Posted on 03/13/2003 9:41:15 PM PST by ConservativeMan55
This entry won't deal with my professor but with an argument I had with a girl on the bus ride home. She was a hardcore liberal.
It got started because I was telling her about my Business Law professor who is a hardcore liberal. She said she would probably agree with him.
Her
We can't just go around the world forcing our views on everybody else! I'm so sick of us getting involved in every conflict! Everybody in America is against this war, and George Bush doesn't have a chance in hell of getting re-elected.
Me
What do you mean he doesn't have a chance in hell of being re-elected? There is a ton of support for this war. If you don't think Bush will be re-elected, then who do you suppose is going to beat him?
Her
I don't know man, but I think they are going to find somebody soon...I hope. Bush is on a one man crusade, and I hate it when people go on one man crusades.
Me
Bush will be re-elected overwhelmingly. This war will be short, and the economy will rebound. By the way do you know who is the front runner for the Democratic Nomination? Its Al Sharpton! Do you think Al Sharpton is going to beat George Bush?
Her
Who is Al Sharpton?
Me I rest my case. Bush campaigned in the 2002 elections and won the Senate back, and gained in the House. Do you know what issue he campaigned on? He campaigned on National Security and Iraq. If his poll numbers go down any, which I have seen no evidence of, it will be because he hasn't done something about Iraq soon enough. He campaigned for his Senators, and they were elected.
Her
Iraq wasn't the one that flew the planes into the buildings, it was the other guy. There is no connection. Why aren't we going after North Korea, or any of these other countries who have nuclear weapons?
Me
North Korea and Iran and the other countries have announced they have the weapons. Iraq is attempting to hide theirs. Second of all, you said earlier you were sick of us getting involved in other countries conflicts. We have announced this is a regional conflict, and are trying to get China and Japan to pressure North Korea into complying. So you are just going to hope there was no connection between Iraq and Al-Queda and leave it? If you lived in Iraq wouldn't you want to be freed? How do you explain the defectors from Iraq who say most people in Iraq are for this war? Did you know Saddam thinks the Gulf War never ended? Did you know Saddam has vowed revenge? Did you know he tried to kill George Bush Sr?
Her
Its not my judgement to make. The Iraqi people should make the judgement themselves. I am not qualified to make that judgement. I agree that if somebody bombed France, Germany probably wouldn't help out.
(This is the point I start getting frustrated because liberals always say that its not their judgement to make, so I reworded the question to make it a little tougher for them to answer with talking points. Hehehehehehehe!
Me What do you think is going to happen when we bomb Iraq? Do you think the Iraqi's are just going to sit in their living rooms and yawn and say.."Oh crap they've forced liberty on us" Heck No!! They're going to be dancing in the streets! Screaming at the top of their lungs at the oppurtunity provided to them! How do you think the Iraqi's will react? Seeing as how you say you have their best interest in mind?
Her (At this point she hung her head, and said quietly...yes that is the point that I hear most conservatives make)
Me
All the countries were for us liberating Kuwait in the Gulf War. We liberated Kuwait and as a result of that we gave Saddam a list of rules he has to follow. He never followed any of them. He refuses to listen to the UN. The only way he will comply is by force. Do you think those protests in Iraq are genuine? Or do you think they are staged by the government?
Her
Our government wouldn't want people going around here saying "Go Iraq" They wouldn't like that. We have got to get the Israel and Palestine situation figured out. Somebody needs to tell these guys to work this stuff out, and promote peace over there.
Me
How do you propose we promote peace with Israel and Palestine? While it is still a minority, I have heard many liberal columnists including Ellen Ratner say they hope we lose this war. You hear NO dissention in Iraq.
Her Somebody has to tell Israel and Palestine to work their situation out.
Me The UN passed a resolution on it a long time ago, but the Palestinians don't seem to be listening to it. Shows you how well the UN resolutions work. Did you know that after we bombed Afghanistan 2 million people have moved back into the country?
Her Well I will say in support of the war that the conditions those Afghani women were living under was brutal oppression.
Me Exactly! Now they are going to school and learning and doing all sorts of things they were never allowed to do before. Like speak for instance.
Sounds like you're skulking off in Sore Loserman mode because I called you on producing facts. If you pulled the info from the Wash. Post, just post the link, we'll read it. Find that poll, show me the wording. I'm not disbelieving you; I'm simply saying, you have not given one single piece of evidence to back up your opinions. We can give stats on ours. We *will*, if you ask.
It's standard procedure to ask someone to back up their opinions with fact when they toss out opinions like you did. Why is it too much for you to find the very same poll you're quoting, and post it here, for all of us to see? I take it you came here to try to debate; to change minds; not just to bleat, right? I mean, you do feel your position is the correct position, am I wrong here? If so, what hard evidence do you have to BACK THAT POSITION UP? That's all I'm asking. *Show me the money*, so to speak.
If you define having fun as being roundly & soundly trounced by reasonable debate, then, uhm, you did have your fun. You seem to have some NASCENT sense of humor; just try not taking yourself so seriously and post your evidence. We will listen. I promise you, we will listen. That's right -- us horrible, intolerant, evil conservatives will (and have) listened to your arguments, but we just have this thing about wanting, you know, evidence. You might as well be spouting Roswell nonsense if you're not going to back up your statements with facts.
I'm afraid I won't see you at the march, because I have nothing to march for right now (besides, I have to work -- a *lot*) -- since my side has won. We're going to war. And it's going to be quick, it's going to liberate the Iraqi people, it's going to be a just war, and when it's over, we are all going to be laughing SO damn hard at you folks it ain't even funny. :-)
March all you want. It is your right. It's the same right that my friends in the military, and thousands of others like them, will be fighting to protect -- not that you care, of course, it seems the anti-war crowd would like to forget that the freedoms we enjoy today in America were bought at a tremendous cost to human lives.
Nobody wants war. People die in war. Like I said, I have friends who will be fighting this. I don't want them to die, either. But sometimes WAR IS NECESSARY. And war can do great things.
I guess all I'm saying, babe, is -- Give War a Chance.
:-)
And hey, I really do give you credit for showing up and posting your opinion, knowing that you were going to take a lot of heat on it. I'd just like to see you back that position up with facts. That's all. It's the first question you ask about ANY opinion, piece of news, whatever -- what's the source? Where's this coming from? It's Rhetoric 101! You sound mildly intelligent, what do you not understand about that?
Don't give me this blather that you "forgot" where you got them, either. If this stuff is so obvious, and "anyone who knows anything" knows about it, you should have no problem finding stuff that backs you up in .02 seconds using Google. You're trying to back out without giving any facts. I'm not going to let you without repeatedly throwing this in your face. We want the sources; we want the facts.
The reason you can't produce them isn't because you can't find them, or because you forgot where they were, it's because they *don't exist*. The facts are on *our* side. Period.
Prove me wrong! C'mon! I remember a time when a liberal wouldn't back down so easily -- but that was before the lifestyle liberals came around, you know, folks who protest because it's "hip". Not that I'm implying you fall into that category. You're probably just horribly misinformed. However, we can't fix your "information impairment issue" unless you tell us where you got these "facts" and polls from in the first place.
But my guess is that now that we've exposed you as just another boring peacenik who throws out inflammatory statements and asserts them as fact while blatantly refusing to show us your sources...you'll just run away and not come back and pat yourself on the back, somehow thinking you've "won" (I guess this is same way you guys get to "Bush is a bigger threat to peace than Saddam Hussein", etc. -- the Vast Moron-wing Conspiracy...)
Bleh. By the way, are you French by any chance? :-)
Yes.
There are a few liberals of conscience left that one can debate with, but you have to look *hard*. It's really sad, in a way, I mourn the passing of liberalism as it once was. Don't get me wrong, they're always horribly wrong, but...well, say, I met Dukakis, and there was a guy who was, on a personal level, just...a *great* guy. TOTALLY, utterly, completely, horribly, dangerously wrong about everything, but meant very well, believed in it all, you could look him in the eye and trust him, and you could also...actually debate with him, sort of.
After Socialism died, I figure, it went bad for liberalus notSOstupidus. Death of Socialism would be the equivalent of someone showing us hard, indisputable proof that, say, free markets don't work. We'd be shattered. *They* were shattered. So the party began a slow slide into degeneracy punctuated by moments of pure tantrum fits because their false god has fallen and he can't get up. Today, it's just...trash, with the occasional alright naive young person who's just read too much Marx, is still hitting the bong too hard, and thinks "it's all about oil", who will eventually, one day, have to get a job, like the rest of us...and bills...and mommy and daddy stop sending the checks...at which point said generic young person will come to their senses and start voting Republican. ;-)
1) our troops in Saudi Arabia (there because SH invaded Kuwait),
2) our embargo of Iraq (there to "contain" SH... and nowadays libs are all for "containing" him and starving Iraqi children),
3) our support for Israel while Israel won't create a Palestinian state (because of ongoing terrorism, which SH encourages with his $25,000 payment to each family of a suicide bomber.)
All three reasons lead back to Saddam.
I resemble that remark.
Remember the Frost quote -- "Show me a young man who's a conservative and I'll show you a man with no heart; show me an old man who's a liberal and I'll show you a man with no head."
I always heard that was Churchill.
I could be wrong, I'll check up.
In either case, what does it mean if you were a Libertarian when you were young and a conservative as you got older? ;-) I need to contact Churchill and/or Frost via Oujia board and ask their opinion on this.
It means you started out pretty promising but then got religion! LOL!!
Hehe, good one. :-)
You were right, it was WSC. The exact quote is, "Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has no heart; and any man who is over 30, and not a conservative, has no brains."
However, I know why I got confused (besides the fact that I have no heart), because it was Frost who wrote:
"I never dared to be radical when young For fear it would make me conservative when old."
...which makes more sense, anyway. ;-)
I think Sharon has been very vociferous in telling the Palestinians to start working things out.
Prolly has someone else pick out her underwear.
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