Posted on 09/09/2019 2:59:43 PM PDT by ransomnote
A quick search found that the Talmud is a collection of writings. Those writings were written over the period of the 2nd - 5th Century AD.
The 10 Commandments are from Moses' trip up the mountain -- but as the Israelites remained (for the most part) on the plain below, they could hear the commandments as they were pronounced. So, about 1450 BC.
The Babylonian Talmud and the Jerusalem Talmud are similar but not identical; they were written during the period of rabbinical Judaism, IOW, after the destruction of the First Temple by the Babylonians under Nebuchadnezzar (about 586 BC). The Babylonian Talmud, at least, was comprehensively edited in the middle ages, because most Jews (particularly the learned Jews, the rabbis) still lived in the former heart of Babylon.
The Jews of India descend for the most part from a small colonizing group from Baghdad which nearly met its end when the ship cracked up on the Indian coast.
The Jews of Tunisia (especially the isle of Djerba) by their own tradition got there because of the destruction of the First Temple; the El Ghriba synagogue is purportedly the oldest in the world. Rather than rabbis, the Jews of Djerba have kohens (descendants of Aaron).
Talmud
Between the 2nd and 5th centuries CE these rabbinic discussions about the Mishnah were recorded in Jerusalem and later in Babylon (now Al Hillah in Iraq).
https://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/judaism/texts/talmud.shtml
Bible
https://www.biblica.com/resources/bible-faqs/when-was-the-bible-written/
the actual transcription, writing down of the Talmud, was generally between 100 and 500 (so it started about the time of the gospel of John and went forward)... but it was a massive effort ... recording what had been the entire (or at least a very substantial part) of the received oral teachings going back to the time of Moses and Sinai. the teaching is, of course, that the Talmud(s) was given to Moses at Sinai at the same time as the 10 commandments, partly to explain what they meant and how they are to be understood and applied, and also filling in some essential details to the “Biblical” teachings
however, some sections of the Talmud clearly represent events or conditions known to have occurred later than that, so the best we can say is that it probably contains much material from the Biblical age and when it was written down then some additional material or editing had to take place.
ask a faithful Jew and you’ll be told it was taught from Gd to Moses while he was up the mountain.... ask a scholar and he’ll tell you it obviously contains some ancient material but clearly went through development with some additions in the later years, including while it was being transcribed
as with all this stuff from long ago, things develop.. you can see this development in the understanding about Jesus if you just start with Paul, the earliest canonized writer, who had nothing whatsoever unusual to report about Jesus’ birth and whose Christology, if you will, while somewhat ambiguous was pretty clearly more of the greek type than the eventual trinitarian doctrine.........................and then look at the earliest gospel Mark... an adoptionist sort of Christology.. again nothing special about Jesus’ birth or youth...being called out adopted at his baptism....... then get to Matthew and Luke.. and while differing somewhat, they believed Jesus had a special birth and his special status deriving from then.................finally of course the latest gospel of John, with the most extensive Christology with Jesus pre-existing his birth, etc etc. but still not a modern style trinity yet as that doctrine developed over the next 300 years or so to its present day form
not saying who is right or wrong.
just saying that accounts or understandings or stories or doctrines do tend to develop over time
sorry for ramble, hope something above is helpful
best,
fhc
yes, in that close by area, which is my little theory that perhaps Jesus’ objection was just THAT, since he’d never object to ditching (trading in) the idolatrous Roman and Greek coinage... keeping them out of the sacred temple grounds....putting the exchange tables clearly OUTSIDE and perhaps out of sight.. would have solved that problem better , much better, than putting the tables right by the front door or in the outer entry, courtyard, etc... this would have been very consistent with Jesus’ overall worship, faith principles as I understand them.........but this is only my idea .....
Save a sheep. Sacrifice an Muzzie.
They have “fallen from Grace” ...
At least they recognize they have sins that need atoning for but they choose the wrong venue...how .....Old Covenant...
I know for a fact that a great majority of Torah Sages reject this so-called "sanhedron" outright. I've also read that they're involved in the ecumenical movement. This could be the Jewish version of the Amazon synod.
While it's nice that someone is standing up for traditional Biblical chronology, I'd stay far away.
You don't care what G-d wants. What an attitude.
You're assuming chrstianity is true. Funny how everyone does that without even thinking about it.
The Ark was not in the Second Temple a d didn’t prevent it from being the Temple.
Oh, so that's what this is about--the evil "Talmudic" new world order. I should have known.
The so-called Ten Commandments (which the Bible itself calls the "Ten Words" or "ten utterances") are not being replaced. They have never applied to non-Jews--not ever. The Noachide Laws were given to Adam in the Garden of Eden, repeated in a modified form to Noah after the Flood (this is the covenant non-Jews live under today), and given final form at Mt. Sinai. If you think the Left supports the universal moral demands of A-mighty G-d then you apparently haven't noticed the kind of stuff the Left promotes.
I wonder . . . do you object to any universally true religion? Is every potentially universally true religion (which is just about all of them) a suspect of being the new world order? Doesn't chrstianity claim to be a universal religion? Or perhaps you would prefer a different "gxd" and religion for every ethnic group under the sun? That would certainly stop all this "race mixing."
The whole point of the "new world order" is that it is a false counterpart to something true and from G-d. Only an ethnolatrous palaeocon would object to the final universal triumph of the One G-d.
The Noahide Laws are also deduced from God’s admonitions to the people before the revelation at Sinai. It’s the ancient Jewish answer to the question of what moral laws were expected of people before Mt. Sinai. Did Cain know he was sinning?
Oh yes I'm sure you know all about it. Never mind that they know the (unwritten) laws for correctly transcribing the Torah so it looks exactly like the one first written down by Moses. They don't have a Thomas Nelson printed translation like you do.
If any book is like the "book of mormon," it's the "new testament."
According to chrstianity. The issue is whether or not chrstianity is actually true. It's hardly self-evident, as you seem to think.
The "Ten Commandments" (as chrstians wrongly call them) are part of the Holy Torah, which was written before the universe was created. "Talmud" (which means "learning") is actually a form of logic and study of the Oral Torah that was given along with the Written Torah on Mt. Sinai. There was a whole routine of study by the entire Jewish nation which is summarized in one of Rambam's works (I'm not sure which one, though it's probably Mishneh Torah). This oral instruction was passed on from generation to generation and was actually forbidden to be written down until the days of the evil Emperor Hadrian (rot his bones!). He unleashed such a persecution on the Jews that the Oral Torah was actually in danger of being totally lost (G-d forbid!). In such a case it was permitted to write it down to conserve it for posterity.
The set of volumes called the "Talmud" consist of two parts: the Mishnah and the Gamarah. The Mishnah was finalized by Rabbi Yehudah HaNasi' in the third chrstian century. The Gamarah was finalized in the fourth century. It is not a mere list of laws but contains arguments and discussions on almost every issue because what it is trying to teach is not merely laws but the method of Halakhic reasonig demanded by the Oral Torah as conveyed to Moses.
I know Catholics and Orthodox hypocritically hate the Talmud (after all, they all exalt their own unwritten traditions and post-Biblical writings), but it's a shame to see American Fundamentalist Protestants falling for this Nazi nonsense.
And by the way--please save your time and don't start re-fighting the Reformation here. That's a Catholic/Protestant thing and has absolutely no meaning in the context of Torah.
Fine, but will this “religion of religions”, peacefully accept Christians? Nope. Kinda cements the obvious.
My mistake. It was the fifth chrstian century, as another poster pointed out. I regret the error.
“trying to teach is not merely laws but the method of Halakhic reasoning”
That makes your position no better than those of the Catholics,Orthodox, and especially the protestants.
You speak of a “method” of interpretation demanded by the Oral Torah but that still sounds like the “traditions and rituals of men”. Messiah, as I admittedly understand him to be(and accept the fact that you don’t; just admitting my own prebias.), had criticized the religious leaders of his day for following such traditions and methods of interpretation, INSTEAD of the direct commands of the Torah itself.
So are you not simply declaring a pox on the Christians while not admitting to the pustulating lesions you yourself are scraping in vain but finding no relief for the same itch?
Good luck with attributing the consistency of the Torah to the actions of a group of men, instead of giving Abba Father YHWH the Glory!
This is the Greatest Story Ever Told! The End was Determined from The Beginning. Everyone plays their part in getting to the appointed set of events at the appointed times.
The question is: Where are you going to be in the next cycle? In the New Heaven or in Perdition? Is your name in the Book of Life?
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