Mother Of Us All, Or Sister? Olmecs A Puzzle

Times Union ^ | 3-15-2005 | John Noble Wilford

[blam]

Mother of us all, or sister? Olmecs a puzzle

By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD, New York Times
First published: Tuesday, March 15, 2005

On a coastal flood plain etched by rivers flowing through swamps and alongside fields of maize and beans, the people archaeologists call the Olmecs lived in a society of emergent complexity. It was more than 3,000 years ago, along the Gulf of Mexico around Veracruz.

The Olmecs moved a veritable mountain of earth to create a plateau above the plain, and there planted a city, the ruins of which are known today as San Lorenzo.

The Olmecs are widely regarded as creators of the first civilization in Mesoamerica, the area encompassing much of Mexico and Central America, and a cultural wellspring of later societies, notably the Maya. Some scholars think the Olmec civilization was the first anywhere in America.

Were Olmecs the "mother" culture? Or were they one among "sister" cultures?

Last month, Dr. Jeffrey P. Blomster, an Olmec archaeologist at George Washington University, reported in the journal Science what he and other researchers described as evidence of widespread export of Olmec ceramics that they said supported "Olmec priority in the creation and spread of the first unified style and iconographic system in Mesoamerica."

But proponents of the sister school are not letting things go unchallenged. The mother-culture advocates, said Dr. Susan D. Gillespie, a Mesoamerican archaeologist at the University of Florida, were "flogging a dead horse, the idea that the Olmec invented civilization, carried it to all of Mesoamerica, and it's the basis of the Maya."

[muawiyah]

The problem is no one ever demonstrated conclusively that any Indians could speak or understand Welsh.

Part of the problem may relate to the British Crown's name for the former French territory along the Ohio River.

Right after their victory in the French and Indian War the Brits renamed the territory in question "New Wales". You can find colonial maps showing that name.

[RichInOC]

I don't know about that...but am I the only one who thinks that some of those big stone heads look like the rapper Ice Cube?

[keithtoo]

This thread says that there is circumstantial evidence to that effect:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/943967/posts

Heres a sample quote:

"Jim Michael, President of the Ancient Kentucke Historical Association, and one of our most active US supporters, takes up the tale: "In the early 1800s a Dr. Ward was summoned to the White Water area of Indiana to treat the people of a village of Native Americans who were dying of, perhaps, smallpox. One of the last surviving men, who called himself a king, asked if he could give Dr. Ward some sacred information. He told Ward that the member of the tribe who was to have received this "Lleni Llenape" information was dead, and there was no one left to pass it on to. He then handed him 148 sticks each of which had carving upon it."

"Dr Ward later gave these sticks to Professor Constantine Rafinesque of Transylvania College. Rafinesque and Eli Lilly went back to the tribal area to get more information on the history, called the "Wallam Ollam". They met with several of the remaining elders and learned that there was a chant that went with each stick. One of the sticks told of a great flood, and another of the creation myth. The remaining sticks told what happened when different kings were leading their people. It appeared to be a chronology of their tribal leadership. Eli Lily published the Wallan Ollam in book form and gave every member of the Indiana Historical Society a copy."

"The bards of Britannia also recorded all the births and deaths of nobility on sticks, and on special occasions they brought them out into public and sang their story to all. It is very hard to believe that two historical record systems could be independently invented. Of course, the two men had a bit of trouble understanding the wording but they did the best they could to write down what they heard."

Sounds crazy? Not really; the best part is that the Delaware histories tell of a great and powerful nation of "White men" who came to the Kentucky and Indiana regions in antiquity and that only an unprecedented alliance of all the Mid Western and Eastern tribes was able to fight against them. Had Rafinesque and Lilly known that Gwallam Oll-means "The Organization of Everyone", and that Lleni Llenape means "Secret Knowledge", in the Khumric-Welsh language, then things would have been rather different. "

[hispanarepublicana]

What would you think if it indicated you were related to the Basque people?

based on my research , there may well be very old ties ...what should I think of that?

[blam]

From a previous post:

We have a plaque down here too at Ft Morgan, on Mobile Bay, for Prince Madoc.

"The inscription on a plaque placed alongside Mobile Bay in 1953 by the Daughters of the American Revolution reads: "In memory of Prince Madog, a Welsh explorer who landed on the shores of Mobile Bay in 1170 and left behind, with the Indians, the Welsh language."

40 posted on 07/10/2003 10:50:06 PM CDT by blam

[blam]

"based on my research , there may well be very old ties ...what should I think of that?"

I think most would be suprised at how closely related we all are. Afterall, 74,000 years ago, there were only about 2,000 of us worldwide.

[blam]

BTW, to my suprise, Oppenheimer says that the oldest undisputed Mongoloid skeleton ever found is only 10,000 years old. There must have been a lot of the Jomon - Ainu and Negrito types around in Asia prior to 10k years ago.

[hispanarepublicana]

I think most would be suprised at how closely related we all are

Cool...someone else to add to my "airport pickup/latest mlm home party trend" prospect list...

[keithtoo]

Not to mention the 'car wont start at 1:00 in the morning list'.

[blam]

"I don't know about that...but am I the only one who thinks that some of those big stone heads look like the rapper Ice Cube?"

Every time I see a rapper, I change the channel. I went to Subway sandwich shop the other day, rap music was playing...I turned around and left...I'll never go back. I think we should cleanse the gene pool and execute all the rappers.

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks Blam.

Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on, off, or alter the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list --
Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
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[SunkenCiv]

Mesopotamian Climate Change (8,000 Years Ago)
Geo Times | 2-15-2004
Posted on 02/15/2004 11:18:28 AM PST by blam
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1078688/posts
51 posted on 02/23/2004 7:33:10 AM PST by SunkenCiv http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1078688/posts?page=51#51

Warmer Periods In Alaska
Source: ScienceDaily.com
Published: 8-21-2001 Author: Hu, Brown & Engstrom
Posted on 08/21/2001 16:02:08 PDT by blam
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b82e8702a92.htm
35 Posted on 08/21/2001 22:10:12 PDT by Bernard Marx
http://www.FreeRepublic.com/forum/a3b82e8702a92.htm#35

Roots of Mesoamerican Writing
Science Magazine, Academic Press Daily "Inscight"
Posted 5 December 2002, 5 pm PST | ERIK STOKSTAD
Posted on 12/07/2002 4:54:13 AM PST by jimtorr
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/802484/posts

Unmasking Sanxingdui Ruins
Xinhuanet/China News | 5-7-2004 | China View
Posted on 05/07/2004 1:16:15 PM PDT by blam
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1131525/posts

[wildbill]

don't some of the mounds' shapes resemble snakes (dragons) ???

[Fedora]

Yes:

Serpent Mound

There are also serpentine structures in Britain (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial_s&q=serpent+temple+avebury&btnG=Search), so that may be another possible source of diffusion.

[fish hawk]

Were the Olmecs "evolved" or "created"?

[SunkenCiv]

Just updating the GGG information, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.

Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

[SunkenCiv]

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