Posted on 05/21/2011 4:46:26 AM PDT by marbren
Camping is a victim of replacement theology. IMHO the lie of replacement theology is almost as insidious as idolatry. The key to holistic understanding of Bible prophecy is to understand the role of Israel in it. God keeps his promises to Israel. This is a model to the rest of us that he will keep his promises to us as well.
A majority of the church going world has been victimized. I believed the lie for 35 years. During the past 20 I have been seeking the truth and only recently did I stop saying IMHO replacement theology is a lie and replaced it with: Replacement theology is a lie dropping the IMHO. For those that do not know, Replacement theology is the lie that the Church has replaced Israel in God’s plan.
The church was polluted by Replacement theology early on. Origen and Augustine, early Fathers of the church, were the first to muddy up the scriptures in this way when they arrogantly took on the mantle of Israel for themselves. Martin Luther apparently did not study it and this lead to his anti-Semitism and Hitler. In many ways IMHO it is like a reverse of the circumcision party that led to Acts 15.
This replacement theology lie has lead to the church we have today. Everyone is running around not knowing what is happening in these end times we are in. The truth is The Church, the Bride of Christ, has a role and Israel has a role. Think of men and women, children and parents, husbands and wives, angels and people, dogs and cats, sheep and goats, wheat and tares. All these have roles God invented.
So the solution: Open your Bible, drop your preconceived notions and open your mind, ask God to reveal the truth about all this Israel stuff written in the Bible. The Lord Jesus Christ is central in it all. Gods Grace and Mercy is incredible, He does all the work. Faith and hope and love permeate the entire Bible and the greatest of these is love.
BtW, after you got all excited about having LCMSers for ‘tough questions’, 250 or so posts ago, I have 5 pages of questions to you, that you haven’t answered. Nice communication there. One might think the questions were too tough.
In my daily born again relationship walk with my Lord Jesus Christ, also known as the sanctification process, given that I am born again therefore justified, decisions are made. I can follow my will or decide to die to self and do the Lord's will. If I follow my will I am controlled by the flesh and a slave to sin. If I follow My Lord's will I am a slave to Christ and free indeed. Now lets say I follow my will and think it is the Lord's will but it is not. My experience has shown me that the Lord has ways of putting me back on the right path, and I am grateful for the discipline. This is the neat thing about the real time in the NOW intimate relationship with my Lord Jesus Christ. LCMS founder Walther got the Holy Spirit stopped working miracles back in the first century doctrine wrong.
Back to my LCMS experience. After talking to P#4 today The main problem may be the DP. Best construction for the rest of the Synod folks is that DP gave them bad information in his cover up of his illegal actions.
I've got to see a source link where Walther said the Holy Spirit stopped doing miracles. Or where he limited the work of the Holy Spirit in any way. This claim doesn't pass the smell test. While you can make that assertion, something like this requires a proof.
In my daily born again relationship walk with my Lord Jesus Christ, also known as the sanctification process, given that I am born again therefore justified, decisions are made. I can follow my will or decide to die to self and do the Lord's will. If I follow my will I am controlled by the flesh and a slave to sin.
Which makes you no different than any other baptized Christian. Except perhaps that the others may give all the credit to God for the transformation since it IS a gift in the NOW.
sanctification process
Thankfully, you recognize it as a process in this life.
You are learning after all. Sinners abound in the LCMS, how surprising.
xone, I found it in the LCMS RIM Document you posted earlier in the thread. BTW Happy Pentecost everyone!
In a sermon on 1 Corinthians 12:l-11, Synod's first president(note: marbren thinks this is Walther) stated in regard to the gifts of the Spirit: However, we must make a twofold distinction concerning the gifts of apostolic times which the apostle names in our text. He mentions nine gifts. Four of them have now disappeared completely from the Christian Church; the other five are still found among believers, though to a lesser degree. Completely gone are the gifts of healing without the use of medicine, the gift of performing miracles, the gift of speaking foreign languages without previous study and practice, and finally the gift of interpreting those languages which one never learned. That is not the case with the other five gifts mentioned by the apostle, with the gift of speaking by the Spirit of wisdom and knowledge, with the gift of prophesying, that is, explaining Scripture, with the gift of a particularly great, strong, and heroic faith, and finally with the gift of discerning spirits. As we stated, these last gifts the Christians of apostolic times had in a greater degree than the Christians of today; however, these and similar gifts are found even now to a certain degree in the Church.12
I agree we are all poor miserable sinners, beggars for grace in need of a Savior.
Quix, talking to P#4 today he gave me some insight as to the reason God allows all the denominational, institutional religious stuff in Christianity.
It is a weed wheat idea. The self righteous moral policemen religious ones are the weeds and they grow with the wheat( The true universal church that transcends divisions and denominations and has true unity) to keep it strong. The constant persecution of the wheat by the weeds helps us become over comers. There was also something about how in farming wheat the weeds protect the wheat some how from the winds. Not sure I see the analogy yet, I try to get clarification if I remember.
Interesting idea.
Thx.
Thank you for sharing that excerpt, dear brother in Christ!
Completely gone are the gifts of healing without the use of medicine, the gift of performing miracles, the gift of speaking foreign languages without previous study and practice, and finally the gift of interpreting those languages which one never learned.
Know any human doing these?
Wow, interesting, your comment made me pause and think. I have had several God given miracles in my life that usually come from an urgent need of the moment. God is always there in my experience.
Know any human doing these?
There are many cases today where God has given humans spiritual gifts. Let us focus on one, for instance, for discussion. The gift of healing.
I have not personally witnessed, except through the media, a faith healing by a faith healing ministry for instance, but they do exist. I do not have the gift of healing but I am sure that even on FR we could find someone who does. People today, in third world countries especially, have even risen from the dead. My preconceived notions and LCMS doctrine interpretation do not limit God in what he can and does do today.
Like this:
Acts 9:
The Healing of Aeneas 32Now as Peter went here and there among them all, he came down also to the saints who lived at Lydda. 33There he found a man named Aeneas, bedridden for eight years, who was paralyzed. 34And Peter said to him, "Aeneas, Jesus Christ heals you; rise and make your bed." And immediately he rose. 35 And all the residents of Lydda and Sharon saw him, and they turned to the Lord.
Re: faith healing, is that the same as the Apostles? Does the person you refer to heal them as above? 3rd world risen from the dead? Really, considering it is the third world were they dead, or beyond the medical scope of the area?
My preconceived notions and LCMS doctrine interpretation do not limit God in what he can and does do today.
Neither does LCMS doctrine limit what GOD can do, God can heal miraculously at any time. Man isn't given that gift as in the days of the Apostles. My preconceived notions have nothing to do with it. Again I say, prove it. Anecdotal evidence isn't evidence, get something a solid as the Scripture accounts. Don't have it, no real surprise.
Whether one experiences it or not, or senses it or not, God is always there.
Romans 8:28
28And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
A wonderful verse, thanks for posting it.
I don't deal in fictions, too many variables that change at will, when resolving an issue, the goal posts are then moved. I would address the one fiction I see however: your use of 'pharisee' and 'weeds' to describe the opponents in this 'fiction'. I know the context and the origin of the words, but what is humorous is that you, despite engaging in the same types of behavior are not lumped in with that group as well. You say you aren't a pharisee or a weed because you aren't. Yet your behavior, posting content and lack of openness, does little to indicate that. I am left with the old: "Am I gonna believe you, or my lying eyes.?"
How much is compromise with weeds the current reality of the LCMS? Is it a problem?
I reject your premise, however if you are asking whether one should compromise with other Christian sinners, yes, to the extent that Truth isn't discarded, God's Word isn't compromised, the Sacraments are made available administered in a proper fashion.
The reason it is fictional is because I have not decided yet what kind of book to write or if I will. Do you believe every church has weeds and wheat? Are the Dana Carvey moral policeman church ladies I am talking about the wheat and my part of the schism, along with P#4, the weeds? Remember a tree is known by its fruits. I am talking here about observed fictional factual behavior.
If by that you mean true believers and current non-believers and that only God knows the difference, of course, my turn: can the weeds become wheat through repentance? If so, how should they be treated when encountered?
observed fictional factual behavior
Indeed! So which is it? Did anyone confront your DP according to Matt 18? Did you, did Pastor #4? If not, how can you explain your lack of following Scriptural church discipline?
Remember a tree is known by its fruits.
It is true, so what of the marbren tree on this thread? Accused a brother of heterodoxy without proof. Accused brothers of being pharisaical and 'weeds' within the Body of Christ again without proof. Accused a church body of promoting ant-semitism and further, making HIM an anti-semite, the first part without proof or witnesses. Accused this failing by the same church body of complicity, upon discovery, of turning him into a drunkard. Accused a former pastor of denying the power and work of the Holy Spirit and as proof, offering something that fell far short of the mark. Attempted to use the Holy Spirit as a talisman to discern whether to write a book.
Now that is just the negatives, but also we've heard how you are the 'wheat', how you live out you baptism daily etc. Everything but your tithe. Overcoming the same that the Apostle Paul struggled to. No references to the Grace of God connected to the posting of these achievements.
Yes, marbren, the words of Luke 18:11-12 echo thunderously through this thread. They are your words. What to do? Take up that unused mirror and use it. Repent and be absolved. Forgive as you would have God forgive you.
To me judging, (AKA the log in my eye), is when I think I am better than someone else. Here is a truth, we are all the same. We are all poor miserable sinners in need of a savior. Pharisees and sons of the devil do exist and they are known by their fruit. They think they are better than someone else, they are self righteous, they are weeds they live to control others. Only when the log is taken out of our eye through God's grace can we see to take the speck out of our brothers eye.
The key is to love everyone as they are and not try to control or change them. The only one we can have a bit of influence in changing is ourselves. The Holy Spirit is responsible for everyone else. Loving others means our desire for everyone is to grow in faith in The Lord Jesus Christ.
Now observed actions and behavior are facts not judging. The best construction is always put on actions and behavior.
Rules and standards and constitutions are important.
One problem is the DP lorded over P#4. This was pointed out using Matthew 18 in a private discussion of the proper roles of the Pastor as pointed out in the book of Concord, our church constitution and synod procedure. I was there to witness the discussion between P#4 and DP. The DP was lost and had no response.
Using LCMS rules, what is the proper role for a DP in a conflict between a Pastor and a group of church members?
Not so, there are many manifest behaviors that are manifestly wrong. To point that out isn't judging by your own set of values, but using God's Word. In effect you aren't judging someone's action in this case you are pointing out that God already has.
The key is to love everyone as they are and not try to control or change them.
Why have the Law if we are not to change? The Law convicts us and shows our need for a Savior.
Now observed actions and behavior are facts not judging. The best construction is always put on actions and behavior.
And yet, here we are. You aren't judging 'fact', you are judging outcomes and intents. To imply you aren't means there can be NO possible reason for any action you observed, other than the ones to which you have attached some sort of malice.
One problem is the DP lorded over P#4. This was pointed out using Matthew 18 in a private discussion of the proper roles of the Pastor as pointed out in the book of Concord, our church constitution and synod procedure. I was there to witness the discussion between P#4 and DP. The DP was lost and had no response.
Example please of the 'lording it over'. Did the DP have no one with him? After this occured then what did you do? Did you involve the Circuit Counselor? Did you go to the Synod?
Using LCMS rules, what is the proper role for a DP in a conflict between a Pastor and a group of church members?
Again with the rules. The DP should moderate the situation and try to bring it to an amicable conclusion. Not always possible. Apparently he failed at this so he is a bad guy for not backing the pastor? The pastor isn't always right, even though you think in this case he is. The DP has a broader responsibility and the two church solution is probably it in a case of irreconcilable differences. Though with the lack of information it is hard to make a case either way.
Right now I sense I am going to step back a bit on the book project, or maybe this FR book conversation experiment. I was wise not to name names and keep it fiction for now. If there is going to be a book God will write one. I do regret that I might be leaving you hanging and you may never hear my story on this side of the river Jordan.
Thanks again for your responses to my questions and posts and God Bless You!
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