Rejecting Mariology

Two-Edged Sword ^ | February 05, 2007 | Lee

[DungeonMaster]

The use of temples, and these dedicated to particular saints, and ornamented on occasions with branches of trees; incense, lamps, and candles; votive offerings on recovery from illness; holy water; asylums; holydays and seasons, use of calendars, processions, blessings on the fields; sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure, the ring in marriage, turning to the East, images at a later date, perhaps the ecclesiastical chant, and the Kyrie Eleison, are all of pagan origin, and sanctified by their adoption into the Church.[Cardinal Newman - Development of Christian Doctrine, pg 373]

Just WOW!!!

[DungeonMaster]

Indeed you are badly mistaken if you think that the faithful holy ones who have gone on before us are now NOT living members of the Body of Christ and are LESS able to care for us and intercede for us than they were when they lived on this earth! It's a real head-scratcher.

Here is where I disagree. Yes they are living but that's all the Word says about them. Who is to say what it is like to be in the presence of the Lord? You and yours imagine, and it is only imagination, that they are very similar in goals and focus as when "alive". I imagine it is "no eye has seen and no mind has conceived" and "words not legal to utter" INCREDIBLY FANTASTIC to the point that even if one could observe the world, one wouldn't want to. In heaven we are not even married yet the lower Catholic imagination of that is like an episode of Medium, where the dead are sad and want to be with their corporeal loved ones. It trivialized glory in eternity in the presence of the Lord.

[CynicalBear]

>>Frankly, my jaw drops when I realize that there are people who think that ALL these ancient Christian communities have been ALL wrong, ALL the time<<

Six of the seven "churches" addressed in Revelation had already strayed to the point of being rejected by Christ. The twisting of the words of scripture by the Catholic Church is what is jaw dropping.

[Mrs. Don-o]

And you can't even see that straying local churches were being confronted and corrected by Apostolic Church authority, namely John!!

Talk about not seeing what's right in front of your face!

[CynicalBear]

Just wow is right. It’s totally disregarding what God said. Yet they can’t see what happened to the Israelites when they did the same thing.

[CynicalBear]

>>And you can't even see that straying local churches were being confronted and corrected by Apostolic Church authority, namely John!!<<

John was simply taking dictation.

[Mrs. Don-o]

John is speaking (or writing) to the seven churches of Asia:

Revelation 1:7 - John to the seven churches which are in Asia. Grace be unto you and peace from him that is, and that was, and that is to come, and from the seven spirits which are before his throne"

Right in front of your face.

[CynicalBear]

Revelation 1:1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,

Consistently trying to give credit to man is not going to turn out well for Catholics.

[paladinan]

The opinion of anyone who posts this nonsense will not be debated.

By you, at any rate? :) Have a good day!

[paladinan]

I’ll have to apologize: I’m getting swamped with work, right now, and FR needs to take a back-seat. I have off from work, next week, so I might(?) be able to write a bit, then. In the meantime, thanks for the chat!

[Elsie]

...do we err in thinking that is 'create a place' rather than rearrange things for a place to receive us to?

I don't think it matters much.

[Elsie]

or any OTHER data.

[Elsie]

And, uninteresting ones as well!

[Elsie]

Go ahead and rationalize it.

Still peddling your crap; I see.

---

STA apparently CHOOSES to give a false imprssion every time he writes:

 

"If he will not listen to the church, treat him as a pagan or tax collector." --Jesus

 

 

---

Matthew 18:15-17 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA) 

¹⁵ But if thy brother shall offend against thee, go, and rebuke him between thee and him alone. If he shall hear thee, thou shalt gain thy brother.

¹⁶ And if he will not hear thee, take with thee one or two more: that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may stand.

¹⁷ And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.

[Elsie]

I’ll have to apologize: I’m getting swamped with work, right now, and FR needs to take a back-seat.

What?

You are working for someone; using THEIR time to chat on FR??

[boatbums]

Nope...you "fixed" nothing - not even close. It is curious how many times the SAME false opinions - disguised as "truth" - are disputed by genuine facts yet some continue to spout them as if they were oblivious to it all and don't have a clue about WHY they are wrong. Perhaps the reason is they cannot bring themselves to admit their "church" is fallible about anything so they simply have to continue to defend them no matter how stupid it makes them look to others. We continue to pray for them, though.

[GeronL]

The Catholic Church didnt even exist when Jesus said that, it took a Roman emperor to create it. Nothing like the church Jesus spoke of.

[paladinan]

Don’t be a complete, inflammatory jerk, Elsie. Some of us actually take work home, on a regular basis. If you don’t, then... well... bully for you.

[Legatus]

You forgot to say “I think”.

[RnMomof7]

As for us Catholics, we will “listen to the church,” “the pillar and foundation of truth,” as Christ commanded.

A pillar holds something up... in this case that quote means Christ..

Does Paul say that in his absence, the church of Ephesus can get along just fine without him since the church is a pillar and foundation of truth? That Ephesian Christians can learn everything they need to learn from the Magisterium or teaching office of the Church? No, he says nothing of the kind. To the contrary, he is writing to them so that they will know how to conduct themselves in church. They aren’t getting this from the church. They are getting this from him. From his teaching to the church (e.g. the household code in 1 Tim 2:1-3:13).

He is writing them because he can’t teach them in person—at the moment. But in any case, their source of sound doctrine comes from him. Not from the church, as a pillar and pedestal of truth.

In context, 1 Tim 3:15 is the very antithesis of a prooftext for ecclesiastical authority.

http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2008/09/is-church-pillar-pedestal-of-truth.html