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shocking propaganda against France
Fédéraliste

Posted on 01/28/2003 5:05:12 PM PST by PierreEsbaillart

I am very shocked by the current propaganda against France and, in a minor extent, Germany and the EU, which is developing on the American web and media. As we are some "old Europe" countries, let me tell you that some elements of this propaganda remind me of the atmosphere that existed between European peoples of 1914-18 : the Frenchman is the USA's Jew, the traitor, the coward, which plants knives in the back. These are paranoid ideas. Bush has declared "you are with us or you are against us"… your enemies are "evil's axis"… A deeply thought political theory which reminds me of older simplistic speeches. Believe the experience of "old Europe", who knows a lot about the matter, and is not proud of it : your war has already begun, you're under propaganda, and rational arguments don't prevail any more.

France was on the Gulf ten years ago, when Irak invaded its neighbour, and when the coalition was covered by the UN to free Kuwait.

According to the NATO alliance, France made clear during the first hours after the 11th September that it was ready to respect its engagements if necessary.

But with the future Anglo-Saxon crusade against Bagdad, things are very different. The OTAN was a defensive alliance against the Pact of Varsovia. To be an ally of the USA doesn't mean to give its allegiance to the USA. It means, in case of aggression by another state, that solidarity becomes effective. Irak has not yet attacked anyone. NATO should have nothing to do with "preventive wars".

Can't you all simply understand this : as you are so powerful, rich, and influent, it's more courageous for France to refuse to engage in this war. There will be retaliation against France for such an attitude. To send a few planes in the Gulf and drop a few bombs, just like the UK or Italy, would have been so simple for France.

French people are not the stupid blind nationalists that your propaganda is pretending they are. French people know they have lost their weight in international politics. But they don't want to abandon their sovereignty to an other organisation than the European union. Is it so scandalous that they want to be free and independent ?

Well, it's true that "we are not with you". Because this is not a war for Irak's freedom and democracy. This is not even a war against terrorism ; this war will create thousands of new terrorists full of hate for America. A government only makes war for its own interest. This war is for the Iraki oil, and to be more independent of Saudi Arabia, the country of the 11th September terrorists, where Al Qaida money comes from. It's a war to completely change the Middle-East and so the world-wide energetic map. I find logical for the USA to defend their interests. The powerful countries have always acted like this. It's cynic and amoral, but, somehow, "natural". But stop talking about democracy, and the Good against Evil. This is not Starwars. This is not a Tolkien's story.

S. Hussein is a dictator, he has massacred and tortured. He probably owns and surely has owned chemical and biological weapons. But what about Libya, Iran, North Korea, China in Tibet, Russia in Chechnya, Israel in Palestine, etc… ? If democracy in Irak is the aim, why does it become urgent right now ? Were the Afghans free when the Talibans were installed to stabilise a country where pipe-lines had to go through ?

France is a traitor, France is isolated - isolated with the rest of the world except the OTAN. That's what your leaders need to make you believe because they don't want you to know that you have mainly a simple Anglo-Saxon coalition. OTAN : approximately 20 countries with the new eastern members - less France, Germany, and Benelux. The rest of the world : Asia, Africa, South America, the Middle East… And the rest of the world fears you but it doesn't love you.

Is it so necessary for the USA to crush all possibility of counterbalancing power ? Do they complain about the treason of an ally or the independence of one of their own "satellite countries" ? They have succeeded in being hated by the whole Moslem world - which owns the main oil reserves. Is it so enjoyable that they now need to invective and humiliate the western European countries trying to build their political union ? Do they love so much to be hated ?

To conclude, here's the dream your government is currently destroying by its politics in western Europe - it was made by an "old", "disloyal", "nationalist", "chauvinist" Frenchman (even a bit socialist, what a monster ! …) :

"Un jour viendra où vous, France, vous, Russie, vous, Angleterre, vous, Allemagne, vous toutes, nations du continent, sans perdre vos qualités distinctes et votre glorieuse individualité, vous vous fondrez étroitement dans une unité supérieure et vous constituerez la fraternité européenne, absolument comme la Bretagne, la Bourgogne, la Lorraine, l'Alsace se sont fondues dans la France […]. Un jour viendra où l'on verra ces deux groupes immenses, les Etats-Unis d'Amérique, les Etats-Unis d'Europe, placés en face l'un de l'autre, se tendant la main par-dessus les mers, échangeant leurs produits, leur commerce, leur industrie, leurs arts, leurs génies, défrichant le globe, colonisant les déserts, améliorant la création sous le regard du Créateur."

VICTOR HUGO, 1849.

(The day will come when you, France, you, Russia, you, England, you, Germany, all of you, nations of the continent, without losing your distinct qualities and your glorious individualities, you will melt closely into a superior unity and you will constitute the European brotherhood, absolutely as Brittany, Burgundy, Lorraine, Alsace have melted into France […]. The day will come when we'll see those two huge groups, the United States of America, the United States of Europe, facing each other, offering hand beyond the seas, exchanging their products, their commerce, their industry, their arts, their genius, clearing the globe, colonising the deserts, improving the creation under the look of the Creator.)


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: axisofweasels; bedwettingmonkeys; cantspellbaghdad; cheeseeater; elderberries; france; gimmealatte; hamster; ineedazot; isurrender; megazot; moosebitsister; sameggsspamspam; spamspam; spamspambeansspam; spamspamspamspam; surrenderingagain; wavethewhiteflag; wheresmywine; zot; zotmeplease
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To: PierreEsbaillart
"iraq has not yet attack anyone". Is this idiot less than 12 years old? More than a decade ago, not only did iraq attack Iran, but also Kuwait, and the Kurds. This rant is pure french BS. Everything said in FR about the frogs are right on target.
121 posted on 01/28/2003 8:30:21 PM PST by desertcry
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To: PierreEsbaillart
This a-hole doesn't have a clue. That's why he and most french suck.
122 posted on 01/28/2003 8:31:30 PM PST by Pushi
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To: Oztrich Boy
"Remember boys, the wogs begin at Calais."

(English officer to his men, overheard on a troop transport to France)
123 posted on 01/28/2003 8:32:01 PM PST by mosby
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To: Burkeman1
It would take some culinary magic to make a crow palatable. Funny thing is, that's about the situation with French cooking in general. You hear all this noise like it's only the French who know how to cook, but the truth is they don't have the land area to have herds of beef cattle that we do. Their idea of "beef" is some poor old cow which can't give milk anymore after 20 years, i.e. something we'd either bury or make glue out of, and they have to have fancy recipes or the dogs wouldn't eat it.

The basic reality is that I could walk into a McDonalds outlet ten minutes from now and eat a better meal than anybody in France will eat today for under five dollars.

124 posted on 01/28/2003 8:35:44 PM PST by merak
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To: Brett66
....when you are overrun by the islamists... Too late, they have already surrendered months back.
125 posted on 01/28/2003 8:37:45 PM PST by desertcry
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To: MadIvan
Nicely done, Ivan!
126 posted on 01/28/2003 8:39:50 PM PST by desertcry
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To: dighton; general_re; BlueLancer; hellinahandcart; Poohbah; MadIvan
Zut, alors.
127 posted on 01/28/2003 8:40:01 PM PST by aculeus (Or is that Zot, alors?)
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To: desertcry
It attacked Iran with basically our blessing and indirect aid. It attacked Kurds within it's own borders. It attacked Kuwait and was driven out after Bush I brokered a deal among a large coalition that authorized only the expelling of Iraq from Kuwait and nothing else. The reason for war is not that he has attacked anyone but that he might- and that- is a revolutionary and unprecedented doctrine. That coupled with the Bush administration announcement that the United States reserves the right to attack anyone we deem to be a threat (another eyebrow raising and curious foreign policy announcement) could possibly be the reason that Europe ain't jumping up and down with joy over the prospect of going to war with Iraq.
128 posted on 01/28/2003 8:43:07 PM PST by Burkeman1
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To: merak
Not saying I love French food. But I did try snail (I have a policy of trying every food at least once) and I liked it very much.
129 posted on 01/28/2003 8:46:00 PM PST by Burkeman1
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To: merak
Their idea of beef is "Trigger."

As for cooking, they are well behind the Italians.

130 posted on 01/28/2003 8:49:12 PM PST by piasa (Those who sit on fences soon cut off circulation to their family jewels.)
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To: PierreEsbaillart
The United States should attack Paris first. What are the French going to do? Fight back?
131 posted on 01/28/2003 8:52:50 PM PST by Dec31,1999
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To: Oztrich Boy
Are you saying it's very dangerous to be a friend of france?
I think you'r absolutely right! Beware krauts, your turn has come. If you think WWI, and WWII was bad, asks the Brits whats in store for you.
132 posted on 01/28/2003 8:53:35 PM PST by desertcry
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To: MadIvan
Good job, I see the Frenchman had not the courage to remain on the field.

My response was such that it locked up my computer and I had to shut her down, which means my little literary molotov cocktail was lost before it was ever cast.

*sniff* Oh well, the tagline does describe Pierre tot he hilt.

:o(

133 posted on 01/28/2003 9:01:44 PM PST by piasa (Those who sit on fences soon cut off circulation to their family jewels.)
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To: Henk
That's just what I was thinking!

But you forgot the "improving the creation under the look of the Creator" part.

We're attempting to do that, too, ya know. Getting rid of those like Saddam will help improve the creation (Earth). :)

134 posted on 01/28/2003 9:16:33 PM PST by chantal7
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To: Burkeman1
9.11.01 and the rise of terrorism have change the rules of the game. Are you saying that we should trust saddam not to sell, give , or give access to bin laden and his gang iraq's MWD. And we should wait for the smoking chemical, and bio weapons to explode in our face because we want the french's, and german's approval before we take saddam out?
I hope that's not what you mean.
135 posted on 01/28/2003 9:17:21 PM PST by desertcry
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To: desertcry
9/11? We were attacked with box cutters not WMD. How does that anything to do with Iraq at all? 19 men got into this country and highjacked four planes with box cutters. No chemicals, No bio weapons, no nukes. And besides Sadaam there are a dozen other countries with crazy dictators that WMD programs that don't like us. We lived with it before 9/11- hell we lived with it for 50 years. I don't think you appreciate what a revolutionary foreign policy doctrine Bush is extolling. Why anyone would expect the rest of the world- even our allies- to accept a foreign policy that reserves the right to premptively attack percieved threats to us is beyond me. What Bush wants- an unprovoked attack against Iraq (quibble all you want- that is what it will be) is revolutionary in world diplomatic history. To expect the rest of the world to passively accept that and be happy with it is not realistic.

Could the Iraqi's give WMD to AQ and could it be used here and kill thousands? Yes. Just as easily a rouge Russian mercenary nuclear scientist could be working right now in a cave somewhere building a suitcase nuke for AQ as well. Is invading Iraq going to make us more or less likely to be the target of terrorist attack in the future? Many things could happen. It still doesn't mean it is going to. Bush's foreign policy is very radical and a break from hundreds of years of tradition and diplomatic history. It is radical and radical change brings about a million unforseen consequences.

136 posted on 01/28/2003 9:33:17 PM PST by Burkeman1
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To: PierreEsbaillart; dighton; BlueLancer
So tell me, Pierre---were you referred to this site by a college student from Germany, by any chance?

And when can we expect your friends?

;-x
137 posted on 01/28/2003 9:38:24 PM PST by hellinahandcart
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To: PierreEsbaillart
And the rest of the world fears you but it doesn't love you..."'tis better that the Prince be feared than loved" - Machiavelli (and lest you think this is just bitter and outmoded rhetoric from some cynical opportunist who left the earth five hundred years ago, read Michael Ledeen's Machiavelli on Modern Leadership:Why Machiavelli's Iron Rules Are as Timely and Important Today as Five Centuries Ago - maybe you'll understand mieux les americains)...
138 posted on 01/28/2003 9:41:16 PM PST by Intolerant in NJ
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To: PierreEsbaillart
Illogic is your forte.
139 posted on 01/28/2003 9:41:59 PM PST by dennisw (http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/weblog.php)
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To: Burkeman1
The age of innocence is over. A one-world force is necessary, which will be dominated by us or them. Which would you prefer?
140 posted on 01/28/2003 9:44:18 PM PST by Dec31,1999
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