THREAD 145

The simple truth is God does not view the accidental killing of a unborn child the same as the accidental death of a person, hence He makes an important distinction.

Abortion is not "accidental killing".

I agree. One must extrapolate God's laws absent specific laws in a modern situation. I propose there were no abortions among the Jews and God chose not to address it. However, I am not purporting that I know exactly how to apply the subject distinction to abortion, only that it is the closest thing we have from the bible in which to form an understanding commensurate with God's word .

please read my post #160 to Soothing Dave on previous thread. No distinction made.

"After 7 years in a city of refuge a person guilty of accidental murder gets off scott free. According to the above passage looks like if ya mess with the fruit of the womb the person gets punished right away."

Seven years away from your people in a virtual prison under threat of lawful execution if you set foot outside is not "scott free" by any stretch of the imagination. If the same fate awaited the accidental murder of the unborn I would have no argument.

Seven years away from your people in a virtual prison under threat of lawful execution if you set foot outside is not "scott free" by any stretch of the imagination. If the same fate awaited the accidental murder of the unborn I would have no argument.

Well I guess you know what that fate is. Care to share it with me?

Seven years away from your people in a virtual prison under threat of lawful execution if you set foot outside is not "scott free" by any stretch of the imagination. If the same fate awaited the accidental murder of the unborn I would have no argument.

Also. I'd take 7 years in a city as opposed to a prison after I accidentally murdered someone. Don't forget what the punishment would have been had the person not made it to the city of refuge.

Just want to make one point clear:

We are NOT talking about the "accidental" killing of the unborn! What is really at issue is the deliberate killing of the unborn.

We are NOT talking about the "accidental" killing of the unborn! What is really at issue is the deliberate killing of the unborn.

I'm on board with this. :-)

"I'd take 7 years in a city as opposed to a prison after I accidentally murdered someone."

There were no prisons among the Jews.

"Don't forget what the punishment would have been had the person not made it to the city of refuge."

Here is where you lose me. Murder was an immediate eye for an eye and has nothing to do with with the present discussion. Unintentional killing is the consideration as far as the unborn are concerned.

Nothing in the bible clearly adresses the intentional killing of the unborn. God took the life of the unborn of David for simple udultery and ordering Uriah into possible death. God does not subject Himself to the same law he subjected the Jews.

Here is where you lose me. Murder was an immediate eye for an eye and has nothing to do with with the present discussion. Unintentional killing is the consideration as far as the unborn are concerned.

Dude abortion is intentional killing.

Nothing in the bible clearly adresses the intentional killing of the unborn.

Try "thou shalt not kill".

God took the life of the unborn of David for simple udultery and ordering Uriah into possible death. God does not subject Himself to the same law he subjected the Jews.

I guess that makes it ok for us.

You've lost me on this whole thing. I guess that makes you the weakest link. Goodbye.

Farewell to Freerepublics Neverending Thread

First of all let me say to all of you my hats are off. That includes FC, Jhavard, biblewonk, Havoc, Steven, Iowegian PayNoAttension, bass, Angelo and the rest of you.

People posting here will go to great lengths to research and backup their points. There is an incredible amount of brainpower at work here, and you guys will spend a great deal of time and effort, reaching the entire Web and outside sources to make your point.

And also it is obvious that everyone’s heart is in the right place.

You guys are doing it to help others with matters that are truly important even eternal.

The purpose of this thread has become a quest for Truth. Everyone really strongly believes in his viewpoint, and is contributing to help others.

That being said, the truth is I leave the Neverending thread with mixed emotions.

I have seen what can happen on a discussion board. My wife converted almost half a protestant church to Catholicism in a small town in Washington state due to her correspondence on an asthma discussion board.

She started conversing with an educator who was leading a study group in the origin of the bible. Turns out that the small town they were in only had two churches, this one, an Assembly of God church and a Catholic church. Suffice it to say that my wife’s friend converted and so did other single members of her group. But the married ones had the choice of conversion or their marriage and choose to stay in their marriage.

But, on the other hand the question of time comes in. I have many obligations and the fact that I whip out posts results in many thoughtless, blunt and grammatically incorrect postings on my part.

For that I apologize (though I stand by them on content). But in addition to Freeping, I am a father of three girls aged 21, 13, and 6 with the younger two being students in a small Catholic elementary school.

Say what you want but I think you’d agree that that by itself is a big time commitment.

Also, I am married to a gorgeous former model who is an artist and who does me the honor of working with me part time. I like to call her the Catholic Dr. Laura, cause when I come out from the back she is usually telling people stuff like: “Well Johnny that just proves you need to pull you balls out from behind your butt and be a man!” and they come in and thank me for it.

Let me but it this way in 25 years of marriage, no one has ever asked me what I saw in her. Her, on the other hand…

But, everyone would agree, working on a marriage takes a lot of time.

I also instruct at a local University when they need a hand, but I try not to do this too much.

I instruct RCIA (that is Ritual of Catholic Initiation of Adults for you unfamiliar with the program) on an as needed basis.

I also develop software for small businesses and medical and legal offices.

I consult, really help out friends, with their medical legal information systems.

I am also a practicing Catholic. This also can be a major time commitment. I have not missed obligatory mass in probably over 5 years. I spend an hour in meditation in the Chapel of Perpetual Adoration weekly. I also commentate and read.

Lastly, I am a physician in private practice, and although I try not to let this take up much of my time, it always does.

So, I feel that this discussion is important, but I lack the time to do it right.

Also, others like Soothing Dave, Defender, Proud2BeRC, Al_guy, allend, RobbyS,conservator, wideawake, Defender, and others do an admirable job with very little support or encouragement making my contribution not as important. I want to publicly thank you guys and let you know your contributions are important.

Being a former Protestant, I know that many good things come from Protestants and many of you have very good knowledge of the bible. I heard somewhere where Protestants can quote more verses, whereas a Catholic understands more of the stories that make up salvation history.

I would say comparing my daughters with my friends’ children in private religious school, that generality is reasonably true.

There is a place for both approaches. Certainly, the Sunday mass in 3 years covers 95% of the bible, and the magisterium encourages these readings as the place for the practicing Catholic to basically familiarize himself with the word. The problem is most Catholics don’t do this, and at times I don’t myself.

But the bottom line is this, everybody is better off with a religion than no religion. I say this time and time again. I don’t care if he is Muslim, Hindu, Jewish or Mormon, people are better off with a moral code than without one.

I used to go around and around with my mother who would always say: “those darned Jews in Hollywood, all they can come out with is trash” I would say, I don’t think Spielberg has been to synagogue lately so please don’t call those people Jews.

Bill Donahue, who is the Chairman of the Catholic Anti Defamation League has said: “Catholic bashing is the last politically correct form of bigotry”, and from what I’ve seen here, I’d have to agree.

I expect this from the left, but this bigotry seems to be across the political spectrum.

What do I call anti Catholic bias? I think that if anyone argues that throughout time the Church who has not been a force for the promotion of Christian values is biased.

Not only do I think that, but I would say that any historian who has any creditability in his field would agree.

This is a no brainer. The church is acknowledged to be the driving force in Christianity for the last 2000 years.

You may disagree with doctrine and I will respect that.

You might not convert, and with me that is OK.

But to not credit the Church with preserving the bible, and Christian teaching throughout time, is a break with established history that is agreed upon by anyone who is not discredited by their views.

If your study has given you a different take, fine, but at least argue from the starting point of agreed history, and at least understand commonly agreed upon history and where you take issue with it at.

Otherwise, you look foolish, to say the least.

If I am ever remembered on this thread, I would like it to be said is the last thing I encouraged was to mention something positive about ones harshest critics.

To Havoc, Jhavard, First Conservative, bass, PayNoAttension, Iowegian, biblewonk and to Steven, you guys are intelligent to say the least.

You all could be Mensans very easily.

And what you believe you stand behind passionately.

I advise you to pick your battles carefully, because you all could devastate most any intellectual opponent with panache. Make sure that is what you want before you begin. Otherwise all you are doing is promoting havoc (no offense Havoc).

My prayers are with all of you.

ChinaGotTheGoodsOnClinton (and don’t anyone forget our national security is at risk because of it amoung other things!)

Godspeed China. No hard feelings.

Enjoyed having you here, China. God bless.

BTW ... RCIA=Rite of Catholic Initiation of Adults, doesn't it?

Hey doc, it hurts when I go like this.

Then don't go like that

Cheers,
SD

“Catholic bashing is the last politically correct form of bigotry”, and from what I’ve seen here, I’d have to agree. "

“Well Johnny that just proves you need to pull you balls out from behind your butt and be a man!”

Thanks for your comments, China. Feel free to drop in anytime to say hello. God be with you.

Pray for us all. Times like these remind me, idiotically enough. of a scene in the first "Terminator" The character 'Sarah," is getting gas in a station in the desert. The guy pumping her gas, says, "There's a storm gatherin in the north." As Sarah know what the future means, there is great irony in her answer: "Yes, I know." God willing, we will brave a storm that must come but whose outcome is known but to God. Oremus.

Well Johnny that just proves you need to pull you balls out from behind your butt and be a man!” Well, sonny, do you know that this is like saying "What the matter N-----," Can't you take it?"