Posted on 03/30/2002 7:53:37 PM PST by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
This is the Orthodox belief. God the Father remains beyond us, even in heaven.
Where did you get the word "inherit" from? Which translation? The six versions I've looked at all have this: 2Ki 2:9 It happened, when they had gone over, that Elijah said to Elisha, Ask what I shall do for you, before I am taken from you. Elisha said, please let a double portion of your spirit be on me.
The word "yarash" is usually translated as "inherit" and that doesn't appear anywhere in the verse.
It makes more sense that he actually wrote the letter and didn't go to heaven...
Only because of your other presumptions. If Elijah was still on this earth, where was he? If he was close enough to easily arrange the delivery of a letter, then why did he not just come in person? If he was far away, then how did he arrange for it to be delivered? No Fed Ex available back then. Not even the Roman postal system. Why didn't he come and give his message in person? It sure would have been easier on Jeremiah if he could have sent his prophecies to Jerusalem by slow camel. I'm sure Jonah would have preferred to write a letter rather than going to Ninevah in person.
Beats me. But the fact remains that a Jeromeh was reading a letter from Elijah years after he supposedly went to heaven. Scripture doesn't say how he got it though.
Enoch dies but we don't know what God did with him,
That contradicts the passage from Hebrews I cited. It says that Enoch "was taken up so that he should not see death". If you believe the whole of the Christian scriptures to be inspired, you need to reconcile what Jesus said with what the author of Hebrews said.
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed to men once to die, but after this the judgment,
Enoch had to have died a physical death. Even Christ had to endure a physical death. Maybe Paul was just saying that God took him away somewhere to save him from being killed by someone or something...who knows? The scripture is silent again.
That's tough for me to accept. It seems to make much more sense that everybody is asleep in their graves right now and nobody is in heaven. It fits in exactly with what Jesus taught about nobody "ascending" to heaven and nobody ever seeing God the father.
At some point I think we will be outside of this physical universe and will be able to "see" and commune with God the father.
Yes, I agree...but I'm trying to understand the mechanism I guess...you're probably right in that it's impossible to describe anything outside of the frame of our reality.
1. Who is I? David.
2. Who are my mother's sons.? David's brothers.
This was the verse I was referring to regarding reading hearts.
“Therefore don't judge anything prematurely, before the Lord comes, who will both bring to light what is hidden in darkness and reveal the intentions of the hearts. And then praise will come to each one from God. (1Co 4:5)”
You're a bitter man. (oops, I'm ready hearts again)
Not bitter at all Steven. Just shaking my head in amazement. Just because you can’t distinguish between veneration and worship you don’t anybody can or should.
An online RSV. Typically, I've found it to be an accurate translation. I use this particular online reference because it has good search capabilities. In this case, I did not check it against other translations. I looked up a Jewish translation and it also renders the passage "let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me". I cede the point on "inherit" to you. However, I continue to disagree about the fate of Elijah.
I was just reading some interesting commentary on this idea, heavy on Scriptural and Patristic sources. I'll try to find a couple of passages later and quote them. I believe that the traditional position is that the Person of the Trinity that will be manifest to us in heaven will be the Son. We will be aware of the presence of God the Father, but He will still not be visible to us.
The church fathers distinguish between the essence and the energies of the Father, and speak of how we can know Him, or commune with Him, through His energies but never through His essence.
I don't have verses at the moment, but don't even the Seraphim not see the Father - two of their wings cover their eyes?
RENEWAL OF FAITH
Published on March 19, 2002. Author(s): Tatsha Robertson, Globe Staff
ROILED BY ABUSE SCANDAL, DALLAS DIOCESE RECOVERED BY REACHING OUT
DALLAS - Every recent Wednesday and Thursday night, a rush of children has packed the choir loft at All Saints Catholic Church here to rehearse for an upcoming Easter program.
The youthful enthusiasm is one sign of resurgence in the sprawling parish, which was the epicenter of one of the biggest sex scandals to hit the Roman Catholic Church in the 1990s. A former pastor of All Saints was sentenced to life in prison for sexually abusing boys, and the Diocese of Dallas paid his 11 victims and
Click for complete article
That explains the confusion from the last time you brought this up. You just said 68.
Douay says Christ. You say David. What does the RCC say?
The same thing Old Reggie would have said the last time if he hadn't gotten in a huff and dropped the subject. Ps. 69 is a Messianic Psalm, but not every verse of the psalm is Messianic. I pointed out one verse that could not possibly refer to Christ Why do you insist that this one verse must refer to Christ? Does Douay (is that pig latin for Udo?) reference that one verse? Or all of 68/9?
Just asked him a question. How would I know. Based on his behavior around here I think the question is legit.
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