Posted on 02/16/2015 8:27:19 AM PST by redleghunter
Just like the Greek and Roman gods who would occasionally drop down to Earth from Mt. Olympus for a visit.
Jesus and His disciples were Jews.
What’s your point?
Where in the article did you come to the conclusion JM was doing so?
What is your point with the Temple being destroyed in 70AD?
Fulfillment of prophecy. See Matthew 24.
Prior to this prophecy and the similar discourse in Luke 21 we have this:
Luke 20 King James Version (KJV)
9 Then began he to speak to the people this parable; A certain man planted a vineyard, and let it forth to husbandmen, and went into a far country for a long time.
10 And at the season he sent a servant to the husbandmen, that they should give him of the fruit of the vineyard: but the husbandmen beat him, and sent him away empty.
11 And again he sent another servant: and they beat him also, and entreated him shamefully, and sent him away empty.
12 And again he sent a third: and they wounded him also, and cast him out.
13 Then said the lord of the vineyard, What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be they will reverence him when they see him.
14 But when the husbandmen saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, This is the heir: come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours.
15 So they cast him out of the vineyard, and killed him. What therefore shall the lord of the vineyard do unto them?
16 He shall come and destroy these husbandmen, and shall give the vineyard to others. And when they heard it, they said, God forbid.
17 And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?
18 Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
19 And the chief priests and the scribes the same hour sought to lay hands on him; and they feared the people: for they perceived that he had spoken this parable against them.
You have to remember that the New Testament is not considered part of Hebrew Bible.
It seems the Pharisees believed that too. Then again it took Nicodemus a few tries to catch the fulfillment of this:
Ezekiel 36:
20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the Lord, and are gone forth out of his land.
21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.
22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord God; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name’s sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.
23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
The last two verses say it all about Spirit.
What is the fulfillment of the Ezekiel 36 verses?
What’s the fulfillment of this?
Isaiah 53:
Isaiah 53 King James Version (KJV)
53 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?
2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
First off you are reading a translation into English. You have to go back into the Hebrew to have a better understanding of the text or any other text in the Tanach. And then to understand a prophecy requires more study.
When the messiah decides show up we’ll see who is correct on this issue.
I can provide a translation from a Jewish theologian if you would like?
When the messiah decides show up we’ll see who is correct on this issue.
Kicking against the goads of time. By the oracles of YHWH revealed to Daniel and Isaiah, your timeline leaves you two options. First of which is the completion of Isaiah 61 or the completion of Daniel's last "week" of 70. Meaning you will either embrace Yeshua as Messiah at His second coming or the man of sin, the antichrist.
For we see below the following. The portion in bold Messiah Yeshua fulfilled and the remainder will be fulfilled when He comes as conquering King. It is good news for Israel!
Isaiah 61:
The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified.
4 And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.
5 And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers.
6 But ye shall be named the Priests of the Lord: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.
7 For your shame ye shall have double; and for confusion they shall rejoice in their portion: therefore in their land they shall possess the double: everlasting joy shall be unto them.
I have a Jewish translation, but it’s the interpretation that makes the difference. How do you know that the way the Torah is read by Jews is correct? By the Oral tradition. Have you taken the time to study that? Have you taken the time to walk out Torah in letter and in Spirit? Christians aren’t interested and they don’t have to.
I don’t have to accept anybody as messiah. Keep in mind that just because you are a messiah doesn’t mean you are God.
Moses was a messiah, but he was careful never to declare himself God or allow his followers to do declare him such. You can have the Spirit of God on you, but that does not make you God. You can speak on God’s behalf, but that does not make you God. You have to know the difference between the message and the source of it and the messenger.
Man has a very difficult time accepting a God that is beyond time and space and can only be seen with the soul not the physical eyes. You can’t put God in a box because He is infinite. He isn’t even male or female because he is beyond the physical and gender/sex. So man’s imperfect mind comes up with ways to get around that which ends up as idolatry.
When God’s soul touches yours you’ll never the same. When you see anthropomorphisms of God that doesn’t mean He’s physical. Even Hebrew, as good as it is, cannot even begin to truly describe the vastness of His being.
God is perfect and His Torah is perfect, eternal and is not allowed to added to. There are numerous verses that say that. To say that he made a mistake when he wrote it means that He is a fraud.
For the past 2,000 years people have tried to come up with additions and new revelations but those aren’t allowed. It doesn’t matter if it is the New Testament, the Koran, the Book of Mormon or others.
There is one God and one Torah and one people to lift up the rest of us to Him so we can have a close relationship with Him. It’s up to us to accept the Torah as is and the understanding of it as it has been passed down via the Oral Tradition from Moses to the 70 Elders, to the Pharisees, and to the rabbis of today.
And the icing on the cake is to have our souls be touched by the Spirit of God (a mikvah or baptism in His Spirit) so that we can live out His will in balance with what is written.
You missed it. Jesus is not a man who became God Jesus is and has always been God Eternal who became man for us and for our salvation. Man cannot become God, but God can become Man if He chooses (and He did)
How embarrassing for you, to post such an ignorant assertion twisting the truth of The Gospel. But there is still hope for you, if you can still learn.
That’s your opinion. Once you open the gate to one man being God then everyone can be God.
It’s that or no man can be God which is what God says and what He told Moses and has been passed down today by Jews.
“Man cannot become God, but God can become Man if He chooses (and He did)”
That’s a Greek/pagan belief, not a Jewish one.
How does an itinerant person of the Jewish faith receive atonement?
After the destruction of the Temple on Zion in AD 70, where do itinerant Jews go for their sin offerings? For example on the Day of Atonement there is one bull as the high priest’s offering, and a young male goat on behalf of the community. Where are the descendants of Aaron?
How is this done today? Where is the place of sacrifice today? Where in Torah are you relieved of blood atonement?
These are laws YHWH instituted. And as you said, His Law is perfect. So how do you practice thus perfectly?
“We could easily posit that since God’s breath is God and Earth is God because they both come from God, then man is God.”
No we can’t. We were simply told that we were made in His image. We never have been God, and never will be.
“If only they could depict him as he was - a Jew.”
I agree fully with that. : )
Micah 5
“But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Though you are little among the thousands of Judah, Yet out of you shall come forth to Me The One to be Ruler in Israel, Whose goings forth are from of old, From everlasting.”
This certainly speaks of the Messiah. Do we agree on that. If so, the Messiah is everlasting. If that's true, is Messiah God? If so, what preludes this person from being Jesus?
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