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Ancient Egyptian visitors to Australia or miner's mishap? Riddle of the rainforest coin
Australian Broadcasting Corporation ^ | 03 June 2018 | Mark Rigby

Posted on 09/13/2018 11:50:39 AM PDT by Theoria

Unearthed in 1912, squirreled away for a lifetime and then handed in to a museum — the story behind the discovery of an ancient Egyptian coin in far north Queensland is almost as mysterious as how it came to be there.

The bronze coin — about the same size as a 50 cent piece — was minted during the reign of Ptolemy IV, between 221 and 204BC.

More than two millennia later it was found about seven centimetres underground in the depths of the far north Queensland rainforest.

The man who found it, Andrew Henderson, had abandoned the gold mining fields of Victoria for a warmer climate.

"Henderson got a block of land in the scrub and he became a settler," far north Queensland historian, Dave Phoenix said.

"One day in 1912 he was building a fence line and as he was digging a hole for a fence post his shovel hit something metallic.

"He reached into the hole and pulled out this coin."

Henderson paid little attention to the coin at the time; when he returned home, he put it in a drawer and all but forgot about it for the next 40 years.

"When he got into his late 70s, when he was an old man he started divesting himself of his possessions," Mr Phoenix said.

"He gave the coin to his neighbour's 10-year-old son, a guy called Hank Gilmore."

Earlier this year Mr Gilmore offered the coin and its story to the Cairns Museum, sparking an investigation into how it found its way across the world.

A brief history of Ptolemy IV

Dr Andrew Connor, a lecturer in ancient history from Monash University, said to understand how or why the Ptolemaic coin came to rest in the rainforest, it is best to understand the man it was minted in honour of.

"Unlike his three predecessors, Ptolemy IV wasn't terribly interested in ruling," Dr Connor said.

"He spent a lot more time drinking, hanging out and working on his boat — a massive boat that was technically a warship but would probably have been impossible to row so it would have just sat in the water being luxurious.'"

And of the coins minted during Ptolemy IV's rule, Dr Connor said there were three types – gold, silver and bronze; all of which were used to further the influence and fame of the Ptolemaic rulers.

Despite Ptolemy IV's failures as a ruler his descendants ruled most of Egypt until Romans conquered in 30BC.

"Bronze coins were pretty much everywhere in the ancient world," he said.

"We think about the gold and the silver coins because they're nice, but they would have been worth a huge amount of money so for everyday business they would have used bronze."

It is for this reason, Dr Connor said, that bronze Ptolemaic coins often turn up in the most bizarre locations. From desert to rainforest

The Ptolemaic kingdoms spread over the coastline and desert dunes of the area now known as Libya and Egypt — so how did a coin make it from the desert to the rainforest?

Mr Phoenix has pondered several possibilities, including theories from Egyptologists who believe Australia was colonised, or at least visited, by Egyptian sailors prior to European settlement.

The Ptolemaic coin was found three inches underground in thick far north Queensland rainforest.

"Given that the Djabugay people and the Yirrganydji people whose land the coin was found have no oral records of Egyptian people, and given that if there was a colony the only thing they left behind was a coin, that sounds a little bit far fetched," Mr Phoenix said.

He said the area that Henderson found the coin was along an Aboriginal track so it could have been dropped by a Aboriginal person.

"But how an Aboriginal person got the coin is again interesting, it's either going to have come through from Papua New Guinea and traded through the Torres Strait or traded through another part of Australia," he said.

"But again, what would an Aboriginal person have been carting a lump of bronze around for?"

Miner's memento

Among the most probable of theories is that the coin dropped out of a miner's pack as they walked along the Aboriginal trail on the way to the Hodgkinson gold fields west of Cairns.

Late 19th Century miners often carried mementos or trinkets, including ancient coins, with them when they emigrated to Australia.


TOPICS: History
KEYWORDS: ancientnavigation; andrewconnor; andrewhenderson; australia; cairnsmuseum; coin; coins; davephoenix; egypt; epigraphyandlanguage; godsgravesglyphs; greece; greeks; hankgilmore; monashuniversity; navigation; ptolemyiv; queensland

1 posted on 09/13/2018 11:50:39 AM PDT by Theoria
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To: SunkenCiv

Bling ping.


2 posted on 09/13/2018 11:51:43 AM PDT by Theoria (I should never have surrendered. I should have fought until I was the last man alive)
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To: Theoria
Among the most probable of theories is that the coin dropped out of a miner's pack as they walked along the Aboriginal trail on the way to the Hodgkinson gold fields west of Cairns. Late 19th Century miners often carried mementos or trinkets, including ancient coins, with them when they emigrated to Australia.

Oh look what they say at the end of the article. Huh. Well, that seems a lot more likely than an ancient Egyptian crossed the ocean and half an inhospitable continent to drop a coin and leave no other traces of his existence.

3 posted on 09/13/2018 11:57:36 AM PDT by pepsi_junkie (Often wrong, but never in doubt!)
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To: pepsi_junkie

Next, you’re going to try to me that Prince Modoc didn’t visit the Ohio River Valley in the 12th Century!


4 posted on 09/13/2018 12:17:50 PM PDT by bagman
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To: Theoria; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; ...
Thanks Theoria. Hmm, looks like the weekly Digest list ping is coming a day early.

5 posted on 09/13/2018 12:22:47 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (www.tapatalk.com/groups/godsgravesglyphs/, forum.darwincentral.org, www.gopbriefingroom.com)
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To: pepsi_junkie

Especially since the Ancient Egyptians did not like to travel and their greatest fear was dying while not on Egyptian soil.


6 posted on 09/13/2018 12:26:09 PM PDT by The Deplorable Miss Lemon (If illegals are here to do the jobs Americans won't do why are so many illegals on welfare?)
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Among the most probable of theories is that the coin dropped out of a miner's pack as they walked along the Aboriginal trail on the way to the Hodgkinson gold fields west of Cairns.
Yeah, because ancient coin collections are often found the backpacks of itinerant miners. Same stupid argument is made regarding ancient coin finds in North America. Columbus is actually the source of the first report of an ancient coin in the Americas, how about that.

7 posted on 09/13/2018 12:27:04 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (www.tapatalk.com/groups/godsgravesglyphs/, forum.darwincentral.org, www.gopbriefingroom.com)
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To: Theoria
"He(Ptolmey) spent a lot more time drinking, hanging out and working on his boat — a massive boat that was technically a warship but would probably have been impossible to row so it would have just sat in the water being luxurious.'"


8 posted on 09/13/2018 12:41:49 PM PDT by sportutegrl (Being offended is a choice.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Yeah, because ancient coin collections are often found the backpacks of itinerant miners.


The Egyptian/Ptolemy coins are big, heavy and impressive, and surprisingly, not all that hard to come by. Lots of people were in Egypt digging up things 100 years ago and Ptolemic coins aren’t that rare. One could well be a lucky charm a miner might carry with him. Much more likely than the other scenarios.


9 posted on 09/13/2018 12:46:13 PM PDT by hanamizu
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To: Theoria

I could see the coin making it’s way to the Orient then down th Malay Peninsula then on to Indonesia or New Guinea then to Australia.

Sort of a valuable that everyone knew was worth something and being used in trade. Eventually making it’s way to wherever.

Probably a modern hoax tho.


10 posted on 09/13/2018 1:07:21 PM PDT by yarddog
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To: SunkenCiv

Coins have a way of getting around


11 posted on 09/13/2018 1:11:17 PM PDT by BenLurkin (The above is not a statement of fact. It is either satire or opinion. Or both.)
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To: bagman
"Next, you’re going to try to (make) me (believe) that Prince Modoc didn’t visit the Ohio River Valley in the 12th Century!"

(Prince) Madoc In America

12 posted on 09/13/2018 4:04:37 PM PDT by blam
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To: hanamizu
Sure, because prospectors can afford more gold than they're ever likely to find in a year. IOW, no, it is not only not likely, it verges on impossible. It requires that Australia wasn't invisible to seafarers for over 40,000 years, which isn't any great leap.

13 posted on 09/14/2018 10:12:12 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (www.tapatalk.com/groups/godsgravesglyphs/, forum.darwincentral.org, www.gopbriefingroom.com)
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To: BenLurkin
Right. But they don't swim or walk.

14 posted on 09/14/2018 10:12:55 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (www.tapatalk.com/groups/godsgravesglyphs/, forum.darwincentral.org, www.gopbriefingroom.com)
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To: SunkenCiv

Sure, because prospectors can afford more gold than they’re ever likely to find in a year.


Was the found coin gold? The picture I saw made me think it was copper. The Ptolemies did issue gold and silver coins, but gold coins, even coins buried or in the sea for centuries still look nearly new.

I’ll quibble a bit on the idea that a prospector losing a good luck piece requires that Australia was invisible to seafarers.

A anecdote that might be appropriate. When I taught history I involved my students in a program called Ancient Coins in Education. They would each receive a genuine 2nd, 3rd or 4th century Roman coin and attempt to identify the Emperor date, etc. Kids liked it. One day a student brought in some Byzantine coins that she said her uncle found while working on a bridge here in the U.S. Don’t know how or why 1400 year old coins got there, but I doubt the Byzantines got to America.


15 posted on 09/14/2018 10:27:50 AM PDT by hanamizu
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To: Theoria
He spent a lot more time drinking, hanging out and working on his boat

Egypt's first redneck pharaoh. "Hey y'all - hold muh headdress and watch this!"

16 posted on 09/14/2018 10:32:18 AM PDT by Drawsing (Fools show their annoyance at once, the prudent man overlooks an insult. Proverbs 12:16)
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To: Drawsing

Exactly. Just like most of the boats I know around here.


17 posted on 09/14/2018 10:43:25 AM PDT by Theoria (I should never have surrendered. I should have fought until I was the last man alive)
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To: hanamizu
I’ll quibble a bit on the idea that a prospector losing a good luck piece requires that Australia was invisible to seafarers.
That's not what I said, but nice try. The Romans got to America, so having a visit from the Byzanitines would not be surprising.

18 posted on 09/14/2018 11:18:46 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (www.tapatalk.com/groups/godsgravesglyphs/, forum.darwincentral.org, www.gopbriefingroom.com)
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To: SunkenCiv

I’ll quibble a bit on the idea that a prospector losing a good luck piece requires that Australia wasN’T invisible to seafarers.


Sorry, didn’t mean to misquote you. And I don’t mean to claim it was impossible for the coin to have gotten to Australia in ancient time—just much more likely that the coin was lost relatively recently.

Don’t know about Romans getting here. They certainly had the technology and the Quetzalcoatl myth sure makes it seem like someone from the old world made it to Central America long before the Spanish.

As to the Byzantines, it is unlikely that they left their coins on bridgework that was made many centuries after they fell to the Ottomans. Point being, an old coin does not mean it was left in “old times”.

And you will agree, the coin in question is copper/bronze. They were made up to the size of hockey pucks. A 47mm Ptolemy II sold for something like $50, which would indicate that bronze coins of that size would not be that rare or expensive to carry as a good-luck charm. Anyway, here’s a website where you can explore the world of Ptolemeic (and other ancient coinage).

http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/egypt/ptolemy_II/i.html


19 posted on 09/14/2018 12:00:36 PM PDT by hanamizu
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Just a ping message update.

20 posted on 01/19/2022 10:17:44 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
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