Posted on 10/22/2011 7:56:36 AM PDT by Blind Eye Jones
Adriane Thatcher has written a book (Savage Text) where in he offers an argument for the acceptance of homosexuality in the Christian church. His argument runs along the lines that we should look at the passages that condemn homosexuality as savage text (text that renders scripture holy) – in the same way we should look to passages in the Old Testament that show God’s predilection for child killing, his wrath and vengeful wars against local tribes as savage text. These texts should not be used by the church because they contradict the loving character and message of Jesus. It should be reminded that the Bible is not the Word of God, but a witness to The Word of God. To elevate these passages as the Word of God or use the Bible as a guide book approach is bibliolatry: to make the Bible into a false idol. Jesus (as the fulfillment of the Old Testament) ultimately provides the standard by which we should judge homosexuals and minorities. Jesus would not condemn homosexuality because he is the God of Love and preaches love, compassion and inclusivity.
I am taking a course that will be using Adrian Thatcher’s book and looking for ideas that will counter this argument. Thanks.
Here is a review of his book:
http://www.relegere.org/index.php/bct/article/viewFile/274/257
Absolutely right!
Thank you!
Good point and you made me laugh!
So true!
Thanks for the quotes and good questions: “Who gets to judge which words to accept and which ones to reject?” Is it that each person gets to make that decision? Or is it that each person can pretend he has the right to make such decisions, and can pay for his error later, when he faces the true Judge?
We can only hope God is merciful of our ignorance which I suspect he is due to his loving nature. True we don`t have infinite minds to comprehend the full truth and that is the reason for faith, in part. And I think God has given us a mind to wrestle with these issues and help us see ourselves within this plight and to see the beauty of his creation. It is staggering, wondrous and humbling to behold.
Alright!
I’ve got a rebuttal for that. Jesus defined marriage as male and female in Matthew 19:4-6.
“And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.”
As for any sexual activity that’s not in that relationship sanctioned by God, He would have called it fornication:
“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,” Mark 7:21
Therefore in this way Jesus DID speak about homosexual behavior and not in a way the “gay” activists like.
It depends on what you mean by “law.” It is generally agreed that the Apostles, acting under Jesus’ commandments and the guidance of the Holy Spirit, did away with the ritual laws.
There are hundreds of ritual laws, of which among the most prominent is the obligation for men to be circumcised.
At the Council of Jerusalem, the Apostles determined that the ritual laws need no longer be followed. The gentiles did not need to be circumcised. Christians need not refrain from eating pork. And so on.
But the Ten Commandments remained valid, along with other moral laws and customs. For instance, Jesus made it harder for Christians to get divorced.
Of course the laws are now supposed to be followed through love, of God and neighbor. But I’m not sure that wasn’t the idea earlier, although perhaps some Pharisees who appear in the N.T. seem to have forgotten it.
Thanks, I`ve learned what a red letter Christian is today.
Right on!
Right on!
I didn`t know that — thanks for posting.
Your post makes perfect sense. For example, Jesus is always drinking wine — Oh, Oh, savage text against teetotalers!
Right on!
`Jesus didn’t come to Earth to be your buddy` — LOL
Homosexual acts are both sinful AND disordered.
Any Christian suffers from temptations. He should try to resist them. Or, if he gives way and falls, then he needs to repent and seek forgiveness.
Yes, there is a similarity between a Christian homosexual who feels sexual temptations and tries to resist them, or a heterosexual who feels sexual temptations and tries to resist them. In both cases, what they feel is temptation, and if they fail to resist it, then they commit sin.
But homosexuality is ALSO a disorder. A normal person doesn’t feel sexual temptations toward a person of their own sex.
And it’s unnatural, because it has no role to play in the propagation of the species, or the production of children.
Homosexuality used to be listed in the standard psychiatric manuals. That is not authoritative in itself for Christians, but it was the traditional way that Christians thought about homosexuality. Then, of course, the gay activist movement came along, and psychiatrists removed it from their manuals. Now it was perfectly normal and O.K. But frankly, that is not really true.
This means that homosexuals suffer an extra burden in life, and may have a harder time of it. The same is true of those who are born with physical defects. For whatever reason, God has given them those defects to test them; or nature has failed and given them those defects. Such defects are not sinful, obviously, but they do make it harder for those who have them. But if they manage to handle it and rise above the difficulties, then they become stronger and better persons than they might otherwise have been.
If someone is born blind or deaf, you don’t hate them for it. Indeed, if they cope with it, you admire them. Defect is one thing, sin is quite another. But concerning the matter of homosexuals as Christians, but should be considered and recognized. Normal people can enjoy sexual relations without sin—by marrying and having children. Homosexuals do not have that particular resolution, and need to try to change or abstain.
Sex of all sorts in the pews, free Ecstasy so everyone can experience the warm glow of the spirit, and free abortions in the basement. That's where the non-Catholic Christian church in this country is headed, right back to the pagan temples of the pre-Christian era with huge numbers of those who once called themselves Catholic "seeing the light" and joining such temples to enjoy the blessings of being free from tradition and of interpreting Scriptures for themselves.
Arguing with God. Certainly a losing proposition.
I understand your point, CynicalBear, and---I have to repeat this, lest somebody misunderstand---I completely agree that the so-called "Gay Theologians" are in error. However, here's some typical comment on those Scriptures, in the manner of the self-described Evangelical "Gay Christian":
| Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. |
Gay Christian: The judgments against “abominations” in the Old Testament do not apply in the New Testament. Here are examples of things called ”abominations” in the OT:
Leviticus 11:10 Eating shellfish (“all that have not fins or scales, which move in the waters,they are an abomination”)
Leviticus 11:13 Eating birds of prey (“They shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray”)
Leviticus 11:42 Eating creeping things (“things that creep upon the earth, them ye shall not eat; for they are an abomination.”)
Deuteronomy 22:5 Women wearing pants (“The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God’).
Deuteronomy 24:4 A husband re-marrying a wife he had previously divorced (“Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD.”)
Deuteronomy 25:16 Anyone who violates anything in chapter 25, e.g. refusal to sire children by your brother’s widow: (“For all that do such things, and all that do unrighteously, are an abomination unto the LORD thy God.”)
Ezekiel 18:13 Requiring interest to be paid on a loan (“He hath loaned at interest and taken a profit: shall he then live? He shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him.”)
Ezekiel 44:7 Allowing uncircumcised people into the sanctuary ”In that ye have brought into my sanctuary strangers, uncircumcised in heart, and uncircumcised in flesh, to be in my sanctuary, to pollute it, even my house, when ye offer my bread, the fat and the blood, and they have broken my covenant because of all your abominations.”)
All these practices, called ”abominations” in the Old Law, are no longer forbidden in the New.
The best arguments against homosexual acts continue to be scientific ones.
For example:
In order for a pregnancy to be successful and not rejected by the mother as something foreign to the body, sperm and seminal fluid suspend the immune system in a small way to allow pregnancy to take place.
When these things are repeatedly introduced into the digestive system, by both hetero and homosexuals. The results are things like HIV and HPV.
It’s an easy link to make and to understand.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.