Posted on 07/10/2011 4:10:43 PM PDT by delacoert
The question is often heard and debated: Are Mormons Christian? The real question is not whether Mormons are "Christians" or not. Certainly Mormons are "Christian" just as much as any "new age Christian", Scientologist, Jehovah's Witness or others could claim the title of "Christian" - because they all have elements (more or less) of Christ in their doctrine. Do they believe in Jesus Christ? Sure they do. And all who claim a belief in Christ would naturally get their backs up when the assertion is made that they are not "Christian". The label itself is not the real issue, however. The real issue that bible-believing Christians have, is that Mormonism is explicitly contrary to the bible and to Christ's teachings contained therein. LDS members are not pleased to hear such statements - and understandably so. "But we do believe in Jesus Christ and the bible!", the LDS will protest. But consider what is really behind the issue - beyond the label. At the core is the fact that Christ himself explicitly proclaimed: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6. "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved.” Acts 16:30-31. "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12. Mormonism on the other hand declares that, while it is necessary to believe in Christ: "there is no salvation outside the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints." (Bruce R. McConkie). The "church" is the way the truth and the life." (Marion G. Romney). There is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. (Joseph Fielding Smith). And there is no salvation (eternal life) without jumping through a myriad of hoops ("ordinances" - that the Mormon Church claims only it has the authority to perform - and strict obedience to the LDS church and all of its rules, regulations and commands given by its leadership). (click here for a more extensive discussion on this topic) If you are a Mormon, a key question is whether you really believe that you can inherit God's kingdom without the church? If you do believe that you can enter into God's Kingdom without the Mormon Church, your belief is contrary to official LDS church doctrine. What the LDS really believe is that, while a belief in Christ is requisite, so is a belief in and acceptance of the Prophet Joseph Smith and all subsequent church Prophets, the Mormon church, the restoration, the priesthood, the Word of Wisdom, all of the ordinances, and there must be strict obedience to all the laws, ordinances, teachings and commandments of the Church, etc. Miss any of these requisites and you're not going to get into God's Kingdom, according to Mormon theology. The bottom line is that Jesus Christ alone does not have the power to save, according to Mormonism. "One of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation," (Miracle of Forgiveness, Spencer W. Kimball, p. 206) Simply put, one cannot believe in both the bible and Mormonism. They are at odds on virtually every point of doctrine. Please don't take my word for it. Read the bible (most Mormons have not truly read the bible - or if they have, they usually just do a token read-through so that they can say that they've read it; it is very rare for a Mormon to really study the bible in depth). Not just the few out of context passages that Mormonism uses to try to demonstrate biblical support for its doctrines. But read the entire bible (start with the New Testament - which is the "New Covenant") in context and it will become clear that the two are not reconcilable. (For all LDS or former LDS members, I believe that it will take at least three times of reading through the New Testament - and do it without your LDS version with the LDS bible dictionary, the Joseph Smith Translation references, etc. Get a straight up King James, NIV or NASB and just read the Word without anyone or anything telling you what it says - let God Himself speak His Word to you. If you seek God and His truths in sincerity and a true and honest heart to know Him and His Word, it will change your life forever!). In sum, it may be somewhat inarticulate to say that Mormons are not "Christians". Mormons may technically have the label as "Christians" but they are certainly not "biblical Christians" and their teachings are not in accord with the pure and living Word of God. If the bible is truly the Word of God that Christ Himself declared would not pass away, then that is a serious issue. And it is one that Christ's followers should bring to the attention of the world in love - first of all so that the Mormon people may find the true and living Christ and His Word. Secondly, so that the world will not be mislead into a counterfeit Christianity. IS IT PROPER TO WARN THE WORLD ABOUT COUNTERFEITS? Jesus himself declared, that He alone is the door – the way, the truth and the life. The fundamental problem with Mormonism is that it is in direct conflict with that very basic and most important fact. The LDS Church, while using Christ’s name and keeping him somewhere in the mix, declares that the LDS Church is the way, the truth and the life and that no man can attain eternal life in the Father’s kingdom but by and through the LDS Church. (Though the church will currently equivocate publicly from such blunt statements, ask any faith LDS church member if they truly believe that they, or anyone else, can reach the Celestial Kingdom without strict adherence to each and every church ordinance, doctrine and command. Without question, the LDS Church teaches, and the members believe, that it is only in and through the LDS Church that Eternal Life can be had.) Christ and his disciples warned of false prophets, apostles and doctrines: “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.” Matthew 7:15 “[B]ut there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.” Galatians 1:7-8 “But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.” 2 Corinthians 11: 3-4 “For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.” 2 Corinthians 11:13 Neither Jesus nor His apostles hesitated to warn of and call out false and counterfeit doctrines when they appeared (yet neither He nor they imposed the Gospel on or forced anyone to believe in or to follow Christ). Yes, I think that we would be amiss not to warn our families, friends, the church and the world (even the Mormon people) of the counterfeit Christianity that is Mormonism. [That is not (and should not be) a mean-spirited thing, if done with love and genuine concern for the truth and for the welfare of souls - but it is still understandable that it is not pleasant for anyone to hear that they belong to a false religion.] Every man and woman must ultimately make their own decisions to believe or not believe as they see fit. Speaking the truth in love and with respect does not, and should not, infringe on anyone’s rights. I was a faithful LDS member for 39 years and I thank God for those who had the courage to stand up and speak the truth. When I had come to the point where I hungered for and needed to know the truth, I did not feel imposed upon by any and all sides of the arguments (and before that point I never would have even so much as looked at anything that contradicted the LDS church, even if it were placed right in front of my face with flashing red lights and sirens). But, at that point, when knowing the truth meant more to me than just clinging on to what I so desperately wanted to be true, I tried to listen to all sides (and everything that I could get my hands on). Each and every side played a part in enabling me to make a real choice. Ultimately, the truth itself did make me free. It is my sincere hope that what is written here will not be perceived as an "attack" on Mormons - rather I hope that it is received in the spirit of love and sincerity that it is intended. May God bless you as you seek Him in truth.
Sorry, what was the question? /s
Stick with the topic. We’re discussing Mormonism, not Catholicism. Mormons are not Christians, period. You want to bash Catholics, start your own thread.
Sadly, there is so much more! Did you know the leadership of Mormonism taught that the Mormon jesus was the one marrying at the wedding in Gallilee and that the Mormonism jesus had more than one wife, and that it was his polygamy which was probably the irk factor in his day? ... Oh, and there’s even more.
>>of course, there will be plenty of asshats that think their religion is better then another<<
That isn’t the question at hand. LDS adherents can practice whatever they think is appropriate. The question (for whatever reason) is whether LDS is “Christianity.”
It is like asking “Is Scientology Rational?” It doesn’t mean you can’t practice it if the answer (as with the first question) is “No.”
;o)
Yep. Totally saved. They believe in Jesus as the Son of God. That’s all you need.
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Don’t know much about Mormonism, do ya Gary.
Mormons believe Jesus is A son of God (so is Lucifer).
They also believe that Jesus was not always God but a created being, begotten by God the Father having sex with Mary.
Jesus wasn’t always God, rather he had to EARN His godhood by being Morally perfect and that they can become Gods themselves through works. They are not saved by grace but only by works.
They also redfine things like Saved and grace.
When I was LDS I thought I was a Christian. It wasn’t until I really read the Bible and encountered the Jesus of the Bible that I saw how heretical and damning Mormon teachings are.
Not saved, not in the least. And not Christian.
Search the Scriptures tophat 9000, if you will know the truth of God and His Christ by the Holy Spirit, or continue to scorn the truth but know this at least,
Mormonism and many other cult groups preach a false salvation gospel and therefore are condemned of God as the Scriptures plainly teach to those who believe and read the Scriptures knowing they are indeed the everlasting Word of God.This is the gospel of salvation for those who would be saved of God by grace through faith;
ICo.15:
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures..
And this is the curse of all who preach another gospel of salvation;
Galations 1:
1Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;) 2 And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia 3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ, 4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father 5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. 6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. 10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. 11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Only in a world where homosexuality is elevated by government to a special high status, where Islamists in full garb can walk unmolested through airports while 95 year old anglican women get their diapers searched, and in a nation where mothers murdering their children in the womb is a right, and killing them outside the womb is a commonplace event, is Mormonism "Christian". But in the real world, not in Alice in Wonderland's twisted mirror of inverted reality, where so many Americans currently live, Mormonism is nothing more or less than a tragic and blasphemous parody of Christianity.
questioning a person’s religion is attacking the core beliefs of that person. otherwise known as religious persecution
as for which is ‘right’... there is no way to actually know. one person worships at the feat of a gruesome statue, another may worship a pez dispenser. it doesn’t matter. it’s their choice and in this country, they are free to do it without being attacked/ridiculed for it.
what’s next? jews? amish? Hare Krishna?
get off the soap box. Christianity has just as many holes, if not more, the other religions.
enjoy YOUR religion... and leave other people to enjoy THEIRS
Straw man.
Both Catholics and Protestants agree on the Trinity and the person, work and nature of Jesus Christ.
Mormons do no agree on any of those things.
______________________________
NO
Scary isn’t it. And it is completely true. I used to be Mormon and that is what I was taught.
Fortunately, God saved me from that and Christ brought me to Him. I thank God every day that I am free of Mormonism.
Mormonism is NOT Christianity
The foul practice of polygamy is not part of Christianity..
Idol worship of the pagan Joey Smith is not part of Christianity...
Multiple gods are not part of Christianity...
A non-virgin Mary is not part of Christianity...
Only males going to Heaven is not part of Christianity...
Males becoming gods is not part of Christianity...
Males ruling their own planet is not part of Christianity...
A priesthood system as practiced by the mormons is not part of Christianity
Women as sex slaves in a harem is not part of Christianity...
Women having babies forever is not part of Christianity...
Women being called from their graves by husbands who decide the woman’s fate is not part of Christianity...
Degradation of women through adultery and so called “celestial marriage” is not part of Christianity...
Three levels of Heaven is not part of Christianity
Sex in Heaven is not part of Christianity…
Men marrying their mother-in-law is not part of Christianity…
Men marrying their daughter-in-law is not part of Christianity..
Men marrying their wife’s sister is not part of Christianity
Special underwear are not part of Christianity..
Special ceremony clothes are not part of Christianity…
Joey Smith deciding who gets into Heaven is not part of Christianity...
Joey Smith as the savior is not part of Christianity...
Recognizing and worshipping the blasphemous Joey Smith is not part of Christianty...
Dead dunking is not part of Christianity...
The idol on top of the mormon temples is not part of Christianity...
The mormon temples are not part of Christianity...
Gathering in “zion” whether its in Missouri or Utah is not part of Christianity...
The return of the mormon jesus to Missouri is not part of Christianity...
The belief that the garden of Eden was in Missouri is not part of Christianity...
People living on the sun and the moon is not part of Christianity...
The belief that the mormon jesus visited Central America is not part of Christianity...
Freemasonry as practiced by the mormons is not part of Christianity...
Endowments are not part of Christianity...
The book of mormon is not part of Christianity
The tall tales of Joey Smith are not part of Christianity
Mythical ancient civilizations in Central America are not part of Christianity
The so called “visions” and false prophecies of Joey Smith are not part of Christianity
The mormon Mary having sex with one of the mormon gods is not part of Christianity...
The absence of a cross on a building is not part of Christianity
Pagan and Freemasonry symbols on a building are not part of Christianity
“Going through the temple” is not part of Christianity...
The denial that Jesus is God is not part of Christianity...
The denial that the Holy Ghost is God is not part of Christianity...
The denial of the Trinity is not part of Christianity...
The belief that the mormon god was once a man is not part of Christianity
The belief that the mormon god was a polygamist is not part of Christianity...
The belief that the mormon jesus was a polygamist is not part of Christianity...
The belief that monogamy...one man, one woman...is prostitution is not part of Christianity...
The belief that David went to Hell forever is not part of Christianity.
The belief that David will not be in Heaven is not part of Christianity….
Paying tithes to be saved is not part of Christianity......
Works to be saved is not part of Christianity
Being a member of the mormon corporation is not part of Christianity...
The mormon jesus sweating in the Garden of Gethsemane for “atonement” is not part of Christianity...
The insulting, degrading, blasphemous false religion of mormonism is not Christianity...
I have never stopped MORMONS from practicing their own religion..
They are free to do so...
I do however state once again for the record...
Mormonism is NOT Christianity...
And if that’s considered “nasty” I’m in good company...
Because I’m just agreeing with the God of the Christian Bible...
King James Version included...
well I am not mormon,but the Book of mormon has nothing in it that is contrary to Christ,not one thing. the purpose of the book was to state history of the Americas seen through Jewish peoples who came here and Christ’s message to all people. Now the book of mormon and mormon doctrine are probably different,but even catholics believe their church is the right and only church and have a lot of customs not in the Bible.one thing is for sure,the mormons been persecuted since their beginning. What is a mormon-I don’t know,but their book is inspired is all I know.
(((hugs))) Don’cha just love a good tirade? I’m feeling somewhat feisty this morning.
They can claim what they want but that does not make it so.
The Muslims claim Jesus as a Disciple and many other Jews as Disciples but we all know that they are not Jewish OR Christian.
they are free to do it without being attacked/ridiculed for it.
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No, they are free to practice it without being killed or jailed for it (and even there are some exceptions legally).
The Constitution says nothing about being ridiculed or attacked.
You know ... the magic underwear was really enough for me.
I’m not Mormon. I don’t hold any hate in my heart for Mormons...but it seems to me that they have replaced our Christian savior with theirs.
>>questioning a person’s religion is attacking the core beliefs of that person. otherwise known as religious persecution<<
No one is questioning the religion. It is questioning the religion’s authenticity. It isn’t persecution, it is just asking a question. Rather than respond, it seems we get the Nancy Pelosi response.
>>as for which is ‘right’... there is no way to actually know. one person worships at the feat of a gruesome statue, another may worship a pez dispenser. it doesn’t matter. it’s their choice and in this country, they are free to do it without being attacked/ridiculed for it.<<
Where do you link not being Christian with ridicule? The question is just if LDS is a Christian religion. This is definition not attack.
>>what’s next? jews? amish? Hare Krishna?<<
None of these claim to be Christian with specific contrary doctrine. It disturbs many real Christians that LDS adherents abuse the word “Christian” — which is ridiculing CHRISTIANS. As I said, it is like Scientology — it ridicules ALL religion. Should it not at least be available to answer fact-based questions on its basis?
And it is “Jews,” not “jews” and “Amish,” not “amish.
I will assume you were in a hurry and did not specifically use Internet parlance to dismiss lower-case nouns as unimportant.
>>get off the soap box. Christianity has just as many holes, if not more, the other religions.<<
I am on no soap box. I just repeated the question in a calm and logical manner. I think it is YOU who is on the soap box.
>>enjoy YOUR religion... and leave other people to enjoy THEIRS<<
I defy you to find a single post in this thread telling anyone they should not ply nor enjoy his/her personal religion or belief system.
"Some people are troubled over the statements of the Prophet Joseph Smith. ... The Prophet taught that our Father had a Father and so on. Is not this a reasonable thought, especially when we remember that the promises are made to us that we may become like him?" (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, pp.10, 12).
"Jesus was the bridegroom at the marriage of Cana of Galilee...We say it was Jesus Christ who was married, to be brought into relation whereby he could see his seed [children] before he was crucified (Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 82)."There was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and on a careful reading of that transaction, it will be discovered that non less a person that Jesus Christ was married on that occasion. If he was never married, his intimacy with Mary and Martha an the other Mary also whom Jesus loved, must have been highly unbecoming and improper to say the best of it." (Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, vol. 4, p. 259).
"In the Church councils, it was spoken of: "Joseph F. Smith_ He spoke upon the marriage in Cana of Galilee. He thought Jesus was the bridegroom and Mary and Martha the brides."(Journal of Wilford Woodruff, July 22, 1883).
"The grand reason of the burst of public sentiment in anathemas upon Christ and his disciples, causing his crucifixion, was evidently based upon polygamy, according to the testimony of the philosophers who rose in that age. A belief in doctrine of a plurality of wives caused the persecution of Jesus and his followers. We might almost think they were Mormons (Jedediah Grant, Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 346)."One thing is certain, that there were several holy women that great loved Jesus, such as Mary and Martha her sister, and Mary Magdalene; and Jesus greatly loved them and associated with the much; and when he arose from the dead, instead of first showing himself to his chosen witnesses, the Apostles, He appeared first to these women, or at least to one of them--namely, Mary Magdalene. Now, it would be very natural for a husband in the resurrection to appear first to his own dear wives, and afterwards show himself to his other friends. If all the acts of Jesus were written, we no doubt should learn that these beloved women were his wives." (Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 159).
But wait! There’s more astonishing Mormonism heresy :
In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it. (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 5, 1844)
Smith's worldview of time as it pertains to the gods: Smith believed in a "beginning" that was operative before the Mormon plan to the create this world. The question becomes, who is the head of the Gods as pertains to this ‘council of gods?
In the very beginning the Bible shows there is a plurality of Gods beyond the power of refutation. It is a great subject I am dwelling on. The word Eloheim ought to be in the plural all the way through--Gods. The heads of the Gods appointed ONE God for us... (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 372)
Whatever "time frame" or eternity is chosen, only ONE GOD was chosen by a plurality of gods. It doesn't say a plurality of gods was chosen by a plurality of gods. Therefore, no Mormon godhead existed when the council chose the Mormon one god! Apparently, the godhead of god the father, god the holy spirit, and god the jesus developed later .
The convolutions/confusions are rife in Mormonism. Despite the above teaching, LDS leader, Bruce McConkie, taught that lds worship 3 gods: "Three separate personages-Father, Son and holy Ghost- comprise the Godhead…these three are the only Gods we worship."(Mormon Doctrine 1966 ed. P.576-577).
“I will go back to the beginning, before the world was, to show what kind of a being God is. What sort of a being was God in the beginning? Open your ears and hear, all ye ends of the earth; for I am going to prove it to you by the Bible, and to tell you the designs of God in relation to the human race, and why he interferes with the affairs of man. God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens. That is the great secret. (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3, 1844)
Whatever is taken by Smith as the ’beginning’, the Alpha point, Smith says god was a man. That he "was once as we are now." We already know from the above quote that the godhead came even after the Mormon god was appointed. The Mormon god was no godhead in the beginning Smith portrays, yet John’s Gospel starts with the Word, Jesus, was with God and was God in the beginning.
“I learned a testimony concerning Abraham, and he reasoned concerning the Gods of heaven. '...Intelligences exist one above another, so that there is no end to them.' If Abraham reasoned thus--If Jesus Christ was the Son of God, and John discovered that God the Father of Jesus Christ had a Father, you may suppose that He had a Father also. Where was there ever a son without a father? And where was there ever a father without first being a son? Whenever did a tree or anything spring into existence without a progenitor? And everything comes in this way. Paul says that which is earthly is in the likeness of that which is heavenly. Hence if Jesus had a Father, can we not believe that He had a Father also? I despise the idea of being scared to death at such a doctrine, for the Bible is full of it. I want you to pay particular attention to what I am saying. Jesus said that the Father wrought precisely in the same way as His Father had done before Him. As the Father had done before? He laid down His life, and took it up the same as His Father had done before. (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 373)
What's being said here? … The teaching of infinite regression of gods! Smith is claiming that Jesus had a grandpa and great-grandpa!
Finally, Smith claims that God the Father also laid down His life in some sort of redemptive way, to earn/gain exaltation! Which means whatever "time" you want to leave undefined, apparently God the Father had time enough to live as a man and die as a man for some whole other world.
Smith says Heavenly Father laid down his life as a redeemer on another world. Brigham Young added that “every earth has its redeemer, and every earth has its tempter”. (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 14, p. 71, 1870)
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