Posted on 07/03/2014 7:51:01 AM PDT by US Navy Vet
An Israel officer and combat veteran of many campaigns was asked what he thought about the Americans switch from the .45 ACP to the 9x19 Parabellum round. The Israel thought a moment and replied:
“The 9mm is adequate for the job; it only takes four hits on the bad guy to put him down.” [Unsaid was the .45 ACP got the job done more efficiently and with fewer hits.]
Yes, I do know that. The .38 that was in use at the time was not stopping the Moros. The .45 Long Colt in Single Action Army revolvers was getting the job done. So Browning developed the .45 ACP for his 1911 semi-auto.
I refer to it as “American Commie Popper” because of the abbreviation “ACP” (Automatic Colt Pistol) and it was used in Korea and Vietnam - where we were WERE “popping Commies”.
“...They feel like plastic to me ....”
My friend... that’s because they ARE Plastic!!! Hahah!!! (mostly!)
But yes, you have a great point about the felt recoil. My all metal Beretta versus the Glock - there’s a definite “soaking up” of recoil in an all-steel sidearm versus a polymer framed one.
But - I’ve been carrying and shooting Glocks for going on 20 years now, and I guess I’m just used to it.
I’m even thinking of picking up an FN5-7... talk about plastic!!! Those things feel like they’re made by Mattel!!
But it’s a wicked little tack driver to be sure...
Thank you for the experience there. I’m looking at a college handgun for my daughter, and was looking at the Walthers. Sounds like you are saying a good old Browning will do the trick.
The GM1 on my old ship tried to sell me one at a very good price. Great guy. Turn him down at the time. Very stupid. The young tend to be that way some times.
Fair nuf. While I have always shot well with a pistol (.45 & 9mm) personally, my only shooting trainer experience was with the M16 series. Of course, now that you mention it, my wife gets tighter shot groups than I do with our .38 & .357s than I do, but she does not shoot as well with my M9.
V/R
Bill
B.S.
I watched em try for 23 years...No Bs about it...All true!
Sure, if you’re trying to qualify with a 30 year old worn-out piece of junk 1911. Been there, done that. Better training is also needed.
The 1911 is the perfect weapon.....if you ever run out of ammo, you can beat the enemy to death with it.
The FN 5.7.....so effective that the Secret Service uses it. Almost no recoil with the ballistics of a rifle. Its on my wish list.
Agreed, but with a caveat: I think the M&P is the most ergonomically correct frame available, aside from the 1911. That said, I sold mine when I found you had to remove the locktited sight to improve the lousy trigger. Too much tweaking for my taste....
All the data that I have seen is that the Glocks are far more reliable than 1911 pistols, and last for a much greater number of rounds.
I read of 100,000 rounds though a Glock 17.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_5_13/82405_.html
Here is an update from 2010 He is now up to 277,000 rounds.
Chuck Taylor’s Glock: Update
Not long ago, I asked if anyone could give me an update on Chuck Taylor’s G17, which he says he’s had for over 20 years and has fired several hundred thousand rounds through. Well, according to the Feb. 2011 issue of a magazine that he writes for regularly, he’s now up to 277,000 rounds and still going strong. He also says you can go to Glock.com and read more. As I recall, some of you that responded to my OP expressed doubts. Now, I’m no Glock guy, but I do respect the Austrian piece for it’s reliability. Anyone have any further thoughts?
I recall hearing of 1911A1 pistols requiring rebuilds regularly by 50,000 rounds, but I have not found documentation on the net. Here is a quote from a guy who was in the Army Marksmanship Unit, and he says cracked frames were common on guns that shot hardball continually.
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=214558
“In the Army Marksmanship Unit, which I was a part of while on active duty (I now compete with the USAR Service Pistol Team), barrels on accurized 1911 pistols are watched closely and replaced after 5000 rounds, which is about 2 seasons of competitive shooting (all shooters are issued 2 each wad guns and ball guns). This is due to the wear induced by jacketed rounds, both 185 and 230 grain. The problem with a .45 barrel is that no one can forecast exactly when accuracy will take a nose-dive. And it will happen fast, in my experience. So barrels are replaced BEFORE they need to be. Currently, Kart and Bar-sto barrels are used in 1911s. Frames crack regularly, usually along the dust cover or the slide stop hole. Slides will crack in the slide stop notch. This almost always occurs with hardball guns, due to the constant pounding of 230 grain ball loads. Now that both the US Army and the USAR use tuned M9s, it should be interesting to see how long the Beretta aluminum frames last-even with steel rails installed.”
One of the big problems with the 1911 design is the grip safety. I recall hearing of numerous unintended discharges because of it. It would wear to the point of being unreliable (where you had to hold it just right to get the pistol to fire). People would try to fire the pistol, and it would not go off, then they would shift their grip a little ... and blam! off it would go! It happened to a Lt. that I was coaching once. Of course that was with old WWII, well worn 1911A1s.
I also had a 1911A1 that was issued to me in a reserve unit. It must have been made a little after the war. It seemed brand new. I shot high score in a Leg match (divisional match) with that pistol, and I had never shot it before. It was issued to me for that match!
The 1911A1 is a decent pistol, but it is an old design.
The Glock is just a modernized Browning design. He likely would have made one much like it if he had the materials and metallurgy that Gaston Glock had.
It is quite similar, in a lot of ways, to an upgraded Browning 1935 design. Double stack magazine, Browning tilt barrel lock on the ejection port, no barrel bushing.
That’s the type of information I was looking for. Thank you.
Yep, .45acp ping. Although I prefer the Sig P-220, I like the .45acp. Truth be known, I like the .45 Colt just as much.
Agree on the 220 but in its new and improved flavor...227. 10 round standard capacity with a option for 14 round extended mags as spares. That would be a great standard issue for DOD IMHO.
But my CCW/CHL rigs will probably remain a Glock 31 or Sig 229 as I have great respect for the 357 Sig proprietary round the 125gr gold dot HP recipe allows. It’s just as mean as the 45 yet gives me capacity and stopping power and penetration .
Stay safe Sir !
My EOD team carried em in Desert Storm as well .... Took scoped M1A’s vs M4’s and 1911A1’s and a M82A1 Barrett tossed in for good measure. Never felt under gunned or out ranged .....
Standardization and specialization are IMHO for insects, polidiots and presstitutes.
DOD should be prepared to issue, train and support whatever tools are needed to defeat the threats to this nation, domestic and foreign.
Hope yer well Hale !
Stay safe !
You’re right. In the store it felt so good in my hand that I just knew it was going to be my favorite carry. A trip to the range and - Nope.
Handguns in other than 9mm (usually .45 or .22) are there for accuracy, stealth, or other special reasons. Maintenance and training should be done at a slightly higher organizational level. Preferably manned by older operators who don't love running up and down mountains any more, but have lots of knowledge that needs to be passed around.
As far as a cartridge goes, it has to be a world-beater, because it has to overcome the hard-earned reputation of the .45ACP, and the western world's loathing at changing handguns again for whatever reason. Other than a SOF (if they have one), most countries would just issue airsoft pistols, because 95% of them would never be drawn from the holster, and the other 5% couldn't hit anything anyway.
The PDW was/is an interesting concept, except it requires a unanimous vote among NATO, and would probably be issued in greater numbers than the current carbines.
While morbid to dwell upon (but appropriate to the subject matter of war fighting)...
...a bullet rattling around the intended target, rather than passing right through it, can be preferable.
Nothing beats the 1911 .45 cal. One shot, end of story.
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