Baptism (Immersion) essential to salvation

Lessons from Acts | 1991 | Ken L. Miller, Ed.D.

[arrogantduck]

What do you when 3000 persons respond to a sermon and want to be immersed in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins? What do you do when this number of 3000 is added to daily?...

[arrogantduck]

I am currently in conflict with our preacher and one of our leaders. They believe that salvation comes before baptism and that baptism is nessecary only for the gift of the Holy Spirit. I believe that salvation occurs when you are baptised as in Acts 2:38 " Repent and be baptised for the remission of your sins..." Neither man can explain their views around this passage. I am asking for views from both sides of this issue as the three of us are set to begin a bible study soon on this issue. I was raised in the church of Christ. This church is a Union church between what was once a methodist church that hired a baptist preacher. Please respond with scripture and not just opinion. I have tried to explain 1 Peter 3 and Mark 16 also. Romans and 1 Corinthians will be explored soon along with Galatians. Any views are appreciated as this is an open minded study to encourage the truth of the scriptures,

[newgeezer]

So, the thief on the cross got special treatment?

Ping.

[newgeezer]

As I understand it, we are baptized with the Holy Spirit at the moment we believe. Water baptism is an outward sort of proclamation which happens afterwards, and is not required for salvation.

[mike182d]

Where is the scripture that says it must be done by full immersion? There is no protocol outlined.

[biblewonk]

I used to debate with an AP everyday. He finally admitted that I was not a Christian because I couldn't speak in tongues and hadn't been baptised in the name of Jesus.

[newgeezer]

Where is the scripture that says it must be done by full immersion? There is no protocol outlined.

As I've heard it, "baptism" is a word that, for whatever reason, was not translated during the translation. If it had been translated instead of transliterated, the translation would be "immersion."

So, what you're asking is sort of like asking, "Where is the Scripture that says 'repent' means to turn away from sin?"

[mike182d]

For lack of time, I submit the following from another source:

"But immersion is not the only meaning of baptizo [in Greek]. Sometimes it just means washing up. Thus Luke 11:38 reports that, when Jesus ate at a Pharisee’s house, "[t]he Pharisee was astonished to see that he did not first wash [baptizo] before dinner." They did not practice immersion before dinner, but, according to Mark, the Pharisees "do not eat unless they wash [nipto] their hands, observing the tradition of the elders; and when they come from the market place, they do not eat unless they wash themselves [baptizo]" (Mark 7:3–4a, emphasis added). So baptizo can mean cleansing or ritual washing as well as immersion."

http://www.catholic.com/library/Baptism_Immersion_Only.asp

[biblewonk]

I suspect you all also believe you can lose your salvation too. A good friend of mine went to a Church of Christ and that was something they believed.

[mike182d]

How can you attain salvation before you're in heaven?

[biblewonk]

You can be secure in Jesus. You don't have to wonder if you are good enough or if you can maintain a certain amount of works. You don't have to wonder if you will go to purgatory or worry that the Pope or some other tall hat will pronounce you unfit. You don't have to worry about God taking away the gift of faith. It was never your faith in the first place, you never earned it, and it is secure.

[newgeezer]

I suspect you all also believe you can lose your salvation

Uh, no. Not me.

[HuntsvilleTxVeteran]

I think doing a ritual exactly the correct way (what ever that is) is trumping believing in Christ.:)

[mike182d]

Did Judas lose his salvation or is he in heaven?

[Mr. Jeeves]

The human rituals are always more important than the spiritual salvation...especially when one can collect hard cash for performing the rituals. ;)

[shekkian]

He finally admitted that I was not a Christian because I couldn't speak in tongues ...

I can speak some basic Russian. Does that count?

[arrogantduck]

The thief was saved because the it was before the day of pentecost

[shekkian]

I suspect you all also believe you can lose your salvation too.

Under certain extreme curcumstances, I believe that too, although I can't really back it up at this time.

[arrogantduck]

What passage(s) of scripture do you arrive at that conclusion. I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong but I need scriptural references.

[jo kus]

"You can be secure in Jesus"

Yes. Paul says nothing can keep us from the love of God and we can trust Jesus' promise. However, Scripture clearly tells us that WE can fall away from Christ. If we do not return, as the Prodigal son, we damn ourselves.

Btw, Purgatory is for the saved, and only God Himself can declare someone "fit" for heaven. Church teaching is that no one specific is in Hell. We don't know Hitler's faith in Christ before he died. (odds good he is not among the saved). God doesn't take away our gift. We give it up. Again, the prodigal son walked away on his own, he was not kicked out.

Regards

[biblewonk]

Judas died before the Church was born.