The Eucharist -- John 6

CatholicThinker.net ^ | 2009 | CatholicThinker

[Salvation]

Christ was not speaking in a metaphor or allegory here. Otherwise, why did he say at the Last Supper, "This is my Body." "This is my Blood."

[Salvation]

That should say John 6. Sorry for the mistake. It’s being taken care of.

[Salvation]

A timely topic since we will hear one more Gospel on John 6.

[Patrick1]

Isn't the greatest difference between Catholics and Protestants the belief that Catholics have to go through a human being to get to Christ, Protestants find Christ Himself sufficient?

[RaisingCain]

“Christ’s followers here – the non-believing ones – could not accept that He meant His words literally. So, He repeated himself four times – four times He stated directly that one must “eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood” to “have live” (eternal live, that is).

When these disciples responded with incredulity or doubt, asking for clarification, He only repeated His words, more strongly (adding “drink his blood”).
Some of His disciples “walked no more with Him” as a result of this teaching. He did not attempt to keep them from going, as He surely would have if they had merely misunderstood the words. No, it is even more obvious that His words meant exactly what He said, literally, for if not the teaching was not “hard” and would not have resulted in disciples who could not accept it. In fact, this is the only instance recorded in the Gospels of Christ losing followers over a doctrinal matter – because they could not accept a teaching as given.

The literal meaning of the Greek word used for “eats” (trogon) actually means “chewing” or “gnawing” – a very graphic word that would not be used in metaphor.”

---

Christ specifically states that faith in Him will grant eternal life:

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

He repeats this many times, including in the chapter you were quoting. In fact, Christ uses the imagry of eating and drinking and connects it with Belief:

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

So belief will eternally satisfy thirst? Or will drinking the Roman wine satisfy thirst? Hmmmmm?

In fact, this is how Christ begins his discourse on what you claim is the teaching of the Eucharist.

He then concludes with this in the same chapter when speaking to His apostles:

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Not only does the flesh profit nothing, the words that He speaks “are spirit, and they are life.” Salvation, therefore, is a spiritual act, with a spiritual significance. No Roman ritual can possibly replace it.

[Patrick1]

Then in Baptism we literally die?

[Steelfish]

Excellent post. This is the crucial center of the Church. The living presence of Christ in the tabernacle. We cannot seek him, directly speak to him, feel or touch him. But he is there in the brilliance of his cosmic presence. Indeed, it is just as well that we not see him since we’d be physically blinded by the brilliance of his radiance.

Atheists and agnostics who down through the ages have finally converted to the Catholic Church have come to accept this. And of course so have scores of nobel laureates, painters, sculptors, philosophers, scientists, writers, poets, and statesman and famous Anglican and Protestant converts, and converts from Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, and Buddhism.

This is why we must distinguish Catholics from Christians. In fact it not too much of a stretch to say that we don’t worship the same God. The God in the Eucharist is the God we Catholics adore and worship and all other brands of Christianity (35,000 and counting) do not.

[Salvation]

Who is telling you this?

We pray directly to Christ, too.

[spunkets]

"Christ was not speaking in a metaphor or allegory here. Otherwise, why did he say at the Last Supper, "This is my Body." "This is my Blood."

It is metaphor. Note John 6:63, "The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are Spirit and they are life." God Himself says the flesh counts for nothing right there in John 6 to explain, so why does the Church insist on claiming that it does?

[Salvation]

Are you saying that you can sin all you want, not receive the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist and still live?

Is that what Christ says?

No, he says that unless you eat his flesh and drink his blood, the Eucharist, that he gave to us at the Last Supper you will NOT have eternal life.

[Salvation]

LOL!

Always, Proetestant are saying that they take the Bible literally. Are you taking this passage literally? It doesn’t appear that you believe Christ’s words, am I right?

[Salvation]

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[RaisingCain]

“Are you saying that you can sin all you want, not receive the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist and still live?

Is that what Christ says?”

---

I’m saying you got into your Priest’s secret stash of consecrated wine, since I didn’t say anything vaguely resembling any of that, and you cannot demonstrate how I did.

---

“No, he says that unless you eat his flesh and drink his blood, the Eucharist, that he gave to us at the Last Supper you will NOT have eternal life.”

---

I have drank His blood and eaten His flesh. I did so through faith, just as He himself said.

[Salvation]

Belief is important here. What denomination? Are you a Catholic or do you belong to an Anglican Use Church or one of the other 21 Catholic Churches??

THE RITES OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH -- There are many!

[Salvation]

As the reading for this Sunday says, “The Jews quarreled among themselves.”

I guess that still must be going on. Only it’s Christians who are quarreling over Christ’s words.

[spunkets]

"Christ specifically states that faith in Him will grant eternal life:

That is not all He said. He also said in Matt 7:21, “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

See Matt 25:31-46 where God verifies and elaborates on that and makes it clear that faith w/o works counts for nothing.

[ChinaGotTheGoodsOnClinton]

Too bad that many of the issues that differ with the teachings of the Church were addressed in your original post. I guess it is asking too much for people to read it before they post though.

Keep up the good work Salvation!

[stpio]

“What denomination? Are you a Catholic or do you belong to an ANGLICAN Use Church or one of the other 21 Catholic Churches??”

~ ~ ~

I read of many Anglicans these days are converting to Roman Catholicism.

[RaisingCain]

“After Christ consecrated and distributed His Body and Blood, He commanded the apostles to “Do this in remembrance of Me.” That word - remembrance - is very important, because the Greek word it is translated from refers to a deep and complex concept that has no proper word or even short phrase in modern languages. That word is anamnesis, and, according to the best evidence, means a type of memorial sacrifice. What is a memorial sacrifice? Note that it’s not the memorial of a sacrifice but rather a sacrifice that is itself a memorial - a critical distinction.

Because there is some contention regarding the meaning of anamnesis, we will look at how it is used elsewhere in the New Testament and the Septuagint (the Greek translation of the Old Testament).

In the Old Testament, anamnesis is used to refer to either a bread sacrifice or a blood sacrifice - a memorial sacrifice, that is. Lev 24, full of the same terminology of priests, eating, memorial sacrifice, incense and bread that surrounds the Eucharist, speaks of the anamnesis of Aaron’s priesthood. And Numbers 10 speaks of the burnt offerings of anamnesis offered to God to atone for sin. The parallels with the New Covenant Sacrifice are plentiful.

Anamnesis is used only once in the New Testament outside of the Last Supper narratives, in Heb 10, where Paul speaks of the Levitical sacrifices.

So, the concept of anamnesis existed in the Hebrew culture (religion): as mentioned in the Introduction the Passover itself has always been regarded by Jews as not just a remembrance of the Exodus, but as a re-living or “making present” of those events. And so it is with the Eucharist: It is the making-present, in a mystical way, of Christ’s sacrificial death. When Christ said “Do this anamnesis” He literally said “Celebrate this memorial sacrifice”. And so the Church has always done:”

---

This is pure Roman invention. The word Anamnesis does not literally mean “memorial sacrifice” at all. It means “remembrance,” and is always translated as such, but there is no sense of the meaning of “memorial sacrifice” in the word at all.

Peter uses the verb form Anamnesko (bracketed) here:

Mr 11:21
And Peter [calling to remembrance] saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away.

And here:

Mr 14:72
And the second time the cock crew. And Peter [called to mind] the word that Jesus said unto him, Before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice. And when he thought thereon, he wept.

So, was Peter performing a memorial sacrifice right there?

Plato uses the word Anamnesis as a name for Socrates’ theory that the soul possessed full knowledge before birth, but the “shock” of birth erased it all; thus, the human soul was only in the process of “Anamnesko” (remembering) throughout life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anamnesis_(philosophy)

So is Plato performing a “Memorial Sacrifice” by so naming his philosophical theory?

[Salvation]

Thanks.

Actually the article debunks all their claims.