Blame it on Martin Luther?

Christian Post ^ | 12/06/2021 | Carl R. Trueman

[marktwain]

Importantly, Modernity lead to the defeat and containment of Islam.

[chajin]

Luther did not cause modernity, but Lutheran practice devolved into modernity through Kant primarily. To this day, down-and-dirty Lutherans think of themselves as the true inheritors of the Catholic church, devoid of all the Renaissance frufru (both cultural and theological). In America Lutheranism became an ethnic German/Scandinavian phenomenon, but that was not at all Luther’s intention.

[circlecity]

“At the end of my lecture, every single question I was asked related to the burning of Michael Servetus by the Genevan authorities in 1553”

People tend to forget that Servetus had already been arrested, imprisoned and sentenced to death by order of the RC church. He escaped and fled to Geneva. He didn’t learn his lesson, continued in his behavior and was arrested by the civil (but still very religious) government of Geneva. At a trial where Calvin acted as prosecutor he was convicted and sentenced to death by the court. Calvin asked that he not be burned as a form of execution but the civil authorities ignored him.

[Southside_Chicago_Republican]

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[Dr. Sivana]

I think Belloc and Chesterton were promoting Distributism as an economic system that would allow for more medieval elements. The author of this piece is very well-read, and he is undoubtedly familiar with many Catholic theologians, philosophers, historians (e.g. Warren Carroll) and thinkers who talk about the "Perfect Storm" of factors combining.

Trent probably came 100 years too late. Islam's attacks complicated the military solutions that might have happened against Protestant uprisings. A lot of moving parts and it is not difficult to attribute the outcome to all of the elements mentioned by the writer. The proportions of cause can and will be debated forever. Even if Martin Luther wasn't born in a vacuum, though, he was the catalyst who set all in motion the way it was.

[Dr. Sivana]

Boy, those Germans are sure trouble-makers . . . Kant, Nietzsche, Freud, Marx, Wagner, Hegel, Bismarck. I am purposefully avoiding the big one from the 20th century in order to not invoke Godwin’s Law.

[who_would_fardels_bear]

Charlemagne and the collection of warring pagan tribes into the Holy Roman Empire, Charles Martel, and the Battle of Lepanto all happened before the Modern Age and were all pivotal in holding off Islam.

[metmom]

People tend to forget that Servetus had already been arrested, imprisoned and sentenced to death by order of the RC church. He escaped and fled to Geneva. He didn’t learn his lesson, continued in his behavior and was arrested by the civil (but still very religious) government of Geneva. At a trial where Calvin acted as prosecutor he was convicted and sentenced to death by the court. Calvin asked that he not be burned as a form of execution but the civil authorities ignored him.

Pesky facts…..

[Salvavida]

Thanks for posting that. Excellent essay.

My only critique is the author is his exclusion of the bigger picture gained by Scripture (a King, a Kingdom, a bride, a judgment, and eternal governance), which causes him to focus solely on human agency.

Here is an idea: Luther was used by the providence of God begin a cleansing of the Bride of Christ, while leaving the corruption of the Catholic Church intact for the last days. Everything else is just window dressing.

And here is the rub: We should all aspire to be Donatists by examining Scripture and contending for the faith by reclaiming New Testament Christianity. Modernity isn’t relevant in this pursuit because corruption will always be in the midst of the church: the only salient question is, “What do we intend to do about it?”

[marktwain]

The battle of Lepanto was in 1571. It was won in large part, because Europe was developing modernity. The Protestant reformation was well underway. The cannon mounted on the Christian ships made a huge difference in the outcome. The wealth being generated by the New World exploration was a large factor.

I would say 1571 is well into the early modern period.

[viewfromthefrontier]

Here is an idea: Luther was used by the providence of God begin a cleansing of the Bride of Christ, while leaving the corruption of the Catholic Church intact for the last days. Everything else is just window dressing.

Very thought-provoking. Thank you

[Bassfisher2022]

And catholic church is still run by old men who do not want to give up their power or position...hmmmm...sound like our congress.

[Campion]

We should all aspire to be Donatists

We should all aspire to embrace a second-century heresy?

[Verginius Rufus]

The Donatists began in the 4th century.

[Faith Presses On]

On the one hand, God has permitted it all. On the other, it’s all been His plan, as He’s ultimately sovereign over everything people do in both obedience and rebellion towards Him.

And from the human side, there’s been technological change along with fateful unforeseen events like the fall of the Byzantine Empire and the accidental discovery of the Americas by Europeans.

Then, too, there’s the Catholic sponsored “Renaissance.” Surprisingly for what would superficially be considered a Christian development, it’s beloved by unbelievers, who don’t seem threatened or offended by it at all. The liberal teachers I had in high school and college talked of it most reverently. As my liberal high school Social Studies teacher taught us, the Renaissance shifted the cultural focus from God to man, and from the group to the individual.

So the answer isn’t found in the actions of any one person, unless we’re identifying that one person as God. And if it hadn’t been Luther expressing problems with the Catholic Church, it would have been others, just as there were others.

[delchiante]

Quote
Here is an idea: Luther was used by the providence of God begin a cleansing of the Bride of Christ, while leaving the corruption of the Catholic Church intact for the last days. Everything else is just window dressing.

Providence indeed.
Leviticus 14 and the leprous house in the natural, has a spiritual house application.

The High Priest is coming back and will survey the house..
See if the leprous spots have come back after the repair work.

[Salvavida]

What heresy do you speak of?

If you look at the primary sources, they wanted to return to NT Christianity, opposed infant baptism, and opposed the chickenshit church leadership that departed during the persecutions, and wanted to come back in as if nothing happened.

So, yeah, Maureen Tilley was one of my professors.

[Cronos]

I don’t think modernity led to the defeat and containment of Islam.

Islam had already been contained before by the Eastern Romans in the 9th century.

During the Catholic-Protestant disagreements, you had Hungarian calvinists fighting on the side of the Muslim Ottomans against catholic Hungarians and catholic Austrians. You had Queen Elizabeth I allying with the Barbery pirates against Catholic Spain.

And you had Catholic France allying with the Ottomans against Catholic Hapsburgs - but then the French are always perfidious.

the defeat and containment of Islam was due to
1. the work of al-Ghazali destroying the scientific questioning in the Islamic world
2. Hulagu Khan who destroyed Baghdad and the Caliphate, ending the triumphalism of Islam
3. the reconquista again giving a moral blow to Islam
4. the Marathas conquering the Gurkhani (i.e. the “Mughal”) empire.

did modernity really “contain” it?

[Campion]

The fathers uniformly affirm that infant baptism was practiced in apostolic times.

The logical result of Donatism is to assert that the power of the sacraments comes from the righteousness of the human minister, rather than from Christ himself with the minister being merely a visible mediator or stand-in.

I don't think you really want that.