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Starvation 'wiped out' giant deer
BBC ^ | 16 Nov 2009 | Matt Walker

Posted on 11/16/2009 9:47:20 AM PST by BGHater

The giant deer, also known as the giant Irish deer or Irish elk, is one of the largest deer species that ever lived.

Yet why this giant animal, which had massive antlers spanning 3.6m, suddenly went extinct some 10,600 years ago has remained a mystery.

Now a study of its teeth is producing tantalising answers, suggesting the deer couldn't cope with climate change.

As conditions became colder and drier in Ireland at the time, fewer plants grew, gradually starving the deer.

The discovery is published in the journal Palaeogeography, Palaeoclimatology, Palaeoecology.

The giant deer (Megaloceros giganteus) has become famous over the past few centuries.

In the early 1800s, discoveries of its remains opened up the debate about whether animal species had previously become extinct, and whether new life-forms could be discovered in the fossil record.

Around this time, conflicting ideas as to why the animal went extinct began to emerge.

Initial ideas ranged from the Biblical flood described by Genesis, to the idea that humans had wiped them out.

However, the archaeological record suggests that people did not arrive in Ireland until after the last Ice Age, after most giant deer had disappeared.

There is also little evidence that the deer had any predators in Ireland.

A popular idea that also emerged was that the deer's huge antlers, spanning up to 3.6m, grew disproportionately large due to sexual selection.

Females became attracted to and mated with males with ever larger antlers, according to the idea, and eventually the antlers became so unwieldy that the deer became mired in clay soils, where they perished.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.bbc.co.uk ...


TOPICS: History; Science
KEYWORDS: belongsinreligion; catastrophe; catastrophism; climatechange; deer; godsgravesglyphs; ireland; science

1 posted on 11/16/2009 9:47:21 AM PST by BGHater
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To: SunkenCiv

‘the deer couldn’t cope with climate change.’

SUV ping.


2 posted on 11/16/2009 9:49:03 AM PST by BGHater ("real price of every thing ... is the toil and trouble of acquiring it")
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To: BGHater

I believe this makes more sense than the silly theory that man wiped out the Wooly Mammoth - even though North America was sparsely populated by humans at the time.


3 posted on 11/16/2009 9:49:38 AM PST by ohioman
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To: BGHater

Guess I’m off the hook.


4 posted on 11/16/2009 9:51:08 AM PST by cripplecreek (Seniors, the new shovel ready project under socialized medicine.)
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To: ohioman

5 posted on 11/16/2009 9:51:26 AM PST by Scythian
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To: BGHater

I'm thinking .375 H&H as the minimum...

6 posted on 11/16/2009 9:52:06 AM PST by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: BGHater
Initial ideas ranged from the Biblical flood described by Genesis,

Missed the boat?

7 posted on 11/16/2009 9:52:37 AM PST by Doomonyou (Let them eat Lead. Bonus tag line: FAIL 246, Obama 0)
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To: BGHater
Photobucket

I don't think a .410 slug is gonna do much to that fella

8 posted on 11/16/2009 9:54:11 AM PST by digger48
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To: BGHater
Females became attracted to and mated with males with ever larger antlers,

Thus the beginning of the term "horney"........

9 posted on 11/16/2009 9:54:26 AM PST by Hot Tabasco
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To: BGHater; tx_eggman

So... wait.

It was warmer, which the giant deer liked, then it got colder, but then man started driving cars and now it got warmer again, just before it will get colder again, despite our continued driving.

De deer cain’t hold dey smoke. Dat’s what it is!


10 posted on 11/16/2009 9:58:09 AM PST by SpinnerWebb (mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves)
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To: Joe 6-pack
Photobucket
11 posted on 11/16/2009 9:58:43 AM PST by digger48
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To: digger48

Very nice! Is that yours?


12 posted on 11/16/2009 9:59:39 AM PST by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: BGHater
Yet why this giant animal, which had massive antlers spanning 3.6m, suddenly went extinct some 10,600 years ago has remained a mystery. Now a study of its teeth is producing tantalising answers, suggesting the deer couldn't cope with climate change.

This type of lifestyle is NOT sustainable. It is KILLING the planet and has been for thousands and thousands of years!!!

13 posted on 11/16/2009 10:00:04 AM PST by a fool in paradise (I refuse to "reduce my carbon footprint" all while Lenin remains in an airconditioned shrine)
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To: BGHater

My money is extinction induced by either a large meteor strike or volcanic activity.


14 posted on 11/16/2009 10:00:35 AM PST by Virginia Ridgerunner (Sarah Palin has crossed the Rubicon!)
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner
Polar shift or something of amazing force. During this same time frame, parts of the Sahara was covered with water.
15 posted on 11/16/2009 10:02:43 AM PST by BGHater ("real price of every thing ... is the toil and trouble of acquiring it")
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To: BGHater

One of those bad boys bites your sister and it’s all over.


16 posted on 11/16/2009 10:09:57 AM PST by Tijeras_Slim (Live jubtabulously!)
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To: BGHater; All
"...Females became attracted to and mated with males with ever larger antlers, according to the idea, and eventually the antlers became so unwieldy that the deer became mired in clay soils, where they perished."...

That's ludicrous. Female deer or elk do not "become attracted" to a Buck or Bull because of their "antler size". The males compete (sometimes to the death) by using their antlers, physical size, and sheer strength as weapons to dominate the other males, and keep "their" herd in line. The winner gets to rut - it's that simple.

The females don't "become attracted to" any males in the sense that they suggest. They are simply ready to breed and the males vie for the winner's choice. It's more likely that they just kept breeding with the dominant males, who were dominant by virtue of larger antlers and body size.

Although, there is now evidence (supported by DNA analysis) from Penn. game & fish that proves that Does will accept multiple bucks in one rut, even to the point where multiple birth fawns can have completely different sires. Winning the antler fight doesn't guaranteed monogamy, nor mean that another buck won't sneak in behind his back (hmmmmm, kind of like humans in that regard......).

But to suggest that female deer/elk have the capacity to "select a mate based on the size of its antlers" is preposterous. Oh, and the "their antlers got so big that their feet got stuck... so they all died off" is pretty dumb too.

Impressive rack though. Imagine the "trophy fees" on that thing.

17 posted on 11/16/2009 10:16:32 AM PST by conservativeharleyguy (Democrats: Over 60 million fooled daily!)
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To: BGHater

I think it was because the English deer took all the Irish deer’s food and didn’t leave them enough to survive on.


18 posted on 11/16/2009 10:22:48 AM PST by Tanniker Smith (Obi-Wan Palin: Strike her down and she shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.)
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To: BGHater
Females became attracted to and mated with males with ever larger antlers... size does matter. lol
19 posted on 11/16/2009 10:22:48 AM PST by ricks_place
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To: conservativeharleyguy

‘Oh, and the “their antlers got so big that their feet got stuck... so they all died off” is pretty dumb too.’

Quick, better tell that to the moose in Maine and Alaska.


20 posted on 11/16/2009 10:25:40 AM PST by BGHater ("real price of every thing ... is the toil and trouble of acquiring it")
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To: BGHater
"...Quick, better tell that to the moose in Maine and Alaska..."

Yea. And Montana, and Washington, and Idaho, and Wyoming, and Colorado, and Vermont, and Michigan, and Minnesota, and Wisconsin, and ....... Hell, there was even one in the middle of town in Taos, New Mexico a couple of years ago.

That muddy soil sure slows their reproduction down, doesn't it?

21 posted on 11/16/2009 10:38:09 AM PST by conservativeharleyguy (Democrats: Over 60 million fooled daily!)
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To: BGHater

Wonder how the timing of the extinction coincides with the migration of the evil humans over the land bridge.


22 posted on 11/16/2009 10:43:17 AM PST by crusty old prospector
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To: Joe 6-pack

Naw, but my unc builds big bore bolt-action rifles. Has a few of his own style cartridges.

From .416 up to, and including a .700 Nitro Express. just kept getting bigger over the last 40 years.

last I saw him, he’s talking of a .800 Nitro


23 posted on 11/16/2009 10:56:39 AM PST by digger48
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To: BGHater

Earth’s climate has fluctuated drastically many times, with no help from man. Solar activity, volcanoes, etc. That is why I think our impact on the environment is minimal.


24 posted on 11/16/2009 3:03:56 PM PST by TexasRepublic (Socialism is a parasite that kills the host)
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Ten Extinct Beasts That Could Walk The Earth Again
News Scientist | 1/07/2009 | Staff Writers
Posted on 01/09/2009 10:20:15 AM PST by ex-Texan
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2161690/posts

Immigrants From The Other Side (Clovis Is Solutrean?)
CSFA | 11-3-2003 | Dennis Sanford
Posted on 11/02/2003 4:11:21 PM PST by blam
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1013315/posts

also

http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/1875557/posts?page=31#31


25 posted on 11/16/2009 6:00:01 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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The Cycle of Cosmic Catastrophes: Flood, Fire, and Famine in the History of Civilization The Cycle of Cosmic Catastrophes:
Flood, Fire, and Famine
in the History of Civilization

by Richard Firestone,
Allen West, and
Simon Warwick-Smith


26 posted on 11/16/2009 6:00:54 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: 75thOVI; aimhigh; Alice in Wonderland; AndrewC; aragorn; aristotleman; Avoiding_Sulla; BBell; ...
Thanks BGHater.
 
Catastrophism
 
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27 posted on 11/16/2009 6:02:21 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: digger48

28 posted on 11/16/2009 6:19:36 PM PST by LiberConservative ("Sarah Palin irritates all the right people." -Dennis Miller)
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To: BGHater; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; ...

· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic · subscribe ·

 
Gods
Graves
Glyphs
Thanks BGHater.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

·Dogpile · Archaeologica · ArchaeoBlog · Archaeology · Biblical Archaeology Society ·
· Discover · Nat Geographic · Texas AM Anthro News · Yahoo Anthro & Archaeo · Google ·
· The Archaeology Channel · Excerpt, or Link only? · cgk's list of ping lists ·


29 posted on 11/16/2009 6:37:27 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: conservativeharleyguy
Hormonal reflection. The more hormones produced, the bigger the antlers, the more aggressive the male, wins more fights, mates with more does, makes more fawns.

But you are correct that the large antlers would not make the does line up. Though,the size might frighten other males away.

30 posted on 11/16/2009 6:48:25 PM PST by Battle Axe (Repent, for the coming of the Lord is nigh.)
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To: digger48

I draw the line at any caliber which will detach my retinas.


31 posted on 11/16/2009 7:02:59 PM PST by null and void (We are now in day 299 of our national holiday from reality. - 0bama really isn't one of US.)
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To: BGHater

We was hungry, so we ate them deer. Yes we did.


32 posted on 11/16/2009 7:11:25 PM PST by coconutt2000 (NO MORE PEACE FOR OIL!!! DOWN WITH TYRANTS, TERRORISTS, AND TIMIDCRATS!!!! (3-T's For World Peace))
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To: BGHater; SunkenCiv
Climate change sounds plausible to me. This was around the end of the Younger Dryas, a nasty little event.
33 posted on 11/17/2009 4:48:35 PM PST by colorado tanker (What's it all about, Barrrrry? Is it just for the power, you live?)
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To: colorado tanker

Brrrrr.


34 posted on 11/17/2009 5:26:02 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: BGHater

The female deer were attracted to males with bigger antlers?

I am sorry I don’t think female deer think like that.

The bigger antlered males could more easily fight off the males with smaller antlers. That sounds more like it.

Who are these people who think this up?


35 posted on 11/17/2009 5:32:45 PM PST by Ditter
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To: conservativeharleyguy
I came to the same conclusion about the preposterous notion that the females like big racks. Thinking about the big antlers getting stuck in the mud, I can see that happening when the deer put his head down to graze. That might be possible.
36 posted on 11/17/2009 5:39:57 PM PST by Ditter
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