Baptism (Immersion) essential to salvation

Lessons from Acts | 1991 | Ken L. Miller, Ed.D.

[mike182d]

Both.

[newgeezer]

I cannot imagine Jesus appointing an Apostle that did not believe in Him.

With all due respect, there are countless things God has done and is doing and has yet to do which I could not have imagined. My thoughts are not His thoughts. My ways are not His ways.

Frankly, I could not have imagined the Almighty subjecting Himself to the whims of his creation in order to save those who rebelled against Him. Still, He did just that. The message of the Cross is foolishness to those who are perishing.

[jo kus]

"Baptism: I understand the following scripture as immersion (besides the very definition of baptism is immersion). I understand this because the scripture says "buried with Him" - I'm sure we all understand what a burial is."

The point of sacraments, rituals, is to bring to our minds (through the visible rituals) what God is doing invisibly behind the scenes. Our minds are supposed to call to mind what washing does for us - it cleanses us. That is what God is doing in Baptism. The Fathers (and Paul) see that water also destroys (the flood). So the old man dies through the water. The ritual allows us to participate in this invisible action of God in our lives. To do this in the best manner, we should be immersed! We should get soaked! However, IT IS NOT THE RITUAL ITSELF, BUT GOD, THAT IS DOING THE ACTION! We must remember that. The ritual is for our minds, our senses. The important thing is that it is God's action that cleanses us, not our imagination, the water, or our knowing what is going on. By completing the action perscribed by the Church, we become a child of God - whether by sprinkling or immersion. Immersion is the best way, but not absolutely necessary.

Regards

[arrogantduck]

Thank you for using text chapter and verse and staying on topic. I am guessing by the passages you quoted (the same ones on my list) that you and I agree, at least to some extent. I believe, also that allscripture works together and that many topics, like this one, are misunderstood because of context eradication. Thank you again, Lea, for your insight and time to type all that in. david

[shekkian]

What I mean is when you look at the case of Roger Martinez, who was the singer/growler of a Christian metal band, Vengeance Rising back in the 80's. Through a series of unpleasant events within the band and personal conflict, he eventually renounced his salvation and turned completely atheist.

Later, his pastor was talking with Roger's ex-wife, and she said he was a Christian at one time. The pastor said, in that case he still is. In my mind, it just didn't connect.

Furthermore, how about that guy who shot up that church in Wisconsin and then killed himself. What happens to him now?

[mike182d]

So, you're saying that the position of Apostle, with the power to heal, forgive sins, teach, was bestowed upon someone who did not believe in Christ?

Judas professed a belief in Christ, but it wasn't enough to secure his salvation.

[arrogantduck]

I believe, as referenced in Truthess' post, that baptism refers to immersion, being buried with Christ and rising to be a new creature

[mike182d]

Judas never believed in Christ. He never had the faith. JM

Which Apostles had faith, then?

[mike182d]

Furthermore, how about that guy who shot up that church in Wisconsin and then killed himself. What happens to him now?

Well, if he said a prayer in his life that "saved" him, and professed Jesus Christ as his personal Lord and Savior, it doesn't matter what "works" he did. He can be sure of his salvation. /sarcasm

[biblewonk]

How did David make it to Heaven?

[TheTruthess]

Is baptism a part of salvation?

Concerning the necessity of baptism for salvation, the Scriptures teach that it is as necessary as anything else that God commands us to do in order to be saved, forgiven. That is, we must believe in Jesus as the Son of God, repent of our sins, confess Him to be the Son of God and be baptized in order to be forgiven. I believe this because the Scriptures plainly teach it. Jesus authorized the apostles to baptize people for forgiveness of sins and that's exactly what they did.

MAT 28:18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.

MAT 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

MAT 28:20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age. "

 MAR 16:15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.

MAR 16:16 "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

ACT 2:36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ-- this Jesus whom you crucified."

ACT 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brethren, what shall we do?"

ACT 2:38 And Peter said to them, "Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The problem that many have is believing that somehow baptism is separated from the faith we are supposed to express toward Jesus. However, the Bible teaches that the believer who repents and confesses Jesus is expressing trust in the sacrifice and resurrection of Jesus when he is baptized.

 ROM 6:1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace might increase?

ROM 6:2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?

ROM 6:3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?

ROM 6:4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

ROM 6:5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection,

ROM 6:6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, that our body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin;

ROM 6:7 for he who has died is freed from sin.

COL 2:11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;

COL 2:12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

COL 2:13 And when you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,

 Faith involves responding to God as He has directed so that we might benefit from the saving work that Jesus has accomplished for us by shedding His blood and entering into heaven on our behalf as High Priest before God.

Finally, the Scriptures teach that baptism is that turning point where our sins are washed away and we come into a relationship with Christ.

ACT 22:16 'And now why do you delay? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.'

GAL 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

GAL 3:27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

GAL 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

GAL 3:29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

http://www.biblesearch.com/answers/salvation/baptism1.htm

 

[mike182d]

The same way Moses, Elijah, Jeremiah, Abraham, and Isaiah did.

[arrogantduck]

I am saying that on the day of pentecost the apostles were preaching with a full dispensation of the Holy Spirit and that the organized missionary status of the apostles had begun. There is no mention of people being added to the number of the saved called the church in Acts ch2 any where before the day of pentecost. Jesus called Peter a rock and said "...upon this rock I will build my church." Will being the key word and is it any wonder that Peter was preaching when the men were pricked in their hearts and they asked Peter what they must do and Peter said Rpent and be baptised in the name of Jesus for the remission of your sins.

[newgeezer]

Judas professed a belief in Christ,

When or where? It seems you're making an assumption, jumping to conclusions based on your human understanding of how things should work.

[JohnnyM]

We have passages in the Bible such as Mark 16 that say baptism is needed for salvation and we have passages such as John 3:16 that speak only of belief to be saved, with no mention of Baptism. In fact, the passages that speak only of belief far outnumber the ones that mention baptism, nevertheless, there is confusion in these passages. The answer comes down to what it means to be truly saved.

There are two types of salvation when people speak of being saved. One is salvation from Gods wrath. This salvation is most commonly referred to as eternal life. The other salvation is being saved from the world. Both of these are needed for "true" salvation. One can have eternal life, but not yet be saved from the world.

To see this in action, one but has to look at the Israelites fleeing Egypt. The OT is a wonderful guide for our faith. The Israelites through their belief were saved from the wrath of God (through the angel of Death) and the plagues that were meted upon Egypt. They were then freed from their slavery to Egypt. This is analogous to the believer being freed from a slavery to sin and the wrath of God's judgement upon him. But the Isrealites, although freed from this bondage were not yet free from Egypt. For Egypt still followed after them, attempting to destroy them. It was not until the Isrealites passed through the waters of the Red Sea and the Egyptians were drowned that they were truly free from them. This is analagous to our being baptized in water. When we are baptized we are saying that we have died to this world and in effect the world has died to us (the Egyptians were drowned!!!) and we are identifying our selves with Christ. We have been saved from the world. We no longer have the Egyptians on our tail.

Another example would be that of marriage. The wedding ring is a symbol of our union. It tells the world that we are married and now have certain privileges that we did not have prior to marriage. Baptism is a symbol telling the world that they have no part in us and that we are Christ's alone. We now also have certain privileges. Christ's ministry did not begin until after He was baptized and I believe that our ministry cannot begin until we have been baptized. As long as we remain unbaptized we are still identified with the world and seen as being a part of the world. It is not until we are baptized that the world sees us as dead to them and therefore an enemy.

To sum up, baptism is symbol of our death and new life in Christ. It is not needed for eternal life, but is necessary to be saved from the world.

JM

[mike182d]

When or where? It seems you're making an assumption, jumping to conclusions based on your human understanding of how things should work.

Of course I'm making a presumption; every belief we have about Christ is a presumption. What I'm saying is that on what logical grounds can you claim that Judas didn't believe in Christ, but Andrew, Matthew, or even Peter did? And yet we presume they did...

[TheTruthess]

Question:  Different denominations teach different methods of baptism. They are either sprinkled or actually pushed down into the water and then brought up. Are there any Scriptures that support this one way or another? It would seem that the pushing down and being brought back up actually demonstrates the dying and rising of Jesus Christ.

Answer:  Yes, there is much confusion as to the method or methods of baptism.  Which is right?  Is there only one method or several?

To answer this question, we will first look at the origin of the word "baptism".  Then, we will note some Scripture that will complement our initial observations.

Much of the confusion comes from a misunderstanding of the word itself.  Baptism comes from the word "baptizo" in the Greek.  The word means to dip, sink or submerge, immerse.  Therefore, in the very definition of the word itself we have clearly portrayed to us the method by which were are to be baptized.  To be baptized in water means to be submerged or immersed in water, to be placed under the water.

Confusion has come because the English word baptism is a transliteration of the Greek word baptizo.  In other words, it was an English-sounding word that was created by the translators of the King James version in the 17th century.  Therefore, it creates much controversy when there should be none about this matter.

As to Scripture to support this view, you are correct in pointing to Romans 6:1-7 to show that baptism (immersion) does most closely demonstrate the connection between Christ's death, burial and resurrection to our own death, burial and resurrection (spiritually speaking).  We die to sin, are buried with Him and then are raised up with Him to walk in newness of life, being forgiven of all our sins.  This occurs when we having believed, repented and confessed His name, are immersed and raised up out of the water.

This is confirmed as we read the account of the conversion of the Ethiopian eunuch who submitted to baptism.  Acts 8:26-40.  They both went down into the water and then came up out of the water.

Finally, this is confirmed further when we read John 3:23.  Here, we note that John the Baptist baptized people in a certain place because there was much water there.   Therefore, this implies that there had to be enough water to immerse people in that place.

The conclusion of the whole matter is, the only acceptable method of baptism is reflected in the very definition of the word itself, to sink, submerge, immerse.  No other method such as sprinkling, pouring or any other, can be acceptable in God's sight

http://www.biblesearch.com/answers/salvation/baptism1.htm

 

[mike182d]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/1368765/posts?page=7#7

[newgeezer]

on what logical grounds can you claim that Judas didn't believe in Christ, but Andrew, Matthew, or even Peter did?

I don't see any evidence in the Bible that Judas ever professed faith. You're the one saying he did, and basing it entirely on what you deem is "logical." Indeed, that's probably the same sort of logic that gives you a Mary who was immaculately conceived, perpetually sinless, perpetually virgin, and never experienced a bodily death.

[JohnnyM]

1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.

JM