Posted on 02/21/2009 6:09:00 AM PST by kindred
Ignorance gone to seed is not something I feel any need to absorb.
GREAT POST.
THX.
Of course, I see the naysayers who seem to shuck and jive and rationalize away major portions of Scripture to avoid such truths ahve already been flinging about their irrational, ignorant, silliness.
Thankfully, God is not hindered in the world generally by their cluelessness—though it can hinder Him greatly in their lives.
Well, now you are just plain fabricating statements. “Similar” is a weasel word. It allows you to claim something that is not really true while looking all pious and such.
In the future, I would suggest you be a bit more careful with your claims.
Even in this very post to me you are implying that I am a hypocrite.
Just a caution. Shall I share your private mail to me with the group?
Their are similar in that they are both wrong and out of step with the Bible.
That’s your opinion, which you are more than entitled to hold. However, we are entitled to say the same things about your erroneous belief system (without using personal pejoratives, of course).
“I find dispensationalism “ungospelish” in it’s assumptions and implications,”
Having briefly read your backup, I think you are shooting at straw men. Dispensationalism does not require the idea that there are two concurrent methods of salvation.
Foe what other reasons do you find it “ungospelish”?
Another interesting theory, lots of speculation, but not really supported directly from the Bible.
You can not find a "day is as a thousand years" in the bible ?
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai
God is still revealing Himself, yes in the Word but also through his prophets. He always has spoken through prophets. It remains to be seen if these are true prophets or not and only time can tell that.
I’m not asking you to believe anything. I’m only relating what I read. Do what you will.
I’m not asking you to believe anything. I’m only relating what I read. Do what you will.
It's not a matter lightly brushed off.
If it's the word of God, I'd better believe it.
If it's not, but claims it is, you'd better not believe it.
TopCat, did God lie when He said He would keep His people alive until the end of days?
Having briefly read your backup, I think you are shooting at straw men. Dispensationalism does not require the idea that there are two concurrent methods of salvation.
Yes, I was bitten by a dispensationalist as a child. That explains it.
The two peoples of God scheme is definitional and axiomatic for dispensationalism. When you have two peoples of God, with distinctly different benefits, and different destinies, I'd say you have two gospels.
They're not always consistent in this, which is a good thing.
If you followed down the links in my FR personal page, you'd have come to this, whose outline I sketched in. The whole thing is worth a read. Granted, they're dealing with the situation 60-ish years ago, when also O. T. Allis was writing. Nevertheless, I can tell you that that old classic dispensationalism is alive and well out in the churches.
2. Dispensationalism, magnifying the distinction which is made between law and grace (which dispensationalists hold to be mutually exclusive—Chafer, Grace, p. 231 ff.), agrees that men are NOW saved by grace through faith, but teaches that in other dispensations men have been saved by “legal obedience.” “The point of testing is no longer legal obedience as the condition of salvation, but acceptance or rejection of Christ . . .“ (Scofield Reference Bible, p. 1115; also see Chafer, Dispensationalism, pp. 415-16; Grace, pp. 123, 124-126.) It also holds that after the present age of grace, there will be a reversion in the kingdom age to an extreme system of meritorious obligation. (Chafer, Dispensationalism, pp. 416, 440, 441, 443; Grace, p. 223.).....
Dispensationalism teaches that the two groups of God’s people, the Jewish Nation and the Christian Church, are entirely distinct bodies, and in the millennial kingdom will enjoy different blessings, the Jews enjoying earthly and material blessings, and the Church spiritual and heavenly blessings. Some Dispensationalists, like Dr. Chafer, continue this distinction in destiny into eternity, holding that in eternity there are three groups: the lost in hell, the earthly people of God on earth forever, and the Church, the heavenly people of God in heaven forever. (Dispensationalism, p. 448.) (I have heard this, with my own ears, from a dispensationalist teacher: The Jews are "an eternal earthly reproductive people of God.")
Read the whole thing -- recommended.
“The two peoples of God scheme is definitional and axiomatic for dispensationalism.”
Two distinct peoples of God is an easy doctrine to hold. It’s written all over the NT. I mean, how could you possibly miss that?
Two concurrent methods of salvation is heretical.
Obviously, you are grasping. First you use phrases like “idiot, fool, deceiver, numb scull, etc.” as if I have used those words to characterize my opponents (which I have not). Now you weasel word (as I predicted), objecting because I call folks like you “eschatologically naive”.
I just don't understand what it is about Reformed theology that turns it's adherents into mockers and scoffers of other Christians.
Yeah, whatever. You ought to look at the log in your own eye, IMO.
Hah. That's funny. I wish I had a nickel for every time that verse has been abused by a futurist. And it shows how little folks who quote it know their Old Testament.
“For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it is past, And like a watch in the night.” (Psalm 90:4)
There is absolutely no evidence that phrase is intended by God to demonstrate where we are in creation history. Peter was simply taking his readers back to Psalms. Our days here are nothing in the light of all eternity.
But if that is the sum total of what you are basing your theory on, you are welcome to it.
A personal word FROM God is not going to always be in the Bible. It’s apparent to me that you don’t believe in prophecy, perhaps you think it was over when Christ came. I don’t.
God never lies, but that does not mean you are hearing him accurately.
As He says also in Hosea: "I will call them My people, who were not My people, And her beloved, who was not beloved." "And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them, 'You are not My people,' There they shall be called sons of the living God." (Rom. 9:25,26)All those who trust in the living God by the blood of Messiah, Jesus Christ, are God's people. There is no more racial distinction.For you (the Church) are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will dwell in them And walk among them. I will be their God, And they shall be My people." (1 Cor. 6:16)
“Obviously, you are grasping. First you use phrases like “idiot, fool, deceiver, numb scull, etc.” “
I said you have used similar terms. I then listed your choice of words.
That’s just the facts. And here’s your words again...
“Naive, arrogant, creators of “fraudulent lists”, easily duped, makers of “wacky lists purporting to know the end is near”, Prophets (Profits) Guild”
Others, (like the post of RJR_fan sited above,) have used far worse language than I initially listed.
++++++++++++++++++++++
“Yeah, whatever. You ought to look at the log in your own eye, IMO.”
I’m not mocking you. I’m not scoffing at you.
I’m asking you why you feel the need to belittle your theological opponents.
Jeremiah 31
31Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
36If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.
So, is the seed of Israel ever cast off? Is it ever ended? Wasn't tis written 500 to 600 years before Christ? Wasn't it written to genetic Jews, not Jews in name only?
Not necessarily- It can be argued that the generation that offended the Lord was already in existence. Therefore, the punishment was levied against everyone over a certain age, or relatively, the generation in charge at the time. Folks under the age of 30 years, certainly those under the age of 20 years likely did live to see the promised land.
There are legitimate reasons to use the longer generational definition. Of course, as my previous post on this thread suggests, I believe it all to be speculative until the next mile marker approaches. We see through the glass dimly.
What is unquestionably a sign is the establishment of Israel as a nation for the first time in 2000 years. That has occured.
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