Posted on 10/27/2011 4:05:56 PM PDT by rzman21
ST. CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA (Alt)
St. Clement of Alexandria studied under Pantaenus. He later succeeded him as the director of the school of catechumens in Alexandria, Egypt around the year 200 A.D.,
“The Blood of the Lord, indeed, is twofold. There is His corporeal Blood, by which we are redeemed from corruption; and His spiritual Blood, that with which we are anointed. That is to say, to drink the Blood of Jesus is to share in His immortality. The strength of the Word is the Spirit just as the blood is the strength of the body. Similarly, as wine is blended with water, so is the Spirit with man. The one, the Watered Wine, nourishes in faith, while the other, the Spirit, leads us on to immortality. The union of both, however, - of the drink and of the Word, - is called the Eucharist, a praiseworthy and excellent gift. Those who partake of it in faith are sanctified in body and in soul. By the will of the Father, the divine mixture, man, is mystically united to the Spirit and to the Word.”,
-”The Instructor of the Children”. [2,2,19,4] ante 202 A.D.,
“The Word is everything to a child: both Father and Mother, both Instructor and Nurse. ‘Eat My Flesh,’ He says, ‘and drink My Blood.’ The Lord supplies us with these intimate nutrients. He delivers over His Flesh, and pours out His Blood; and nothing is lacking for the growth of His children. O incredible mystery!”,
-”The Instructor of the Children” [1,6,41,3] ante 202 A.D.. ,
Origen Homilies on Exodus 13,3:
I wish to admonish you with examples from your religion. You are accustomed to take part in the divine mysteries, so you know, when you received the body of the Lord, you reverently exercised every care lest a particle of it fall, and lest anything of the consecrated gift perish. You account yourselves guilty, and rightly do you so believe, if any of it be lost through negligence. but if you observe such cation in keeping His Body, and properly so, how is it that you think neglecting the word of God a lesser crime than neglecting His Body?
Tertullian -
“because their fast were to be broken if they received the Body of our LORD”
YEP, sounds like a good Baptist to me.
Athanasius was even a little tougher.
“For virtues and vices are the food of the soul, and it can eat either of these two meats, and incline to either of the two, according to its own will. If it is bent toward virtue, it will be nourished by virtues, by righteousness, by temperance, by meekness, by fortitude, as Paul saith; ‘Being nourished by the word of truth.’ Such was the case with our Lord, who said, ‘My meat is to do the will of My Father which is in heaven.’ But if it is not thus with the soul, and it inclines downwards, it is then nourished by nothing but sin. For thus the Holy Ghost, describing sinners and their food, referred to the devil when He said, ‘I have given him to be meat to the people of Aethiopia.’ For this is the food of sinners. And as our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, being heavenly bread, is the food of the saints, according to this; ‘Except ye eat My flesh, and drink My blood;’ so is the devil the food of the impure, and of those who do nothing which is of the light, but work the deeds of darkness. Therefore, in order to withdraw and turn them from vices, He commands them to be nourished with the food of virtue; namely, humbleness of mind, lowliness to endure humiliations, the acknowledgment of God.” -Athanasius, Festal Letters of Athanasius, Festal Letter 1.5
Of course can’t forget about Jerome.
“…who forbids us to think of the morrow; who, though He is said to have hungered and thirsted, and to have gone frequently to various meals, except in celebrating the mystery whereby He represented His passion, or in proving the reality of His body is nowhere described as ministering to His appetite…” -Jerome, Against Jovinanius 2.17
Let me know if that’s enough. I do have more.
where are the quotes of Tertullian, Origen and Clement condemning the Catholic doctrine of the Real Presence?
there aren’t any because they were Catholic and held the Catholic Faith.
Wait, are you trying to point out to me that there was not unanimous consent of the fathers? Doesn’t that mess up some things for the teaching of the RCC?
LOL there WAS NO ROMAN CATHOLIC DOCTRINE then..
Clement of Alexandria (150-211/216 A.D.) also called the bread and wine symbols of the body and blood of Christ, and taught that the communicant received not the physical but the spiritual life of Christ
. Athanasius was born in Alexandria ca. 295 A.D. He was ordained a deacon in 319 A.D. He accompanied his bishop, Alexander, to the Council of Nicaea, where he served as his secretary. Eventually he succeeded Alexander as Bishop of Alexandria. He is most known for defending Nicene doctrine against Arian disputes.,
“’The great Athanasius in his sermon to the newly baptized says this:’ You shall see the Levites bringing loaves and a cup of wine, and placing them on the table. So long as the prayers of supplication and entreaties have not been made, there is only bread and wine. But after the great and wonderful prayers have been completed, then the bread is become the Body, and the wine the Blood, of our Lord Jesus Christ. ‘And again:’ Let us approach the celebration of the mysteries. This bread and this wine, so long as the prayers and supplications have not taken place, remain simply what they are. But after the great prayers and holy supplications have been sent forth, the Word comes down into the bread and wine - and thus His Body is confected.”,
-”Sermon to the Newly Baptized” ante 373 A.D.,
please continue, i never stop my opponent when he is making my case. You should have realized Athanasius was a Catholic and no suprise, held the Catholic Faith!!
see post #141.
the Catholic Church has been here for 2,000 and all these Fathers were in the Church. and it should be no suprise they all believed the Catholic Faith.
please continue to try and find Catholic Church Fathers who you think did not believe the Catholic Faith.
i am quite enjoying this.
what some fail to realize that if anyone didn’t not believe the Eucharist was the Body of Christ, this would have been major heresy and cause for excommunication. history tells us there was no dispute on this in the Church Father age.
are you saying Clement believed that Christ could be divided into the physical and spiritual, so there are two Christ’s, not one?
it only gets better folks.
ROFL You forget that the “transubstantiation” stuff came after those church fathers? I do believe it wasn’t until the Council of Trent in 1551 that it was even defined what it was. If I remember right it wasn’t until Hildebert de Lavardin, Archbishop of Tours in 1133 or something that it was even spoken of. That’s not to say that there were not those before who may have believed such but surely there was no unanimous consent. I simply pointed out a few who did NOT believe the changing of bread into flesh but knew it to be “representation”, “spiritual”, “antitypes”, “metaphor” and “figurative”.
The Early Church Fathers on the Scriptures: The Four Gospels [Ecumenical]
The Early Church Fathers on the Scriptures: The Scriptures are one book in Christ [Ecumenical]
The Early Church Fathers on Scripture: The Nourishing Bread of Scripture [Ecumenical]
The Early Church Fathers on the Scriptures: Reading Scripture with the Early Church Fathers [Ecumenical]
Fathers of the Church
Abortion and the Early Church [Fathers] (Catholic & Orthodox Caucus)
Why do Catholics always talk about the Early Church Fathers (Apostolic Fathers)?[Ecumenical]
The Church Fathers' Marian Interpretation of the Old Testament (Catholic Caucus)
Writings of the Fathers of the Church
THE CHURCH FATHERS: A DOOR TO ROME (fundamentalist warns saying they sound too Catholic)
Were the Church Fathers Closer to Protestantism Than to Catholicism?
The Faith of Our Fathers
The Early Church Fathers on the Assumption [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
Look to the Church Fathers to Shed Light on Modern Problems, Writes the Pope
Origen: The Privileged Path to Knowing God Is Love
On Origen of Alexandria: He Was a True Teacher (April 25, 2007)
St. Clement of Alexandria: One of the Great Promoters of Dialogue Between Faith and Reason (April 18, 2007)
St. Irenaeus of Lyons: The First Great Theologian of the Church (March 28, 2007)
Early Church Fathers - Worship on Sabbath or Sunday
St. Justin Martyr: He Considered Christianity the “True Philosophy” (March 21, 2007)
Truly a Doctor of Unity (St. Ignatius of Antioch) (March 14, 2007)
On St. Clement of Rome -The Church Has a Sacramental, Not Political Structure (March 7, 2007)
Quotes from the Early Church Fathers
The Early Church Fathers on Baptism - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Contraception - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Justification - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Mary’s Perpetual Virginity - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on the Immaculate Conception - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Confession / Reconciliation - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on The Real Presence - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Intercession of the Saints - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Hell - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on The Primacy of Peter/Rome (Catholic/Orthodox Caucus)
The Early Church Fathers on The Mother of God - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Mary’s Perpetual Virginity - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Salvation Outside the Church [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
The Early Church Fathers on Purgatory - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Apostolic Succession - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
Early Church Fathers on (Oral) Tradition - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on The Church (Catholic Caucus)
The Early Church Fathers
LOL, anyone who knows anything about Church History knows that doctrines aren’t fully defined until they are attacked in some way.
by this way of thinking, Jesus did not become divine until the Council of Nicea.......hmmm, come to think of it, that is just what the Jehovah Witnesses teach!
for everyone who it is claimed thought the Eucharist to be figurative, i posted quotes showing they held no such beliefs.
when Ignatius rights in late first century, early second century that the Eucharist is the flesh of Jesus Christ, that’s transubstantiation in everything but the term.
i love when Catholic Church Fathers are quoted somehow against the Catholic Faith, when these same posters deny baptismal regeneration taught by these same Fathers they are quoting. isn’t it ironic?
Let me ask you this. Christ came in the flesh to this earth. He did not leave this earth “in the flesh” but was transfigured into His glorified heavenly body. During your so called “transubstantiation” are you putting Him back into His earthly flesh or His heavenly body?
No there was no Roman Catholic Church , and there was no "doctrine" for the RC..
Transubstantiation was not even a "doctrine until the 1200's..
The NT church had no priests, no mass, no sacraments, no statues, no holy water, no indulgences, no purgatory , no immaculate conception, no assumption, no prayer to the dead..
The RC is an invention of Constentine
So Sal..was the the ACTUAL PHYSICAL BODY OF CHRIST EATEN AT THE LAST SUPPER? Did christ eat His own flesh?
What’s so ironic? I believe some of what Calvin said but abhor some of what he said and did such as with Michael Servetus. I find some of the things the CC teaches to be scriptural but much of it is not. Why do you think we refer back to scripture “to see if these things are true”? It’s your church that has the “unanimous consent” idea. I pointed out that not all of the church fathers believed the same things as the CC does today. At the least the “unanimous consent” deal is a joke.
stop with the nestorian heresy, there is only one Jesus, He can’t be divided. true God, true man, one person.
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