Posted on 08/18/2004 5:15:34 PM PDT by SJackson
I was bemoaning the pagan associations and rituals of the olympics. I just mentioned in passing Hitler's use of the olympic flame relay from Olympia to Berlin. > your groundless ideals
Wow, do you actually believe that? How sad.
I consider every non-Theistic moralist to be an irrational hypocrite. In the absence of an Objectively True G-d all that exists are personal subjective moral hang-ups. What gives any human being the right to define the morality of others by his own subjective hang-ups? No matter how many people share such a hang-up (eg, against murder) in the absence of a Creator it remains a mere subjective hang-up. Strange how people who object to legislating G-d's standards have no objections to legislating those of human beings who have no right or authority to define anything as right or wrong, just or unjust, desirable or undesirable.
Free Republic is a conservative forum. I am opposed to Communism and leftism primarily not because they are totalitarian, economically socialist, or because they have murdered millions of people, but primarily simply because it they are non-Theistic moral systems and therefore inherently groundless. And I classify all non-Theistically based moral systems together, regardless of how "benign" they may be. Thomas Jefferson, Karl Marx--what's the difference?
I'll be you enjoyed the opening ceremonies celebrating the "evolution of man as a rational being." Though what the big whoop is about evolving into anything in a meaningless universe is beyond me.
You deny the Creator yet presume to be competent to create a moral code of some sort (which you probably believe others "should" adopt for themselves)? How ridiculous.
> I just mentioned in passing Hitler's use of the olympic flame relay from Olympia to Berlin.
And I drive a Volkswagen. Does that make me an SS death camp guard?
> I consider every non-Theistic moralist to be an irrational hypocrite.
How sad and ill-informed.
> In the absence of an Objectively True G-d all that exists are personal subjective moral hang-ups.
Fortunately for society, people like you don't determine these things. It's generally best left to those with a sense of morals and ethics and reason.
> I'll be you enjoyed the opening ceremonies celebrating the "evolution of man as a rational being."
A bet you'd lose, as I didn't watch it, or any other part of the Olympics. BOOOOORING.
> You deny the Creator yet presume to be competent to create a moral code of some sort
You claim to be competant to create a moral code AND invent a Creator... one more level of ridiculousness.
LL always could be a crotchety old buzzard. But good with a gun.
I consider every non-Theistic moralist to be an irrational hypocrite.
How sad and ill-informed.
How can I be ill informed about my own opinion?
But all kidding aside, if the world is merely a meaningless coincidence then all morality is either subjective personal hang-up or else a mere subjective utilitarian social convention. Where did non-Theists ever get their silly idea that the non-existence of G-d (chas vechalilah!) would only abolish sexual taboos and leave everything else standing? No G-d--no morality. There's only some human beings forcing their hang-ups onto other human beings, which is pretty silly.
In the absence of an Objectively True G-d all that exists are personal subjective moral hang-ups.
Fortunately for society, people like you don't determine these things. It's generally best left to those with a sense of morals and ethics and reason.
Why should any human being determine anything for another human being? Doesn't each human being have the "right" to come up with his own "values system," whether or not it agrees with yours? Oh, I see. You do believe that some human beings have the right to legislate for others. You just oh so modestly place yourself in the category of those "rational" enough to do the legislating. So what's the difference between my objective reality and yours so far as forcing it on other people is concerned other than mine rests on a sound theoretical foundation, whereas yours does not?
You claim to be competant to create a moral code AND invent a Creator... one more level of ridiculousness.
That's funny. I don't recall writing the Torah. I didn't know I was that old! (Though it could explain the way I've been feeling lately.) But I certainly didn't know Hebrew back then (I've only been reading it going on twenty years). Did I write it in English and have somebody translate it for me?
Correction: my study of Biblical Hebrew began nineteen, not twenty, years ago. My apologies for the error.
The people in the article certainly appear to genuinely believe what they're practicing.
> if the world is merely a meaningless coincidence
Life is only meaningless for theists who need to have someone give them meaning.
> No G-d--no morality.
In a word (and appologies to the tender-eared)... that's utter bullshit. You are vastly ignorant of the real world, and I doubt highly that reason woudl reach you. Your bigotry is beyond such things.
> mine rests on a sound theoretical foundation...
A foundation of primitive goat-herd superstition is NOT terribly sound.
And is this meaning "self-evident" to all "rational" people? What happens when "rationalists" disagree among themselves as to what the "meaning" is? What is your argument against other atheists who are Marxist-Leninists? How can you say that their values are objectively "wrong" (and how can they prove the same about yours)?
There is Divine decree and there is utter subjectivism which the strong force on the weak. There is no middle ground.
I knew you were an atheist but I didn't know you were an anti-Semite as well.
Is this Voltaire???
Judaism/Noachism rests on an objective foundation that no other religion ever has had or ever will have.
> Judaism/Noachism rests on an objective foundation that no other religion ever has had or ever will have.
Well, of course not. But then, The Moonies can say the same.
> I knew you were an atheist
Then, as with so many other things, you are wrong again.
"God" is spelled with an "o" in the middle. It's a word easy enough to look up in a dictionary, and basically everybody knows hwo to spell it. Pointing out that you keep mispelling it is not anti-semitism; your bleating that it is simply points out how weak your arguement is.
> And is this meaning "self-evident" to all "rational" people?
To many it is. The fact that you have no meaning in your life apart from what you read in a book does not negate the fact that others do.
> What is your argument against other atheists...
Poor grammar.
>... who are Marxist-Leninists?
What is your arguement against other Jews who are Marxist-Leninists?
Judaism/Noachism rests on an objective foundation that no other religion ever has had or ever will have.
Well, of course not[sic]. But then, The Moonies can say the same.
There you go again.
I told you, I go to the trouble to spell the word that way out of reverence. I'm not compelling you to do the same, so what is bothering you?
To many it is.
To many, but that is just their subjective opinion. Apart from an objective Creator there is no objective truth with any meaning. Even if the world were the product of chance and randomness it wouldn't mean anything, and there certainly wouldn't be a moral obligation to know this "truth" or to believe it. Apart from the Creator, even truth has no moral authority.
The fact that you have no meaning in your life apart from what you read in a book does not negate the fact that others do.
I don't doubt that you can come up with some silly short term thing to give your life "meaning," but this "meaning" is purely subjective . . . unless you're referring to your satisfying your physical requirements, which would give your life all the meaning of a hive of bees.
What is your arguement against other Jews who are Marxist-Leninists?
Um, I'm a Noachide, remember? And I could invoke HaShem and the Torah. You'd just be butting heads with subjectivists who disagree about what the "meaning" is that some people should force on everyone else.
I was wondering who was going to be the first to figure out where those quotes came from.
Good job!!
> I told you, I go to the trouble to spell the word that way
...
And when did you tell me that?
> Apart from an objective Creator there is no objective truth with any meaning.
Says you.
> Um, I'm a Noachide, remember?
No. Why shoudl I rmember soemthign I've neither heard before nor take any meaning from?
> And I could invoke HaShem and the Torah.
And I could invole Hathor and the Stargate SG-1 Writer's Bible, and probably do just about as well.
> Remember this?
Nope.
Yes, really. The Moonies can say that they rest on an objective foundation that no other religion ever has had or ever will have.
The Hari Krishnas, Catholics, Wiccans and whoever else can all say the same. You are unique, just like everybody else.
Apart from an objective Creator there is no objective truth with any meaning.
Says you.
Boy, that's a cogent argument. You forgot to say "nyah-nyah."
For the zillionth time, you may be able to create a "meaning" that suits you personally, but a Creator is necessary for any such meaning to be universal and objective.
Remember this?
Nope.
Yeah, that was intelligent. What's the matter, don't you know any html? Do you know what a hyper-link is?
Yes, really. The Moonies can say that they rest on an objective foundation that no other religion ever has had or ever will have.
The Hari Krishnas, Catholics, Wiccans and whoever else can all say the same. You are unique, just like everybody else.
Did you refuse to read the article I referenced out of ignorance as to what a hyper-link is or because you were afraid its logic would cut the ground out from under your position?
I honestly don't understand why I have infuriated you so. This whole thing started with my reference to the pagan connotations of the olympic flame and you act as if I had insulted your mother.
Why don't you relax? If you really believe that the world is random and meaningless then why don't you start acting like it??? FCOL, if you've got some crazy idea that I'm ever gonna come knockin' at your door with a sword to put at your neck to force you to my way of thinking, then you're wrong (I simply believe that the True Religion must inevitably triumph in the end). In fact, seems to me that you're trying every bit as hard to convert me to your way of thinking! Now I can understand why a "religious fanatic" like myself would be a "missionary," but what is your excuse?
Now calm down, Sunshine! And while you're at it, learn some html like the rest of us have had to do. Let that be your "phony reason for living" for the day.
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