Posted on 07/22/2010 9:04:57 PM PDT by Salvation
There is NO NEW CREED. It is just a new (and more accurate) translation of the creed. It will be used in the Mass starting on the first Sunday of Advent, 2011. Many prayers are changing - all for the better. More traditional renderings, closer to the Latin.
It will be a good thing (although confusing for some people at first).
http://www.usccb.org/romanmissal/
Thanks! I read that late night at first. When someone says change. My eyebrow goes up.
NO! You have it in reverse. We say Begotten not made. It does not mean created! Or Made!
Such a mind was Arius(Arianism), who proposed, instead, that Jesus was a sort of godlet, not God with a capital “G.”
He preached that Jesus was sort of like a super archangel: greater than all other creatures (and so, “divine” in comparison with the rest of creation), but not actually God. This seems abstract, but it actually constituted an assault on the most fundamental basics of the Christian faith, because if Jesus is not God, he can neither save nor give eternal life (that is, the life of God) to us.
The Council of Nicaea, in resolving the controversy, insists (following St. John) that Christ is “begotten, not made.” Why? For the same reason we insist that our children are not the same as statues.
An artist makes a statue; he begets a son. To beget is to share your nature with another being. God made human beings. But God the Father begets the Son eternally. The Son shares his Father’s nature. And since the nature of the Father is to have no beginning, the Son also has no beginning. He is begotten from all eternity by the Father. In him is eternal life from the Father, and, therefore, he can share that life with us creatures.
For eternal life originates only in God, not in creatures.
The eternity of Christ is a stunning thing to contemplate: that this manual laborer who stands before us with dirty feet, calloused hands, and a rough up-country accent is, in fact, the Being who has existed from all eternity in the blinding light of the heart of God, sharing completely in his glory and showing forth the express image of the Holy One who hurled all the galaxies into being.
It is rather a lot to take in.
It’s no wonder the Son “emptied himself,” as Paul says, becoming human and dimming his splendor so that we could see him with our mortal eyes. And yet, even dimmed, he remains the Light of the world.
When you look at the sun, do you see the sun or the light from the sun? Obviously, to do the one is to do the other. Christianity says the same thing is happening when you look at Christ. If you’ve seen the Son, you’ve seen the Father, for the Son is the exact representation of the Father, just as sunlight carries with it the exact representation of the sun from which it came. That is why the creed calls Jesus “Light from Light.”
http://www.ncregister.com/site/article/17439/
Nice thought!
Good article!
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NO! You have it in reverse. We say Begotten not made. It does not mean created! Or Made! Such a mind was Arius(Arianism), who proposed, instead, that Jesus was a sort of godlet, not God with a capital “G.” He preached that Jesus was sort of like a super archangel: greater than all other creatures (and so, “divine” in comparison with the rest of creation), but not actually God. This seems abstract, but it actually constituted an assault on the most fundamental basics of the Christian faith, because if Jesus is not God, he can neither save nor give eternal life (that is, the life of God) to us. The Council of Nicaea, in resolving the controversy, insists (following St. John) that Christ is “begotten, not made.” Why? For the same reason we insist that our children are not the same as statues. An artist makes a statue; he begets a son. To beget is to share your nature with another being. God made human beings. But God the Father begets the Son eternally. The Son shares his Father’s nature. And since the nature of the Father is to have no beginning, the Son also has no beginning. He is begotten from all eternity by the Father. In him is eternal life from the Father, and, therefore, he can share that life with us creatures. For eternal life originates only in God, not in creatures. The eternity of Christ is a stunning thing to contemplate: that this manual laborer who stands before us with dirty feet, calloused hands, and a rough up-country accent is, in fact, the Being who has existed from all eternity in the blinding light of the heart of God, sharing completely in his glory and showing forth the express image of the Holy One who hurled all the galaxies into being. It is rather a lot to take in. It’s no wonder the Son “emptied himself,” as Paul says, becoming human and dimming his splendor so that we could see him with our mortal eyes. And yet, even dimmed, he remains the Light of the world. When you look at the sun, do you see the sun or the light from the sun? Obviously, to do the one is to do the other. Christianity says the same thing is happening when you look at Christ. If you’ve seen the Son, you’ve seen the Father, for the Son is the exact representation of the Father, just as sunlight carries with it the exact representation of the sun from which it came. That is why the creed calls Jesus “Light from Light.” http://www.ncregister.com/site/article/17439/
The word 'begotten' means 'procreated' 'generated'(Webster 1828)
Jn. 1:1 doesn't say, 'in the beginning was the Son' it says in the 'beginnng was the Word'.
If the Son was eternally 'begotten' it is saying he CAME from the Father-in eternity!
This is Platonic nonsense.
The Plan of God deals with how the three members of the Trinity were going to interact in time.
Hence, the different names given to them in time.
The Son was begotten in TIME 'Thou art my Son, THIS DAY, have I begotten thee' (Ps.2:7)
The 'begetting' of the 'Son' (who is the Word (Rev.19:13) occured in time, not eternity.
Now, the confusion is simply that since we NOW know Him as the Son, that He was always known as the Son, when He wasn't.
In all honesty. I have read many theology books. I have never heard of this before. When I was looking it up I came across some who imply this same notion. But I do not see it in early Christianity( Church Fathers). The original argument is about divinity becoming human. Where did you first here this Son definition. I never read this before. Just curious not to belittle. Who wrote this?
**“He descended into Hell” **
Yes, in the Apostles’ Creed. I don’t know if I will ever be able to change it.
Thanks, I was looking for that link with the sample texts a couple of weeks ago and could not find it.
He doesn’t understand heresies and that the Nicene Creed settled many a heresy.
No, I do understand heresy, it is going against what the Bible teaches.
The Nicene Creed simply made a heresy 'orthodox'.
If the Son was begotten from the Father in eternity, He came from the Father and was not, as is made clear in Jn.1:1, in the beginning WITH God and God.
The Nicene Creed is Platonic, it has the 'Son' coming from the Father, instead of always existing with him as God.
After Christ's death and Ascension, who corrected the heretics? The Apostles, the first Bishops of the Church, correct? Heresies are ideas that were promulgated my societies or individuals as truths, aand the Church took action to right the wrong that was being pushed by the pagans or others.
John Calvin’s Worst Heresy: That Christ Suffered in Hell
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America Succumbs to Heresy
The Bishop Discovers Heresy?
From Orthodox to Heresy: The Secularizing of Catholic Universities
Progressivism/Liberalism is Heresy [Excellent read & reference]
Is heresy better than schism? [Ecumenical]
Modernism: The Modernist Heresy
THE GREAT HERESIES-THE MODERN PHASE
The Protestant Heresy
The Gospel According to Mary Magdalene
Americanism, Then and Now: Our Pet Heresy (encyclical of Pope Leo XIII)
Heresies then and now: ancient Christian heresies practiced in modern times
The Plain Truth About The Baptist Bride Heresy
Balthasar, Hell, and Heresy: An Exchange (is it compatable with the Catholic faith?)
Heresies then and now: ancient Christian heresies practiced in modern times
Know Your Heresies
The Rev. John Piper: an interesting look at "heresy vs. schism"
Pietism as an Ecclesiological Heresy
Heresy
Arian Heresy Still Tempts, Says Cardinal Bertone (Mentions Pelagianism As Well)
Catholic Discussion] Church group stays faithful (to heresy!)
An overview of modern anti-Trinitarian heresies
Where heresy and dissent abound [Minnesota]
Gnostic Gospels - the heresy entitled "Gnosticism."
Christian mavericks find affirmation in ancient heresies
The So-Called ‘Gospel’ of Judas: Unmasking an Ancient Heresy
Benedict XVI Heresies and Errors
Donatism (Know your heresies)
The Heresy of Mohammed (Chapter 4, The Great Heresies)
Father & Son Catholic Writers Tag-Team Old & New Heresies
Here is a list of some heresies -- they cover the entire spectrum of belief.
The Creed has the Father 'giving birth' to the Son in eternity!
Now, what the Creed defenders want you to do is suspend reason and see no chronological aspect to this even though they are making one by saying the Father 'begot' the Son.
If the Father begot the Son in eternity, the relationship had a beginning and therefore the Son had a beginning.
It is Platonic, non-scriptural doubletalk.
Commonly refers to a doctrinal belief held in opposition to the recognized standards of an established system of thought. Theologically it means an opinion at variance with the authorized teachings of any church, notably the Christian, and especially when this promotes separation from the main body of faithful believers.
In the Roman Catholic Church, heresy has a very specific meaning. Anyone who, after receiving baptism, while remaining nominally a Christian, pertinaciously denies or doubts any of the truths that must be believed with divine and Catholic faith is considered a heretic. Accordingly four elements must be verified to constitute formal heresy; previous valid baptism, which need not have been in the Catholic Church; external profession of still being a Christian, otherwise a person becomes an apostate; outright denial or positive doubt regarding a truth that the Catholic Church has actually proposed as revealed by God; and the disbelief must be morally culpable, where a nominal Christian refuses to accept what he knows is a doctrinal imperative.
Objectively, therefore, to become a heretic in the strict canonical sense and be excommunicated from the faithful, one must deny or question a truth that is taught not merely on the authority of the Church but on the word of God revealed in the Scriptures or sacred tradition. Subjectively a person must recognize his obligation to believe. It he acts in good faith, as with most persons brought up in non-Catholic surroundings, the heresy is only material and implies neither guilt nor sin against faith. (Etym. Latin haeresis, from the Greek hairesis, a taking, choice, sect, heresy.)
**promulgated my societies or individuals**
promulgated by societies or individuals
He just was not the Son in eternity, in eternity He was unbegotten Word, co-equal and co-eternal with the other two members of the Trinity.
A 'begotten Son' in eternity would mean he came from God, instead of always existing with God and as God.
Yes, that is exactly what I am saying.
The Bible tells us in the beginning, He was the Word, not the Son.
To say that the Son was 'eternally begotten' would make one member of the Trinity coming from another and, chronologically coming after another.
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