Pride or prejudice? Terri's plight...Stop the BS!

Multitudes of postings | 3/26/2005 | self

[pageonetoo]

I am a Christian. I call myself conservative. I vote for Republican candidates, and helped elect (and re-elect) George Bush and his dad, with my vote, and my pocketbook.

I am tired of the people who know what is right. I studied the Bible in a formal setting (Bible college), and have been brought up with the teachings of the church.

Why is this hysteria taking place? Is it because a Florida judge has ruled on a valid law, or that we disagree wth him and that law? Are we taking a biblical approach to this situation? Do we believe there is a God?

People are threatening Michael, like he is the angel of death. He's not. He's a guy that has loved a woman so much that he has taken the abuse of thousands of professing "Christians' who have no real interest, nor an accurate knowledge of the events taking place. I read where he spent years of his life trying to get some help for her. Now, he is a beast, since he has decided to let God have her...

We have portions of both sides' news, and positions being dispensed. We are led to believe, by the "right to lifers", that she is ready to get up and walk. Her parents say she is speaking, but doctors have said that it is not possible, she has no reasoning capability. Nurses eport that he tried to murder her with insulin, tyet, even the cops don't believe them. Of course, your histrionics are going to change her situation...

I don't know. I can't make the decision. I don't want ot be faced with a similar decision (but I have a DNR set up).

I do know that there is only one entity that can change her condition. He is our Heavenly Father. His Son is honored in our corporate memory tomorrow.

I have read of people making comparisons of Terri to Jesus in His sacrificial death. Please spare us that one.

I have seen that people expect the courts to join their delusions about her condition, and fly in the face of that reality when it is face down...

Get a grip.

God is still in control If Terri Schiavo is so important to you, as a believer, you should be spending your time on your knees... not browsing the Internet. God doesn't sign on here...

James 5:7ff-

7Be patient, then, brothers, until the Lord's coming. See how the farmer waits for the land to yield its valuable crop and how patient he is for the autumn and spring rains. 8You too, be patient and stand firm, because the Lord's coming is near. 9Don't grumble against each other, brothers, or you will be judged. The Judge is standing at the door!

10Brothers, as an example of patience in the face of suffering, take the prophets who spoke in the name of the Lord. 11As you know, we consider blessed those who have persevered. You have heard of Job's perseverance and have seen what the Lord finally brought about. The Lord is full of compassion and mercy.

12Above all, my brothers, do not swear–not by heaven or by earth or by anything else. Let your “Yes” be yes, and your “No,” no, or you will be condemned. The Prayer of Faith

13Is any one of you in trouble? He should pray. Is anyone happy? Let him sing songs of praise. 14Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. 16Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.

[MoefromMs]

I appreciate your civility. You seem like a very mature person. You are correct. We do have laws and yes they are strict. I'm not real sure about your life is tough comment or what that has to do with my previous post. And yes I am bound to obey the law and I do. All I asked from you is to clarify your comment that we are a nation based on laws, as if no other country is based on laws. I would still like an answer from my previous post, if you don't mind.

[Beeline40@aol.com]

So, lets see, If I after reading all I can regarding this case, and if I come to the conclusion that letting her go is the best thing to do, then I am supporting evil? Oh, please.

[MikefromOhio]

Evil is evil and I do not see your views as Christian.

And who the hell are YOU to decide that? HMMMMM????

[MoefromMs]

thank you. Now I understand. I knew that a higher concentration of potassium in the blood can cause cardiac arrest, hence why they use it in lethal injection. I did not realize low levels of potassium can cause the same effect. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

[pageonetoo]

You see I didn't skip that little line in the Bible about Thou Shall not Kill...

Actually, it is more readily translated as "you shall do no murder".

I realize there is a lot of emotion involved in all of this. I skipped nothing, as well, and usually have another quote ready to back up my first one (you know, that 2 or 3 witnesses thing...).

When you can give me a scripture that says all little children go to heaven, I will accept your ideas about TS. My understanding is that God is in control of everything... but we are his motive force.

There is a lot of wind blowing, but no heat...

Galatians 5:13ff-

16So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and selfcontrol. Against such things there is no law. 24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

In this letter to the Galatians,we can see a list of the "acts of a sinful nature". Many have charged Michael Shiavo with half the list. I read the rest of the list. I hear some things coming from the "Christians" on these threads that seem to fit on there just as well.

God does not consider a degree to sin. He considers sin as anything not in His will, as "missing the mark".

Pray for Terri. Pray for Michael. Pray for the parents. Your harping and wailing will change nothing.

The law has decided, and even if you disagree, Terri going to pass on... so pray harder! I have finished my prayer for her.

I only have one more tonight...Lord Jesus, come quickly...

[annyokie]

You are quite welcome. The amount of name calling on this topic is wearing.

What I meant, and I am sorry that I was not clear about it, is that we may not, in the name of emotion, take the law into our own hands. Were that the case, then vigilantism would be the law of the land as it was back in the days of lynch mobs. See some of the child killer threads for further information of those who are, as we all are at times, seized by emotion.

We are a civilized country with carefully thought out laws and rules of conduct. We can't fly off at the cuff and do as we please no matter how we may feel. Anarchy is not a way for the USA. Other countries may do as they do, but we live here.

I wish that things were going differently for Terri, as well. That said, her options are exhausted...legally. I do not wish her death, but her parents have no legal standing in this matter.

May the Lord have mercy on all involved.

[TheLionessRN]

Regarding MRI for Terri. She cannot have one performed because of the implant in her brain. I don't see a feasibility in removing the thing, even if it is possible to do so.

[thomaswest]

Some Freepers feel an omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent God. And hoped for a genuine miracle. No such miracle has ocurred.

I think it is for us mere humans to work out how to handle complex questions at the end of life. There were humans (better than me) that wrote our Constitution, humans that developed our laws. And in the first half of our history, human women were prevented having a voice in this.

Some say that the sins of the father shall be upon even the third and fourth generation, but no rational freeper really believes this Biblical doctrine. The Bible is part of the heritage of many of us, but there is not a single mention of God in our fundamental law, the Constitution.

(Exodus 34:6-7) - "Then the Lord passed by in front of him and proclaimed, "The Lord, the Lord God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth; 7who keeps lovingkindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations."

No they don't
(Deuteronomy 24:16) - "Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin."
(Ezekiel 18:20) - "The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself."

Any poster here who suggests that Michael's children are complicit instantly loses my respect. I don't give a d-a-mn if this is Bible-based or not. Children have their own souls, and I will not see them condemned for "sins" of their parents.

It is human beings, with fear for their mortality, that care about Terri. "Principles" are often motivated by fear.

[Mark in the Old South]

You started this, one might ask Who are you to suggest those who want to save Terri are not living up to a Christian ideal? Do not bother to answer I meet your kind when I used to be an Episcopalian. I had my fill of "Christians" with an empty headed notions. Shallow and vapid. The Bible is read for the purpose of finding Loopholes. When I encounter such people I can tell they are in one of the empty mainline churches, Episcopalian, Presbyterian USA, United Methodist, or unchurched. I am never impressed with their "faith".

[redangus]

When I first started on FR it was because of the reasoned discussions. Starting right after the 2000 election that all changed. This site has been hijacked by the emotionally driven.

[nmh]

You totally lost me.

[ethical]

I am sick of all of this Terri Shiavo hysteria!

You have been unable to separate the frantic emotion displayed sometimes on the threads from the moral imperative this case demands or from the facts presented in the public record.

Any serious review of the public record reveals that Terri is being murdered by judicial fiat. That the judge, Schiavo's attorney and Schiavo have conflicts of interest. That Schiavo said Terri wanted to live when he wanted to win money in a lawsuit and then that she wanted to die soon after he won the money.

That the docters who put Terri in the hospice (the hospice that Greer and/or Schiavo's attorney served on the board of) lied and said she had a "disease" that she would die from in "six months".

That Schiavo has denied Terri any rehabilitation for at least 10 years. Cruel and unusual punishment but I think it's worse than that, I think he has wanted to murder her for a long time. She's not pretty anymore and I think he wants to make sure she never learns how to talk again because then she would tell people what happened that night.

It is in the record, in court documents, in printed interviews, in affidavits. You can review the record on your own and skip the over the top rantings that bother you here. But you don't have to deny the truth and turn your back on a disabled woman who is being murdered.

[nmh]

Me: "My faith lies confidentially with Him."


You: You should not keep it a secret if you truly believe.

LOL!

I don't worry about things. He is in control, not me.

[TheLionessRN]

If there was a suspected attempt to kill her, the police would have arrested him. It didn't happen.

I had a patient come into the ER that I work in one night with the police in tow. The patient was carried in and it was reported that she had been found in a field, was unconcious and had been raped. Upon further assessment on my part and investigation on the part of the police, it was determined that she was not found in a field, but on her front porch. She had not been raped, she was drunk and a boy from down the street was on top of her, kissing her, and a family member witnessed this out the front window and stopped the whole situation. She was not unconcious, she was very drunk and decided to play possum when the whole hoopla started swirling around her.
Sometimes, in an emergency situation, or one where all nerve endings are at full alert, things get said and carried forward that are not true. Once cooler heads start to look at it, things become clear.

[steve-b]

Is it because a Florida judge has ruled on a valid law, or that we disagree wth him and that law?

Respect for the rule of law around these parts ain't what it used to be when it was Bill Clinton on the hot seat....

[MoefromMs]

I agree with most of what you are saying. All I'm trying to say is that while it is true we are a nation of laws, that doesn't mean our laws are perfect. And to add to that, I think everyone on FR can agree that we have an out of control judiciary in this country. Now that does not mean that I think every Judge in this country is evil. I also realize that there are some Judges who do follow the laws and don't try to rewrite them. But I have heard so much talk in these last couple of weeks that the legislative branch has no authority...aka....congressmen do not want to be in the position of telling judges what to do. But I think the legislative branch and most of the American people have forgotten that they do in fact some measure of control over the judiciary, not the other way around. we have seen voters a couple of times in California where propositions voted on by the people have been struck down by one judge. If the court system has the right to make laws as well enforce them through court order, then I'm afraid we are living under the beginning stages of tyranny. Apparently throughout all this we all have learned one thing: George Greer has power over individual citizens, the legislative and executive branch of Florida, as well as city police officers and state wide officers.

[af_vet_1981]

but I am sick of all of this Terri Shiavo hysteria ...

Not to sick to post a thread ...

Have a nice meal tomorrow after you pray ...