Skip to comments.The Church Built on Peter
Posted on 06/29/2011 5:46:53 AM PDT by Not gonna take it anymore
After St. Peter died upside down on a cross in the Circus of Caligula and Nero, the surviving Christians obtained his body and buried him quickly nearby, on the steeply sloping Vatican Hill to the north of the Circus. That hill had become a makeshift graveyard four months earlier after the fire of Rome had killed so many residents of the metropolis that their loved ones began to use any open spot they could find on the roadsides radiating outside the city. . . .
When the tropaion of Peter was found underneath the high altar during archaeological escavations in 1941, there was great rejoicing, because it matched what Gaius had written at the end of the second century. Even more exciting was the fact that they found bones in what was clearly Peters tomb underneath the victory monument.
(Excerpt) Read more at integratedcatholiclife.org ...
Interesting. Thanks for posting.
Are you disputing the words of Jesus?
15 When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord; you know that I love you." He said to him, "Feed my lambs."
16 A second time he said to him, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord; you know that I love you." He said to him, "Tend my sheep."
17 He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, "Do you love me?" And he said to him, "Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you." Jesus said to him, "Feed my sheep.
By what name did Jesus always address Simon (Peter)?
When you the founding fathers words or their own catechism to refute what they are saying they tend to get personal or attempt to get demeaning also I have found.
Acts 15:12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them. 13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me: 14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. 15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, 16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: 17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. 18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. 19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
You mean his "Pebbliness"? :)
We know that Jesus was a master orator and wordsmith in the tradition (!!!) of rabbis. I think that, in light of many of Christ's teachings and parables being on several levels, Peter was nicknamed small rock in comparison to Jesus being big rock. IOW, Peter is small to Jesus, but is to act in the role of leader when the big and authentic leader has departed (the keys, the keys).
I think that many times people miss all the levels of meaning that Jesus taught to us and the various combinations of copying and translations have taken away some of those meanings or lessened their understandability.
Jesus probably spoke in Aramaic, although most people in the Roman empire spoke koine Greek also. The point is, the gospel was written in Greek, so when Matthew had a choice of using petra or petros I believe the Holy Spirit made the choice of words.
Peter was certainly the most colorful...It could be that Peter was the only one who kept falling off both sides of the fence and he made a good example for Jesus to teach us about...
Or it could be what the Church teaches. Most likely it is. Judas fell off the fence and is treated in appropriate fashion.
You keep saying that Paul was only sent to the Gentiles. Why then, if you examine Paul's life, did he spend most of his time with the Jews? And Peter?
I don't argue with God like you do...
Gal 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
Gal 2:8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)
You admit again that you believe that Paul is God (and by extension, Jesus is not).
Peter was given the keys, and charged by Jesus to 'feed My sheep'. Nobody else was.
That charge was given to all the Apostles...And then to the disciples, bishops, pastors, etc...
Where? Chapter and verse, please. Where was anyone else given the keys?
And Catholicism is not a religion; we have the Faith handed down from the Apostles which was given to them from Jesus.
Weird statement...Faith comes from Jesus Christ to the individual Christian...Not thru anyone, even the apostles...
This is why we say that you keep telling us that you are not Christian. It is only weird to non Christians. Here is a verse from the Nicene Creed:
"We believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church."
"Apostolic" here means that the Church believes in its origin and beliefs as rooted in the teachings of the Apostles of Jesus. All Christians will accept "Apostolic" to mean that there is continuity in the church's teachings from the apostles throughout history, not just in the first century, or prior to the fourth.
Hardly...I'm denying the divinity of your religion's Holy Father, your pope...
Nobody claims divinity of any Pope. But only non Christians deny the divinity of Christ and the Holy Spirit - which you do on a regular basis, while elevating Paul to the status of God.
James was the bishop of Jersalem. Peter was the leader of the bishops. It is quite plain from Acts 2 onward.
err Iscool, perhaps it's new to you but to us Christians, the Holy Spirit is God
Remember that Iscool tells us that he doesn't believe what he believes and that he alternatively finds God to be God the Father only, or else a diune subordinationist modalist God of the Supreme Father and the meek and mild Son, with the Holy Spirit as an inanimate robot messager who wanders around doing God's bidding.
Or so thinks the RCC. They also think that a person needs to be subject to the Pope to be saved.
Or so thinks the RCC.
So thinks anyone with understanding of the New Testament.
They also think that a person needs to be subject to the Pope to be saved.
Let us what the truth actually is:
Salvation outside the Church
The Catechism of the Catholic Church, following historic Christian theology since the time of the early Church Fathers, refers to the Catholic Church as "the universal sacrament of salvation" (CCC 774776), and states: "The Church in this world is the sacrament of salvation, the sign and the instrument of the communion of God and men" (CCC 780).
Many people misunderstand the nature of this teaching.
Indifferentists, going to one extreme, claim that it makes no difference what church one belongs to. Certain radical traditionalists, going to the other extreme, claim that unless one is a full-fledged, baptized member of the Catholic Church, one will be damned.
The following quotations from the Church Fathers give the straight story. They show that the early Church held the same position on this as the contemporary Church doesthat is, while it is normatively necessary to be a Catholic to be saved (see CCC 846; Vatican II, Lumen Gentium 14), there are exceptions, and it is possible in some circumstances for people to be saved who have not been fully initiated into the Catholic Church (CCC 847).
Notice that the same Fathers who declare the normative necessity of being Catholic also declare the possibility of salvation for some who are not Catholics.
These can be saved by what later came to be known as "baptism of blood" or " baptism of desire" (for more on this subject, see the Fathers Know Best tract, The Necessity of Baptism).
The Fathers likewise affirm the possibility of salvation for those who lived before Christ and who were not part of Israel, the Old Testament People of God.
However, for those who knowingly and deliberately (that is, not out of innocent ignorance) commit the sins of heresy (rejecting divinely revealed doctrine) or schism (separating from the Catholic Church and/or joining a schismatic church), no salvation would be possible until they repented and returned to live in Catholic unity.
Thanks to: http://www.catholic.com/library/Salvation_Outside_the_Church.asphttp://www.catholic.com/library/Salvation_Outside_the_Church.asp
If you actually quote the Catechism correctly, you will also be correct.
So its not just Jesus death and resurrection and belief in Him that saves but the RCC also. Got it. I guess the scripture that says believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved-and your house forgot to mention membership in the RCC.
No one knows that...The scripture says Peter commanded them to get baptized...It does not say Peter baptized them...
Then why do you call your popes Holy Father???
Odd, I guess that you either did not read or understand my post. The Bible and the Catechism state what they state quite adequately. May I ask in what way I should communicate in order to convey that understanding?
You are correct. So now you are saying that Peter had the authority to command people to be baptized. Odd. Since Peter was not a disciple of your god Paul, why would you be championing him?
St. Paul describes himself as "father" in that he is bringing the Gospel to his spiritual children. He calls himself that several times during his epistles.
819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth" are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements." Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church.
838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter." Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."
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