Posted on 01/14/2011 5:57:52 PM PST by topcat54
Evangelical book catalogs promote books such as Planet Earth: The Final Chapter, The Great Escape, and the Left Behind series. Bumper stickers warn us that the vehicle’s occupants may disappear at any moment. It is clear that there is a preoccupation with the idea of a secret rapture. Perhaps this has become more pronounced recently due to the expectation of a new millennium and the fears regarding potential Y2K problems. Perhaps psychologically people are especially receptive to the idea of an imminent, secret rapture at the present time. Additionally, many Christians are not aware that any other position relative to the second coming of Jesus Christ exists. Even in Reformed circles there are numerous people reading these books. Many of these people are unaware that this viewpoint conflicts with Scripture and Reformed Theology.
(Excerpt) Read more at reformed.org ...
Sounds like our present day Calvinist brethren or at least their ideals.
I have no idea what vinegar has been added to your drink. We used to see eye to eye for the most part. However, c'est la vie. Perhaps we shall resume our conversation in the future.
The opinions you've expressed here have quite often actually helped strengthen my faith.
I believe we all have doubts - whether we wish to accept it or not. If we had no doubts, we wouldn't mourn for loved ones that have died. We'd all be a little jealous and mostly happy that our newly dead relative is a little closer to Jesus.
What I most appreciate about your postings is the eloquent and rational way you make sense of our doubts without pulling a punch.
I'm really adverse to fooling myself, but others seem to embrace self deception as if it were a life sustaining substance. I suppose I can relate. I know I have my own extreme intolerance to ambiguity on a few subjects, and it's a constant struggle on my part to reject my 'black and white' views on some issues.
I believe we all have our own limits to just how much ambiguity we can tolerate from the world. This intolerance to ambiguity manifests itself in many ways on many different subjects of life. For many this intolerance for ambiguity is centered on their religion. I believe this is where religious fundamentalism is formed - be it in atheism or faith.
You may not be able to cause someone to loose faith with your postings, but it seems you make many very uncomfortable with the notion all they believe is not so cut and dried.
Yup, giant ego, no wonder we have those who think that Calvinism = Christianity
I wonder what would happen if Calvinism were literally true - and those who adhered to it were automatically excluded from salvation from the beginning of Creation. Since all Calvinists believe that they are of the elite, how would it affect their belief if they were told that they were excluded.
Then, logically speaking, faith/salvation is not from God, but from man.
if by "cause" on includes "influence", then yes, opinions expressed by you could cause it. An indirect cause, but a 'cause' nonetheless
Let's do this again: if faith is salvific (i.e. faith = salvation), then man has nothing to do with who gets it and who doesn't.
Based upon the postings of many here, I hope that He has a surplus of hand sanitizer.
Our job is to preach the Gospel to all men, confident that those who have received new ears and new eyes from God will know the truth and believe.
The only Gospel that the Presbyterians preach is that of Paul and Isaiah. I note a considerable lack of Christ in your Christianity.
I am not playing. I am simply offering my opinions, not "official truth."
The hall monitor strikes again. Latin is civilized. Why are you against it?
Posting garbage like the rest of that post is against the rules of civilized debate.
The only time you bring this up is when you are losing the debate.
You know nothing of either.
See?
As high as a hotel in North Dakota?
There is no life in Calvin - only death.
That's what every jihadist says as well. The Jews are just as certain that Christains are wrong as the Christains are certain the Mormons are.
if one is familiar with scripture it's not difficult to determine....
Every religious sect or cult has its own "scripture" and its own "official truth" based on them. Generally speaking if one is familiar with scripture it's not difficult to determine....though sometimes it takes time to. Anything which opposes scripture should be a red flag
The subject was "being God's tool." I don't think any of them claimed to be "God's tool." Try to stay on the subject, okay?
You also left out Hitler...or do you not think he belongs to this bunch?
LOL! :)
Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good? - Matthew 20:15
Remember the former things of old: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else; [I am] God, and [there is] none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times [the things] that are not [yet] done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: - Isaiah 46:9-10
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. - Revelation 4:11
But no man can pluck us away from Him:
Your short quote from Augustine implies that Augustine may not have believed in Irresistible Grace when he says men who have already been illuminated by the Holy Spirit might fall back into reprobation. Many have argued about what his position really was on this subject. The later Augustine writes differently than the earlier Augustine.
Regardless, he's just a man. It's not Scripture.
Read the lengthy excerpts I posted here from Augustine and learn something. Augustine was one of the fathers of the Reformation regarding his view of totality of original sin and on predestination and God's election.
"With regards to predestination," you'd do yourself a favor by reading Augustine's masterwork...
Cronos, you continue to lift whole paragraphs from other websites without attribution. Your first highlighted paragraph is found here at CATHOLIC ANSWERS.
You did this last night, too.
You are putting Free Republic at risk of copyright infringement by trying to pass off other people's work as your own.
Again.
And again.
Somehow you seem to be saying that only Calvinists believe in “once saved, always saved.”
But you’ve talked to dozens of Baptists on this forum who also believe in that Scriptural principle. Not just Calvinists.
You disprove your own thesis.
Again.
And for the third time, we were discussing Augustine’s agreement with the reformers on predestination and original sin. Not irresistible grace.
You lose.
Again.
It is not possible for man to create something out of nothing. So their "argument" is correct — as far as it goes. But the argument has no necessary application to God. I gather Jains and Buddhists do not see this.
They reject creation out of nothing — but then the supreme achievement of their eschatology is the attainment of the state of "nothing" — of personal oblivion, the total annihilation of ego identity, the merging of self with Self....
Question: Does this make "Self" a sort-of "nothing," too?
I confess I can't figure out this stuff. :^) But I do note that the natural sciences did not rise in the East, but only in the Western cultural context, preeminently informed by Christianity and certain ancient Greek philosophers....
Thank you so very much, Cronos, for your fine synopsis of the main currents of Eastern religious belief!
While the five points of Calvinism (TULIP) were coined after Luther and Calvin lived, we know that Luther believed in Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Irresistible Grace, and the Perseverance of the Saints. He was moderate in his understanding of Limited Atonement.
But that's no surprise. He was a first generation reformed, often still hamstrung by the papacy which he was leaving.
Catholics, Orthodox, Lutherans, Anglicans, Methodists, Pentecostals — all to some extent or the other acknowledge of mortal sins that can cause us to lose salvation (Quix -- pentecostals of course believe that sins against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, right?) at least in some form.
Your are mighty confused about what Protestants believe.
We do not divide sins into "mortal" and "venial" sins. Sin is sin. What is a mortal sin to the Roman Catholic? Is it murder? Protestants believe even murder can be forgiven the Christian. Don't Roman Catholics?
We also know about the "unpardonable sin" which is most likely denying the Holy Spirit.
I would worry if I were a Roman Catholic because Rome seems to "deny the Holy Spirit" over and over when it substitutes Mary and its church hierarchy in the rightful place of the Holy Spirit.
Repent. God forgives a contrite heart.
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