What could be the biggest battle for property rights this country has ever seen.

Sawgrass Rebellion ^ | August 1, 2002 | Various

[comwatch]

Calling All Convoy Freepers

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'Sawgrass Rebellion' launched "Private land owners are being forced off their land by a variety of coersive land-use policies, being imposed under the banner of Everglades Restoration," endangered species protection, open space, Heritage areas, and a host of other programs, all designed to displace people, or severely restrict the use of private property." Henry Lamb,  Executive vice president of the Environmental Conservation Organization.

"We predict that approximately 25,000 people will be forced to leave their homes." Don E. Lester, The 15,000 Coalition Naples, Florida

"WE'VE HAD ENOUGH!!" "We are taking back America and our rights as free citizens. Our hope has a name,  The Sawgrass Rebellion. In October, we will see what it is like to be a member of a family as big as this nation. We are definitely not alone in this fight and the powers-that-be will not be able to ignore the magnitude of our refusal to have our property rights trampled. We must take a stand to protect our land. Will you please join us in Naples, Florida."  Cindy Kemp, Naples Florida Property Rights Action Committee.

  Click on the Gazette for full story.

Background

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Real People

Conveys are forming to depart from  Klammath Falls, Oregon and London, Ohio.
To join or form a separate convey contact:  Grant Gerber, Convey Coordinator

[Black Agnes]

Gag, these people make me *ill*. BTW gramps, thanks for the great fire picture yesterday! Absolutely mind boggling how intense those fires are! Hope they're not so hot they sterilize the ground but I'm not optimistic there :(.

[FreeTally]

Taking of land or the uses of land through use restriction devices such as conservation easements, "willing sellers", manipulating the Endangered Species Act, etc. is Un-Constitutional and Extra-Constitutional.

You are way off on the two bolded issues. Makes me wonder about your other assertions.

I have worked with many conservation easements and have been involved with properties to be purchased under the CARL program. You have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to conservation easements and CARL(willing sellers). Sorry, thats the truth.

[cubreporter]

Unreal. Dufus from the word go!

[cubreporter]

PS: Thanks to Rush Limbaugh for all he does for this country. Even the libs know that!

[FreeTally]

You are corrcet. I wouldn't say its proper to call eminent domain a "right". Its a power granted by the people. I believe its abused very much.

[Black Agnes]

Really? would you characterize the farmers being forced to sell because their once productive farmland is now flooded as 'willing sellers'? If I destroy your house to the point it is unliveable and then offer you money for it...are you a 'willing seller'?

[FreeTally]

Really? would you characterize the farmers being forced to sell because their once productive farmland is now flooded as 'willing sellers'? If I destroy your house to the point it is unliveable and then offer you money for it...are you a 'willing seller'?

I never addressed that. Sorry. What's going on down there in south Florida does not involve the CARL program. I took exception to the poster saying that "willing seller programs" are unconstitutional and essentially are not voluntary. That's demonstrably false. The poster that sais that does not appear to be interested in the truth, just wants to bash all State purchases of land.

[BooBoo1000]

You forgot " Never Fired"

[summer]

Re your post #52 - See, you never did read any of the links I posted, did you? Because the farmers AND the environmentalists JOINED TOGETHER IN SUPPORT of this Rural and Family Owned Lands Protection Act law signed by Gov Bush. Boht groups joining in together is what newspapers noted, since this alliance was so unusual. But, since protecting the land is truly what both groups wanted -- yes, it's true, go back to that thread where I posted all those links for you and try READING some of the information I bothered to post to you -- a lot of people are very happy with this new law (INCLUDING private property rights adovacy groups). Amazing that people can work together sometimes, I know. But, if I suggest it - I am a looney tune wacko, right?

[summer]

Re your post #62 - Thanks for pinging me as well; I know you are addressing your response to saurpod's comments (in italics).

[Black Agnes]

Of *course* the farmers joined in. They'd been ruined, what choice did they have? They should know that it only bought them a little time however, can't lose the tax base overnight doncha know. Of course the environmentalists joined in, this money enabled them to justify further restrictions on the farmers. Remember, the environmental groups like Sierra Club no longer really *care* about the environment, they just want to eliminate private property (they're marxists now) and get the people OFF the land any way they can!

[Black Agnes]

Untrue. I know Sauropod, his research is meticulous. His beef is with State land purchases that are demonstrably against the public good (not for roads, hospitals, schools/etc). What's going on now for the most part is 'State confiscation' in the name of the environment because environmental good is good for everyone, right? Only when this land is confiscated the public is seldom if ever allowed to visit it. The goal of this movement is 50% of the continental US as people FREE. The remainder HIGHLY regulated usage and most of our food purchased from overseas. See how easily this fits with the UN agenda of weakening the US and causing a wealth redistribution to the third world. If we are restricted from the use of our own natural resources and forced to pay whatever is charged for food ($10/head for lettuce anyone?) then that wealth redistribution will have occurred. Not only that, people confined to 500/acre (from Sierra Club website btw, they think this is optimum population density) are MUCH more easily monitored and controlled.

[summer]

Re your post #57 -- I personally do not know much about the Florida water situation that you keep referring to,

Ask Henry Lamb about it, Ever since I posted to countrydummy a quote from GW about the benefits of the Everglades Restoration, and then Henry Lamb wrote countrydummy in reply, suddenly, then, Henry Lamb writes an essay about the need to provide water for the population -- very good, Henry, finally, you are reading some of the years of research being quoted by GW and done by Army engineers.

sauropod, you are calling me a liberal and I don't know why. I am posting about a conservative candidate for FL governor 99.9% of the time on this forum, so either you never read my posts, or you mistakenly think Jeb Bush is a Democrat candidate for gov, which he is not, FYI. And, yes, he has been honored by environmental groups, but, as I keep pointing out here, he also has a very strong record on protecting private property rights.

Please note I do not have a beef with you or with this movement about the need to protect private property rights. I think that is an important cause. But, you people dilute the cause and your own voice when you rush to include every single situation in it. IMO, Henry Lamb is making a huge mistake by including this Everglades matter in his nationwide protest. I have tried to help the people who are about to lose their land in this county, but, they only want to protest - protesting, BTW, is great IMO, but, it is better if you have a message the community can rally around. And, there is such an issue here, locally, that well might unite more people IMO, but, again, never mind. I have suggested it already and they don't understand it. No problem. Good luck to them.

[summer]

Re your post #72 - No, the farmers didn't "join in" -- the farmers STARTED it because THEY ARE THE FAMILIES WHO HAVE OWNED THE LAND FOR GENERATIONS IN THIS STATE. YOu are so illogical in your comments about FL it is ridiculous. YOu can't drive 20 miles in any direction in this state without passing a major farm owned by a family for generations. ANd, that new law keeps it that way. Buy a car and spend some time drivinig throught the state of FL like I have hundreds of times, since you don't read posts and you don't believe anything I say. You might learn something if you bother to open your eyes on your road trip.

[Dementon]

"I would grab a rifle and get in the trench and fight and die,"

As long as he keeps his promise to die...

[FreeTally]

And again, I have not even addressed what you are talking about. I simply addressed the posters uneducated blanket statement about conservation easements and willing seller programs.

I am TOTALLY against the State TAKING properties for no legitimate reason. I am generally suspicious of "environmental concerns", but I do not know enough about that specifically to form an opinion on the Everglades issue. You raise many issues I agree with(State, which is we tax payers, purchasing land we can never set foot on, etc..).

However, I would be curious if this is what the average environmentalists really wants:

Not only that, people confined to 500/acre (from Sierra Club website btw, they think this is optimum population density) are MUCH more easily monitored and controlled.

There will be a civil war before we are forced to live at a density of 500 persons per acre. This would mean everyone would live in high-rise buildings. Everyone. I don't doubt there are wackos out there who want this, but most "environmental" types I know like to live on somewhat secluded acreage tracts, not high rise buildings. There would be too much "infighting" and the "environmentalists" would lose support from the "grassroots".

[FreeTally]

Please note I do not have a beef with you or with this movement about the need to protect private property rights. I think that is an important cause. But, you people dilute the cause and your own voice when you rush to include every single situation in it.

In deed.

As I stated, I do not know all of the specifics about the Everglades issue, but I do know that central and south Florida are quickly running out of water. Apparently, something has to be done. What it is, I do not know. One thing though is that growth has to slow down. Its just a fact. These same property owners complaining now will be doing the same when they run out of water and the government proposes something else(probably more harmful). I do not know the solution, but part is going to involve the slowing of growth(and developers do not like that at all).

[Black Agnes]

You're saying the FARMERS started all the insane regulations that make it difficult to continue to earn a living? Of course they want to live where they've lived for generations? What does that have to do with the fact that:

1. Out of whack insane regulations make it difficult to earn a living being a farmer.
2. Farmers, face with losing a farm that's been in their family for generations complain.
3. Knowing that loss of farms and tax base immediately (as opposed to the 100 year schedule of the wildlandswackos) will lead to local chaos, the government agrees to an 'assistance program' for farmers.
4. Knowing that w/o said assistance program they'd be bankrupt and on the auction block, the farmers support said assistance.

So no, the farmers didn't 'start' the crisis, the eco wackos did. The eco wackos end intent is to get rid of nasty farming (they hate the farming peasants) so the land can return to its pristine state. (even though most of the native tribes in the SE did a great deal of farming themselves albeit with stone age technology which wasn't as efficient and required greater land usage per capita than the technology current in europe when Columbus sailed).

[RightWhale]

As far as W knowing what the heck is going on in the land rights fight, I don't think so.

Probably he doesn't 'get it.' Most people don't. But it is good and necessary to begin airing out the real estate ownership rights situation. A lot of FReepers have spent time at the library going through shelves of law books trying to find out the basic truths. Most haven't joined the discussion, some because insults seem to be more common than points on this subject, some because they aren't sure where to begin.

I have seen the 9th Amendment, the 4th and 5th Amendment, and the Eighth Commandment of the Old Testament cited as pertaining to reals estate ownership. Unfortunately, none of these are explicit. So there is debate.

Who is the ultimate owner and how is ownership defined?