it is to look at.
“Isn’t this date setting, which is supposed to be a no no?”
It’s not a “no-no” if God does it :P
“If Jude quoted the apocryphal book, he was affirming only the truth of that prophecy and not endorsing the book in its entirety (cf. Paul’s quotation of the Cretan poet Epimenides, in Titus 1:12).”
This is a dig in Greece and that is just one picture. There are many more pictures of these giants. Then there are other pictures from others parts of the world of giant bones much like this picture. I was shocked when I saw these pictures. I knew there were giants...but this large....yikes. Josephus wrote their screams were awful and were cannibals....
“So the “men of renown” were the descendants of those two enfleshed angels.”
Interesting take. How does that theory explain the post-flood giants though? Did those two angels escape wrath long enough to fornicate some more after the waters receded?
“I read an account of people digging up a “mound” and finding several 7 foot tall skeletons in the mound with beads and other artifacts. It was written in the early 1800’s!”
I’ve read the same thing; the problem is, the only places you can find that story are all quoting the same source, with no verifiable attribution. In fact, they all have the same set of “giant evidence” stories, and none of them are really verifiable.
The one story in that list I was able to track down, was of the giant femur found in Turkey in the early 20th century. The list shows a picture, claiming it is the actual femur, and that it is housed in a Creationist museum. The truth, however, is that what is shown in the picture is a sculptor’s recreation of the supposed femur, which was recreated solely on the basis of a single eyewitness’ claim. The actual bone, if it ever existed, apparently was lost.
I'm not sure what kind of "wrath" they angels faced (since they didn't "rebel" per se), but as to the post-Flood giants, `Og escaped the Flood by clinging onto the Ark and being fed via a window. He lived hundreds and hundreds of years (being killed by Moses), and so had plenty of time to sew his genes throughout the post-Flood world.
***Well, St. Jude seems to have regarded some portion of it as authentic,***
Perhaps Jude was just quoting from Enoch to make a point much as St Paul quoted pagan authors in his work. that does not make the pagan authors’ work holy writ.
I believe Clement quoted from the Illiad or Odessey of Homer in his letters.
***“I read an account of people digging up a “mound” and finding several 7 foot tall skeletons...”***
I remember seeing a 7 foot tall skeleton at Aztec Ruins in Aztec, NM back in 1955.
That skeleton has since been removed and stored when indian visitors complained.
I once asked about it on a much later visit and was told it was no longer for public display.
Maybe you should try digging in the NBA graveyard?
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