I need Prayer

[sonsofliberty2000]

Hello all,

Sorry it has been awhile since I posted with an update. I am happy to say I finally did find a job! The only bad news is that it is in telemarketing (something I hate but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do).

The best news is that I have decided to go to college full time. After discussing it with my college career counselor I have settled on going into computer networking. I am signing up next semester with 13 for 13 credit hours, working during the day.

Thanks again for all who have prayed for me.

I do have one last question off the topic. My fiance and I have been contemplating switching churches to a church we both feel more comfortable in. The pastor of the church I go to now is the pastor who is marrying us and we feel bad about switching since the church he runs has been slowly losing members for reasons I will not discuss here. Also my fiance's mother and family are members of the church and her mother tends to lay a guilt trip on her for not coming to that church and us attending the other. My fiance has left it to me to decide what we should do after we have discussed it between ourselves since she thinks I should be the one to decide where we attend. I am tore between the churches because I also am working on the website of the one church we were attending regulary (for no cost and I am behind schedule since I have been busy trying to find work and one of the pastors continuosly makes me feel bad about this when we talk) and the church I feel at home in. What would you decide fellow FReepers?

Nick

[rintense]

Best of luck, Nick!

[Keith in Iowa]

>>What would you decide fellow FReepers?

If there's a church where you & your spouse to be feel at home, go there and don't worry what anyone else says about it.

[KSCITYBOY]

The only thing I know for sure is: Unless your dead things always work out. PS: They work out even better when you believe in yourself and work your tail off.

[IncPen]

Glad to hear things are moving for you....

My 2 cents?

I'd go with the new church.

Finish the obligations with the old church, as you need to, but don't make any excuses why or where you worship

As for the pastor who's to marry you, if marrying in the old church makes you uncomfortable, perhaps he'd marry you in the new church- with that pastors' blessing (and concelebration, maybe?)

Remember that religion is a construct of man, and that faith need not respect man's boundaries

Follow your heart, you won't be answering to man for what you did in service of your faith

Best of luck with the new job and wedding

[Auntie Mame]

Congratulations! This is great news. Telemarketing is good training. I knew this guy who was in telemarketing, best salesman I've EVER seen. He made TONS of money selling things like light bulbs to doctors. His hours were terrible, though, something like 6:00 a.m. he had to be there.

Anyway, thank you for checking in.

I have no comment about the churches except church shouldn't make you feel bad, it should make you feel good.

[Quix]

What a kettle of nettles!

Hmmmmmm

Lord, Your wisdom is clearly needed. Please make it plain to Nick and his fiancee.

If I understand it correctly . . .

1) The pastor of the church you wish to leave, is marrying you.
2) Future mother-in-law attends there.
3) More than you are leaving that church.
4) The pastor of the church you wish to go to and are evidently attending most frequently now--is giving you a guilt trip for not finishing a free website complex set of tasks for him/that church.

OK.

Pretend (A) that you are the pastor of the mother-in-law's church.

(A)
Pastor A, I/we need to clear some relationship things with you.
1) We appreciate that you have agreed to marry us. We are comfortable, blessed, thrilled with that.
2) We wish it were that simple. Alas, we really feel more comfortable at another church. We even feel called to attend that church instead of this one. But we wish to have no ill feelings.
3) Sadly, we are aware that a number of people are leaving this church and that you are human and very likely to have strong feelings about us leaving too. We cannot solve the problems regarding _______________ we do feel it would be wise for you to prayerfully consider these points on side (A) _____________________________________ and these points on side (B)_______________________. But frankly, we don't know how easy or quick anyone could solve that set of problems.

4) But we also can't pretend to be remotely responsible for that set of challenges.

5) And, starting a new marriage, a heavy duty college program and trying to do something decent on a very challenging job fully of tons of rejection at best--I am just not up to even facing the challenges the above set of problems present--regardless of how right and righteous either or both sides are.

6) Now, I don't know that there's any great angst or rush to say or do things in the least bit of an unkind way. And, we'd be interested in your suggestions about timing and manner of our changing churches in a more formal or clear way.

. . .

PASTOR (B)

Dear Pastor (B) we are looking forward to committing more fully to your church.

1) As you know, I will be beginning a new marriage, a challenging new university program and a new job full of tons of rejection at best. I really need my church life to be a kind, warm, nurturing, loving place with relatively few demands and a lot of safety.

2) I am serious about finishing the website for you. However, if my timeline is not so comfortable for you--I strongly encourage you to get someone else to finish it. I could recommend these 3 people.

3) At best I could imagine getting the job 90% done by _________________ date. At worst, 50% done by ___________________ date.

4) I'm not in need of any guilt flinging in my direction about it given all the pressures on my life at present. If you feel the need to pressure me about it, then probably I'm not the one to finish it. If you can trust me to do what I can as I can and that that would be comfortable with you, I'm willing to keep chipping away at it.

5) We like your church for this list of reasons:
__________________________________________________

6) We really want to be a meaningful, participating part of your church life. We appreciate the preaching and teaching and programs. But we also REALLY NEED to keep our relationship with you clear and clothed in Christ's love and understanding as well as mutual support from the beginning.

7) So, we will try and do our best to communicate toward that end and hope and trust you will, too.

---

Nick,

You will likely feel like being less bold and candid unless I am guessing wrong. You might could soften some of the language though I don't know about that. Maybe not.

I wouldn't try to be less candid. Usually it doesn't work. It just delays hard feelings and makes them worse. Besides, The Bible seems to say we need to go to bed on clear relationships--or even not allow the sun to go down on clogged up relationships.

You certainly need everything clear you can get and keep clear given all you have outlined on your plate.

I wouldn't exactly recommend loans given the end times--especially Fed insured govgt loans for education. But the idea of telemarketing and a new marriage and a new church and a new univ program that's not likely to be super easy. . . . how much emotional etc. resiliance and toughness do you have--not do you aspire to--but do you have?

How quickly do you bounce back from disappointments?

How much do you take things personally that are not your problem?

How much of a people-pleaser are you?

How much of a perfectionist?

How much do you try and keep EVERYONE AROUND YOU happy at your expense?

You reallllllllllllllllllllly do NOT need to set yourself up to crash and burn at the beginning of a new marriage.

If you are some flavor of an emotional/psychological/relational tender-hearted but TOUGH MARINE--I suppose--I should just say GOPHER BAROQUE!

But if you're not--you may need to deliberately lay in some adjustments and tenaciously stick to them.

Blessings,

[sonsofliberty2000]

Only one thing you misunderstood:

One of the pastors at the OLD church is giving the guilt trip.

Nick

[sonsofliberty2000]

Oh and just in case you thought I was I'm not a Marine. I would never let that misconception keep going.

[Xenalyte]

The pastor of the church I go to now is the pastor who is marrying us and we feel bad about switching since the church he runs has been slowly losing members for reasons I will not discuss here.

This sounds akin to the pseudo-logic I used not to break up with my first boyfriend, who did not deserve someone as splendid as I am. (I know it sounds glib, but sometimes you gotta realize you're too good for that.) I told Xena's Mom that he needed me, and I would feel bad leaving him during a bad time in his life.

It is not y'all's fault that the church is losing members, any more than it's a reason to stay. If a hotel is overrun with roaches, do you feel bad for the hotel manager?

Not that I'm drawing an inch-for-inch comparison, mind you. Sounds like you have enough going on in your life - and GOOD things, at that - to be worrying about being part of a church that's going down.

(And yes, I have belonged to a church that went down under the weight of doctrinal differences. It does not rule, but unless you're the pastor, there's nothing you can do about it.)

[Quix]

Understand.

I think, falling asleep here, that I was responding to the article.

Blessings,

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so much for the update! Praise God!!!

With regard to your question, I suggest prayer and patient listening in the spirit.

[Quix]

Pastor (A),

I must confess, I find it extremely uncomfortable when you speak in a way that comes across to me as guilt flinging about not getting the website done.

I noted or should have, that I have limited time. That I'm willing to do what I can in my available time for free. It seems that's not an acceptable contingency for you. So, I suggest you hire one of the following people to finish the website. It's OK. I have plenty on my plate and I understand you want the website up. I should have warned you more clearly about how long it takes. And I should have registered more consciously how big a task it is.

In any case, I need to clear the relationship about it. I can only do what I can do. And that will be come less instead of more as I cope with a new job; new school program and a new marriage.

I'm really uncomfortable feeling pressure about the website when I'm donating time that's increasingly precious to priceless for me. In fact, I'm not willing to receive any more pressure about it. So, perhaps you need to pray about what your priorities are. If you are going to feel anxious or unsatisfied if the website is not fininshed quickly, then I'm not the person to continue on the hook for the project.

etc. etc. etc.

Hope all this role playing sort of thought experiment is useful for you.

Blessings,

[oceanperch]

It may be a great idea to have all your ducks in a row before committing to marraige. MO

[krb]

Well, one month out of work is not that bad in the grand scheme of things. It says good things about you that your freak-out warning system is kicking in so early :-)

[error99]

Great news - you got a job.
Great news - you are going to go to college.
You don't feel comfortable talking to the pastor(s) about these things but you would come here and ask nearly total strangers?
My advice to you is that opinions and input on these other personal decisions are best not left to what you would get from 'cyber'-people.
You need to discuss those things with 'real' people.
You don't 'really' know me and should not take my advice too seriously.
(For all you know, I may be the evil one himself).
IF you REALLY feel comfortable with these organizations, THEN you should feel free enough to discuss these things with the pastor(s) in question without worrying about 'hurting their feelings'.
Isn't that why they are there?

[richardtavor]

Don't make it your responsibility, your mother
's, your pastor's or anyone else's. Pray to the heavenly Father that he put you in the place that he choses, and that he does so that you will absolutely know that it is he that has done it. Then give him the glory. Don't worry about details or the timing--seek the kingdom of G-d first, and these things will be added upon you. I pass on some prayers that he gave me during midnight hour sessions (look that up in your concordance.):

Spoken to me by G-d at the Midnight Hour 3/11/2003


Lamentations are many, Praises are few,
The word of the L-rd comes upon me,
And says the L-rd:
That that I am, I am not ; and that that I will become comes slowly,
For the flesh struggles with the spirit. Be of good cheer,
For the battle is won already. Strive after the spirit and not of the flesh,
And listen to the word of the L-rd.


HEAVEN

I was walking through a springtime meadow,
Basking in the sun.
The bright blue sky seemed to penetrate my soul,
Darkness, I could feel none.

I came upon a fellow, he seemed quite familiar.
His face had quite a smile.
I asked him if he knew this place-
He said he had known of it for a while.

I asked him if he knew me.
He said, yes, for all of your life.
I asked, “How could that be?”
He said, “I knew you in times of strife.”

“I knew you in times of joy, in times of fear,
in times of sickness and in health, in times of love,
in times of hate. I knew you during happiness and sadness,
in gladness and despair; I viewed you from above.”

“I knew the love in your heart and flesh..
I chose you before the beginning of time, and knew
That your love for me would grow as your faith was fresh.
That you would stumble, but not fall, for I loved
you for all time,
I promised to make a highway straight, so that you could
see yourself shine.

I asked, “why is that great city in the distance so beautiful,
It seems to be made of jewels, and shines throughout the World,
The wind blowing from the city is filled with a flowery fragrance.
How do I get to that golden city, and avoid the path of the world?

“My son, you are part of a large family;
many have come before you and many will come after you.
You were called according to my purpose.
And I have led, and will lead you to that place; I have been your refuge.”

“But father, why are those stripes still on your body?”
“My son, I received a stripe for every sin that you have committed.
I knew that you would stumble and hoped that you would not.
However, my blood has washed away the sins and they have been omitted.

“Follow me, my son, and we will go to the Golden City;
We will sit at the feet of the Father, and be with him forever.
He washes away the sins of the world, and is without pity,
Heavenly smoke pours from his nostrils; for all time we will be together.
“This is Heaven, my son. My stripes have been washed away by your love.
Your tears are wiped away by the love you have given,
And your transgressions are forgotten. Your father sees you from above.
You and I are one, as I am one with the Father; I have arisen.

And you have arisen in me. We will spend eternity together,
In the firm knowledge that nothing can separate us from our love of the Father,
And his love transcends the Universe and lasts forever.
The Father has always been, is, and will always be Abba, the eternal Father.


Richard Tavor
March 26, 2003
Written at the Midnight Hour


I hope these prayers give you comfort and inspiration. The hardest part is to realize that this flesh is only temporary. It is kind of like a balloon. People can recognize us by our balloon. (Flesh is kind of like the appearance of a balloon.) All balloons are different in appearance, but on the inside, rests air that supports the balloon. This balloon is like the vessel that we are. The air is the combination of G-d's spirit and ours. When on this earth, our oneness with G-d is contained within this fleshy vessel. But, like the balloon that bursts,(as our flesh vessel dies) the air escapes and is no longer contained. G-d's Spirit and ours is one, like his son's and his are one, and are no longer confined by the flesh, by space or time. So when you chose the temple that you want to worship in, remember that that temple is you. G-d will find an earthly home for you if you will let him--just listen for his voice and obey.)

[WSGilcrest]

How are things going? Married? Still employed?

http://www.theinterviewwithgod.com/
http://www.pathways-to-peace.com/

[BlessedBeGod]

Prayers on the way. Good luck!

[sonsofliberty2000]

Hello,

Things are going well. I dd get married on July 4th to my lovly wife Lisa. I am now currently a full-time student pursuing my degree in computer networking. I am somewhat employed, doing 2 work-studys at the school and running the library at my aunt's Christian private school Speiro Academy. SO far so good I guess. Thanks to all who have prayed for my well being. You will all be in my prayers.