Posted on 09/11/2022 5:05:02 PM PDT by Roman_War_Criminal
(Wikipedia) Martin Luther called Revelation "neither apostolic nor prophetic" in the 1522 preface to his translation of the New Testament (he revised his position with a much more favorable assessment in 1530),[43] Huldrych Zwingli labelled it "not a book of the Bible",[44] and it was the only New Testament book on which John Calvin did not write a commentary.[45] As of 2015, Revelation remains the only New Testament book not read in the Divine Liturgy of the Eastern Orthodox Church,[46] though Catholic and Protestant liturgies include it.
I think it's a fascinating book, but wonder how authentic it is.
The Rapture teaching is based on one line in one book in scripture.
There is probably no “teaching” that has wasted more lives in scripture than this one.
Its not going to happen!
Take control over your own life and stop waiting for Jesus to save you.
No need because John went into revealing what was going to happen. No need to mention any churches anymore since he said all he had to to the various churches.
I believe they are the same event. The rapture of God’s people occurs at Christ’s second coming.
The book of Revelation was widely accepted as scripture by the earliest church fathers. It wasn’t until the late 3rd century that some began to question it.
The various verses the rapture folks use for this false teaching all describe the same event, that being the Second Coming of Christ. You can’t pull verses out of context. They have to be read within the meaning and intent of the book in which they are found. We could delve into detailed specifics if you have the time and interest.
For example in Thessalonians, Paul is addressing the concern in that church about the disposition of the dead at the time of the Second Coming. They thought that those who were still alive at that time would have some kind of privileged position. Paul assures them that everyone, the living and the dead, will share in the Lord’s triumphant return because “we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep”
How is the marriage supper of the Lamb in heaven that is happening during the Tribulation period going to work when the church, His bride, is on earth, not in heaven, getting the snot beat out of them?
FWIW, you did not provide verses that support your position.
All you did was disagree with what is commonly recognized.
Show us from Scripture that the church is on earth during the Tribulation and being judged by God throughout it.
The marriage supper happens upon the return of Christ when his church is raptured. In Revelation 19 the marriage supper and the second coming are spoken of as the same event.
John says the tribulation has already started at the time he was writing Revelation. (Rev. 1.9) and we read in chapters 1-2 that some of the 7 churches are experiencing severe persecution.
Unfortunately, this verse does not say what you are claiming it says.
As pointed out above, there is a difference between tribulation that we all suffer to varying degrees, and The Tribulation that we describe as God's wrath being poured out over the Earth.
It was the former that John was referring in that verse.
I disagree. There is no reason to assume this - John uses a definite article here “THE tribulation” not some generalized notion of “tribulations”.
I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
In the Greek, there is. It’s “en ho thlipsis,” “in the tribulation/oppression/etc.”.
In the Greek text the definite article “ho” is there. The KJV is based on Erasmus’ Greek text and Erasmus had no manuscript for the book of Revelation. Nor did Beza or Stephanos - the two who updated Erasmus’ text. Erasmus used a commentary borrowed from a friend and even had resort to translating Latin passages from the Vulgate into Greek. We have many Greek manuscripts now.
The good news is, our salvation doesn’t depend upon a belief in the rapture. Keep reading, keep studying and keep on freepin.
See post #36, also.
I agree with post #36. I believe it is always dangerous to ground doctrine on any passage from apocalyptic prophecy.
trying to interpret revelation is a fools errand
Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; Revelation 1:3
I think the prophecy contradicts your statement.
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