The Old Testament Foretold that Mary Would Give Birth Without Pain (Catholic Caucus)

Cantaur ^ | December 22, 2012 | DR. TAYLOR MARSHALL

[NYer]

Painting: Michaelangelo's Prophet Isaiah

Dear friends,

We are all familiar with Isaiah's well known prophecy of Christmas:

“Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign. Behold a Virgin shall conceive, and bear a Son and his name shall be called Emmanuel.” (Isaiah 7:14)

However, Isaiah made another (lesser known) prophecy of Christmas:

"Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a Manchild" (Isa 66:7)

This verse is the basis for the Catholic teaching that Mary experienced no pain when she delivered Christ at Bethlehem. The Roman Catechism teaches that Christ passed through her "as sunlight passes through glass."

The reason for this is that Mary is the New Eve who gives birth to the promised Savior (see Gen 3:15). As New Eve, the Blessed Virgin Mary escapes the curse of Eve - labor pains.

This might be something interesting to discuss this Christmas with family or below in the comments. Keep in mind that all the Church Fathers before AD 600 believed that Mary's delivery was painless.

[NYer]

Catholic Caucus Thread

Ping!

[Slyfox]

Because Jesus was to be born of an immaculate vessel, Mary was born without the stain of Original sin.

So, because she was born sinless and without stain, she was not subject to the curse of Eve who did sin.

[mtg]

So, because she was born sinless and without stain, she was not subject to the curse of Eve who did sin. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Could you politely educate me on the biblical passage that backs that statement up?

This is a teaching of the Catholic Church. Since our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ (who is Divine as well as human) would not have been born into this world by way of an unclean temple. This is why the Church teaches Mary was without original sin.

While the Bible contains the written Word of God, the Word of God also lives in the Church. (Jesus established the Church and promised that evil shall never overcome it - therefore what the Church teaches is the Word of God even if it's not in the Bible)

There are many things that are not in the Bible, but are nonetheless just as true as if they were. This is very evident in the last verses of John's Gospel.

[Tax-chick]

It seems like it’s always men who are very concerned about this. This fits with their general discomfort with all the natural processes of women’s bodies, not just childbirth.

[sigzero]

That verse is talking about “men”. God certainly could.

[D-fendr]

Mary’s saviour is the same as ours.

Original sin is different than personal sin, it is more like a state of being.

Also, we do not believe that an eight-month old child has, or can, sin. So the “all” in the verse cannot mean every single human being excluding none. It must therefore be a rhetorical “all.”

[Salvation]

The Old Testament Foretold that Mary Would Give Birth Without Pain (Catholic Caucus)
Catholic Traditions for Advent and Christmas -- for Families
Is Christmas Pagan? No! It's time to learn some real history....
Pope's childhood letter to Baby Jesus shows his faith
In rare article, Pope asks Christians to reassess priorities at Christmas
On Christmas and Epiphany
On Christmas
URBI ET ORBI MESSAGE OF HIS HOLINESS POPE BENEDICT XVI
Solemn Mass of Christmas Eve with Pope Benedict XVI

Christmas, Pagan Romans and Frodo Baggins
Midnight Masses Canceled in Iraq Because of Growing Security Concerns
Christmas Overview for All
The Tradition of Midnight Mass: History
Which Christmas Mass are you attending? [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
Christmas, Christians, and Christ
The Many Meanings of Christmas
Vocations Under the Christmas Tree? [Catholic Caucus]
A Meditation On the “Bloody Octave” of Christmas [Catholic Caucus]
"It (Theosis) can be a somewhat startling theme for western Christian ears..."
Archbishop Wenski brightens Christmas for Krome detainees
The Octave of Christmas: December 25 -- January 1 [Ecumenical]
Pope's Christmas Warning: 'The Future Of The World Is At Stake'
Father Corapi: What Really Matters [at Christmas]?
Papal Midnight Mass With No Communion in The Hand
Christmas Requiem for Iraq's Christian Community
Christmas story shows season’s beauty [nice surprise from the Chicago Sun Times]
Text Of Pope's Homily For Christmas Eve Mass
Merry Christmas: Love is born on Christmas Morn and the Whole World Begins Again
'Christmas is Evil': Group Launches Poster Campaign Against Festive Period [UK]

The Origin of Nativity Scenes
St. Francis and the Christmas Creche
Holy Day Vs. Holiday: Making Christmas Less Commercial
25 Ways We're Different this Christmas
On Christmas: Where Everything Began
Saved by Christmas
Christmas Midnight Mass Canceled in Iraq
Some Christmas History: The Aztec Christmas Flower
Top 10 Christmas Carols (What is your favorite Christmas Carol?)
Where’s the Human in Humanism? Humanist Ads Violate...Own Humanist Standards (Attacking Christmas]
Fr. Corapi: In Reality, Sadness Has No Place At Christmas Time Or Any Time…
Pope's battle to save Christmas: Don't let atheists crush your traditions, Benedict tells Britain
A CHRISTMAS TRADITION IN ROME: THE STREET CLEANERS NATIVITY SCENE
The Days of Christmastide -- more than twelve!
Saint Padre Pio's Christmas Meditation
"Transform Me. Renew Me. Change Me, Change Us All" (Pope's Midnight Mass Homily)
Christmas in Rome. The Pope's Tale of the Crèche
On the Feast of Christ's Birth [Benedict XVI]
The Meaning of Christmas: Look Deeper
St. Francis and the Christmas crib.
Away in a Manger [St. Francis of Assisi and the first Nativity scene]

Message of His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI for the Celebration of the World Day of Peace [Family]
Christmastide and Epiphany
SOLEMNITY OF THE NATIVITY OF THE LORD: HOMILY OF HIS HOLINESS BENEDICT XVI [Catholic Caucus]
A Christmas Message >From Fr. Corapi
Christmas and the Eucharist(Catholic/Orthodox Caucus)
Preface: Memories of Christmas
Christmas Overview
The Manger -- Nativity Scene -- Crêche
Christmas Eve and Christmas Day
Christmas Quiz; How Much Do You Really Know?
Christmas Prayers: Prayers and Collects for the Feast of the Nativity
[Christmas] Customs from Various Countries and Cultures
The 12 Days of Christmas and Christmastide: A Rich Catholic Tradition
The 12 Days of Christmas -- Activities, Customs, Prayers, Blessings, Hymns -- For the Family
Iraqis Crowd Churches for Christmas Mass
Pope Wishes the World a Merry Christmas
On this night, a comforting message(Merry Christmas!)
Advent through Christmas -- 2007
Bethlehem beyond the Christmas calm
The Origin of Nativity Scenes

Various Orthodox Texts for the Feast of the Nativity
The Five Best Christmas Stories
What Are We Celebrating When We Celebrate Christmas?
Secular Christmas Celebration Pointless, Pope Says
The Wonder of Christmas - 1959
The Real Meaning of Christmas Lights
Top ten Carols and things you didn't know about them
The Nativity of Our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ
Christmas Proclamation
Christmas gifts are a reminder of Jesus, the greatest gift given to mankind, Pope tells youth
The Senses of Christmas
Pope celebrates Christmas mass
Christmas: The Turning Point of History
The Original Christmas Story
Bringing Christmas to Life Again
Christmas: the beginning of our redemption
Christmas and the Eucharist
Catholic Caucus: The 16 Days of Christmas (Christmas to the Baptism of the Lord)
Origin of the Twelve Days of Christmas [An Underground Catechism]
Origin of "The Twelve Days of Christmas" [Underground Catechism]

[Mrs. Don-o]

In one word: "Kecharitomene."

In the Bible, every time a person is given a new name by God, it signifies something big: it reveals your very inner identity, what God made you to be:

Abram --> Abraham (Father of Nations)

Jacob --> Israel (Wrestles with God)

Simon BarJonah --> Peter (Rock)

The unparalleled word, spoken by an Archangel, which gave Mary a name/title indicating her true self, was (in Greek) "Kecharitomene," a name/title not used anywhere else in the Bible, nor indeed anywhere in Greek literature, as a nominative (not just an adjective). It is a past perfect passive verbal form, participle, with a feminine ending, used as a form of address: "She who was completely filled with grace."

Other Biblical persons were described as being "filled with (or full of) grace" -- as we would put it in English --- but in Mary's case, the verb form is, as I mentioned, unique: which makes sense if she is the sole person handing on a human nature to Jesus: she was his only human parent. So the human nature she handed on to Him had to be without the defective inheritance of a marred nature.

This doesn't make her superhuman. It makes her Just. Plain. Human. With the unmarred humanness that everybody would have possessed as their birthright, if human nature had not been blighted by the shattering fall of our first parents.

[surroundedbyblue]

This is a caucus thread. Are you Catholic?

[CTrent1564]

Resettozero:

I will take St. Gregory of Nyssa, St. Ambrose of Milan, and St. Augustine, and St. Johan Damascene’s interpretation of Isiah 66:7 over yours and your local Pastor in wherever you are United States.

[Religion Moderator]

This Religion Forum thread is labeled “Catholic Caucus” meaning if you are not currently, actively Catholic - then do not post on this thread.

[Bryan24]

Sorry, Religion Moderator. Been on FR for 10+ years, never seen a thread where religious segregation was enforced.

My apologies to the Catholics.