Farah calls Newsweek on 'lie'

World Net Daily ^ | February 15, 2010 | Joseph Farah

[aruanan]

You claim to have been born on December 29, 1956, Were you 4 years old when you were sent off to kindergarten? Did you enter the 1st grade at 5?

Back then about 1/3 of the kids who started kindergarten were not yet 5. I started kindergarten at age 4. My birthday was in the latter part of November. The cut-off was a birthday after the first of the year.

[fireman15]

Thank you for chiming in. I was from “back then” as well. I was 5 when I entered kindergarten, I turned 6 in November. In my school we didn’t have any 4 year olds in kindergarten. My wife’s parents had to get a waiver signed by their doctor in order for her to enter kindergarten. She turned 5 in August. When our kids went to kindergarten they had to be tested if they turned 5 after June.

Different states have different requirements but I would be very interested where you get the statistic that “about 1/3 of the kids” entered kindergarten when they were 4 in 1961.

[aruanan]

Different states have different requirements but I would be very interested where you get the statistic that “about 1/3 of the kids” entered kindergarten when they were 4 in 1961.

I didn't say 1961. In Illinois it was somewhere in the very late 1950's that the 5th year birthdate was moved to a date in November of the school year of kindergarten enrollment. I remember when it was moved to November sometime after I was already in school. Then it was changed to near the beginning of the school year. Now it's before the beginning of the school year.

How I got to the statistic was

1. if the cut-off birthday for entering kindergarten was turning 5 year by, roughly, the midpoint of the school year in which the child started kindergarten, sometime in January,

2. if births are more or less distributed evenly throughout the calendar year,

3. if most parents put their kids into kindergarten the first year they were eligible, and

4. if there are 4 months of school from September through December,

5. then there were kids whose 5th birthday occurred after the start of school in September and before the midpoint of the school year, a period of about four months. So 4/12 = 1/3.

I have exceedingly clear memories of this because I was started when I was four with a birthdate near the end of November. I held out until shortly after Christmas, after which my mom pulled me out and told the school I was just too young. I waited until the next fall and started kindergarten for the second time. The next fall, when I started first grade, was when my sister, who was born 18 months after me, started kindergarten at five years of age, having been born in May.

[fireman15]

Sorry, I didn't mean to put words in your mouth, 1961 was the year that EnderWiggins and my wife entered kindergarten. I was not aware previous to the discussion here that in other areas of the country so many kids started Kindergarten so early. Thank you for the explanation.

Although I appreciate your reasoning I would point out is that this is not a straight mathematical problem. We were given the option with our kids as to whether they wanted to send our children off to Kindergarten at an early age or wait till the next year. Many parents decide that it is in their children's best interest to delay the start of their school career. This likely tends to skew the average toward later admissions even in the early 60s.

Personally I couldn't care less about when EnderWiggins started Kindergarten. He has made inaccurate statements here and in other threads. Mostly he refuses to verify his claims. However he chose to use his personal experiences to verify his claim that no one knows whether Obama could have received a military security clearance. Some of his personal experiences run counter to mine. And a lot of what he has claimed also runs counter to information that is easily verifiable. I personally know of examples where persons far more straight laced than Obama ran into difficulties and were denied.

EnderWiggins has been very active on the eligibility threads. It is helpful to have alternative viewpoints in the forums. Unfortunately he tends to post the same old Obama talking points. In most cases people responding to his attacks have not bothered to try and get him to back up his claims with verifiable information. Which to me this gets right to the heart of the eligibility issue. What is lacking most in what little documentation we have on Obama is verifiable information. I firmly believe that we would have already seen a legitimate looking forgery of a long form birth certificate from the Obama administration except for one thing... a document with verifiable information on it will be checked into. When some small detail does not check out then the credibility of the entire document starts to crumble.

As tedious as it is, that is how we ended up in this kindergarten discussion. I am just trying to follow up on all the info he provided for us when he claimed to have expert knowledge. In my job I am called as a witness on occassion and the lawyers often do everything they can to destroy my credibility.

Most people should be able to find for themselves that EnderWiggin’s statements about the FBI granting Security Clearances for the military is just plain false on several levels. And I think that most people understand also that the only leg he has to stand on about not knowing whether Obama could get a Military Security Clearance is that if someone wasn't doing their job that he might have been able to slip through the cracks. This to me is just so typical of the Obama talking point eligibility arguments. It is always vaguely reminiscent of arguing with a teenager. “So and so did this or got away with that, so I should be able to also.”

[aruanan]

It is always vaguely reminiscent of arguing with a teenager. “So and so did this or got away with that, so I should be able to also.”

Ha ha ha. Oh, yeah. I'm familiar with that. Where we were in Illinois I believe kindergarten was optional also. I still remember that particular morning in January trying to lie as flat as I could under my covers, thinking that if I counted to 100 as many times as I could, I would go undetected and not get sent to school, and it appeared to have worked, but I was just getting liberated for the rest of the year.

[fireman15]

That is a very cute story. I don’t think that kindergarten was optional in Washington State where my wife and I grew up, but I don’t know for sure. I am one of those strange kids that loved going to school. We lived on a small farm so until I started going to school I didn’t have a lot of other kids to play with. My mom worked so I enjoyed the attention I got from the teachers and I also loved school lunches.

[EnderWiggins]

Oh... sorry I missed this. How droll....

As we have established, you yourself stumbled upon the proof that West Point allows cadets to matriculate who are 17 years and one week old. I was six months older than that, and yes that would have graduated me at 21 years of age and sent me to my first assignment (the nuke one) while still 21.

With that astounding mystery solved... one can only wonder what in my posts have inspired the frothing level of analysis you seem to believe that I deserve. I must have really shaken you up to deserve it. I'm pretty happy with that, actually. My arguments must be strong ones.

"You claim to have been born on December 29, 1956, Were you 4 years old when you were sent off to kindergarten? Did you enter the 1st grade at 5?"

Yes to both.

"I posted the age requirements to apply for West Point and have never claimed that you could not have graduated when you said you did. I am just curious why you have tried to argue so hard you were the average age of a West Point graduate and have changed your story several times. You do a lot of wiggling in your posts EnderWiggins."

Okay... okay... you have stoned me to death with popcorn, beaten me into submission with al dente fettuccine. You have wrung from me the horrible admission that I was one of the younger guys in my class. What evil and nefarious purpose would have caused me to build this vast conspiracy of subterfuge to make myself look completely ordinary?

Ahhh, I must have forgotten. Humility is (among Birthers) is a sure sign of evil intent.

My class graduated some 953 people (depending on whether you count the guys that graduated a few months later for academic reasons). Exactly 243 of us were younger than 22, so while younger than most I was still hardly exceptional. And if the average age actually was closer to 22 than 21... that is hardly a great distinction given the jobs of great responsibility all these men went on to immediately perform.

You win you win. The average age of my graduating class was closer to 18 than to 17.

Therefore, Obama is not a natural born citizen. [end sarcasm]

[fireman15]

EnderWiggins, I already admitted to others in the thread that I may have been barking up the wrong tree on your age. The thing that is curious to me however is that you have now changed your tune on this four different times. To me that seems a little odd. Until others came forward here... you did not appear to be willing to admit that you started kindergarten at age 4. There are currently no states which allow a child who will not turn 5 until December 29 to enter kindergarten.

Of course this is not nearly as odd as your repeated claims that the FBI grants almost all military security clearances and numerous other statements you have made which are easily disproved as well. If I could give a little advice to someone who argues like a teenager and has no real allegiance to the truth... if you stuck a little closer to the Obama talking points and didn't allow others to draw you off on a tangent you would be more convincing.

I for one appreciate having a few individuals such as yourself on the forum. Without you and your associates many of these threads would get a few looks and a couple dozen comments and then be forgotten. With your assistance we are keeping the interest in these eligibility threads going for weeks. So thank you.

You still haven't made any attempt to give a valid reason why the person occupying the most powerful position in the world should not be required to provide the verifiable documentation that so far Obama has refused to. Basically all you have said thus far is that he shouldn't have to because he might be able to get away with it, and also that other people might have been able to get away with it. I can remember similar arguments with our children when they were teenagers. They didn't fly even for the trivial issues that teenagers place so much importance in. In this case we are talking about a man who has within his powers to destroy our country and the rest of the world. I know what to expect from you... several paragraphs of pastes from English common law from several hundred years ago and some more blather about them not having birth certificates way back when.

“The issue over Obama’s birth certificate is not about President Obama’s citizenship. It is about his honesty and his promise to be the most transparent president ever. Releasing his birth certificate and other personal records that presidents have traditionally released to the public would go a long way toward bolstering those claims.”

1. George Washington — Address: George Washington Birthplace National Monument; Rural Route 1; Box 717; Washington's Birthplace, Va. 22443

2. John Adams — Address: 133 Franklin St.; Quincy, Mass. 02669

3.Thomas Jefferson — Address: U.S. 250; 3 miles east of Charlottesville, Va.

4. James Madison — Address: Monroe Hall; Virginia SR 205; Westmoreland County near Colonial Beach, Va. 22443

5.James Monroe — Address: Monroe Hall; Virginia SR 205; Westmoreland County near Colonial Beach, Va. 22443

6.John Quincy Adams — Address: 141 Franklin St.; Quincy, Mass. 02169

7.Andrew Jackson — Address: 14 miles south of Rock Hill on South Carolina State Route 5. The Park is on Route 1. Address:196 Andrew Jackson Park Road; Lancaster, S.C. 29720

8.Martin Van Buren — Address: 46 Hudson St.; Kinderhook, New York 12106

9.William Henry Harrison — Address: 12602 Harrison Landing Road; Charles City, Va. 23030

10. John Tyler — Address: John Tyler Memorial Highway; Charles City, Va. 23030

11. James Polk — Address: Box 475; Pineville, N.C. 28134

12. Zachary Taylor — Address: Highway 33; 5 miles west of Gordonsville, Va., and just over 20 miles from Charlottesville, Va.

13. Millard Fillmore — Address: Millard Fillmore Birthplace; Locke, N.Y. 13092

14. Franklin Pierce — Address: The Pierce Homestead; Routes 9 and 31; Hillsboro, N.H. 03244

15. James Buchanan — Address: Buchanan Historic Site; Mercersburg, Pa. 17236

16. Abraham Lincoln — Address: Sinking Spring Farm; 2995 Lincoln Farm Road; Hodgenville, Ky. 42748

17. Andrew Johnson — Address: Mordecai Historic Park; Wake Forest Road; Raleigh, N.C. 27601

18. Ulysses Grant — Address: Grant's Birthplace; Routes 52E and 322; Point Pleasant, Ohio 45143

19. Rutherford Hayes — Address: Rutherford B. Hayes Birthplace; East William Street; Delaware, Ohio 43015

20. James Garfield — Address: James A. Garfield Birthplace; 4350 S.O.M Center Road; Moreland Hills (now Chagrin Falls); Cuyahoga County, Ohio 44022

21. Chester Arthur — Address: Chester A. Arthur State Historic Site; Route 36; Fairfield, Vt. 05455

22. Grover Cleveland — Address: Grover Cleveland Birthplace State Historic Site; 207 Bloomfield Avenue; Caldwell, N.J. 07006

23. Benjamin Harrison — Address: Benjamin Harrison Birthplace; William Henry Harrison Home; Symmes and Washington Avenues; North Bend, Ohio 45052

24. Grover Cleveland — Address: Grover Cleveland Birthplace State Historic Site; 207 Bloomfield Avenue; Caldwell, N.J. 07006

25. William McKinley — Address: William McKinley Birthplace; 36 S. Main St.; Niles, Ohio 44446

26. Theodore Roosevelt — Address: Theodore Roosevelt Birthplace National Historic Site; 28 East 20th St.; New York, N.Y. 10003

27. William Taft — Address: 2038 Auburn Ave., Cincinnati, Ohio 45219

28. Woodrow Wilson — Address: 18-24 Coalter Street, Staunton, Va. 24401

29. Warren Harding — Address: Highways 97 and 288, Blooming Grove, Ohio 44878

30. Calvin Coolidge — Address: P.O. Box 247, Plymouth, Vermont 05056

31. Herbert Hoover — Address: West Branch, Iowa 52538

32. Franklin Roosevelt — Address: 519 Albany Post Road, Hyde Park, N.Y. 12538

33. Harry Truman — Address: 1009 Truman Ave., Lamar, Mo. 64759

34. Dwight Eisenhower — Address: 208 East Day St., Denison, Texas 75020

35. John Kennedy — Address: 83 Beals St., Brookline, Mass. 02146

36. Lyndon Johnson — Address: Box 329 Johnson City, Texas 78636

37. Richard Nixon — Address: 18001 Yorba Linda Blvd., Yorba Linda, Calif. 92686

38. Gerald Ford — Address: 3202 Woolworth Ave, Omaha, Neb. 68103

39. James Carter — Address: 300 North Bond St., Plains, Ga. 31780

40. Ronald Reagan — Address: 119 S. Main St., Tampico, Ill. 61283

41. George H.W. Bush — Address: 173 Adams St, Milton, Mass. 02187

42. Bill Clinton — Address: Bill Clinton was born at the Julia Chester Hospital in Hope, Ark. The hospital has been demolished.

43. George W. Bush — Address: George W. was born to Barbara and George Bush in what was then Grace-New Haven Community Hospital and is now Yale-New Haven Hospital.

44. Barack Obama — Address: Unknown.

http://www.newsmax.com/Ruddy/Obama-birth-certificate/2009/12/12/id/341849

[EnderWiggins]

To me that seems a little odd. Until others came forward here... you did not appear to be willing to admit that you started kindergarten at age 4. There are currently no states which allow a child who will not turn 5 until December 29 to enter kindergarten.

So it is a very good thing that I am not 4 years old trying to enter Kindergarten today. Your brilliant detective work on that issue continues to dazzle us all.

"Of course this is not nearly as odd as your repeated claims that the FBI grants almost all military security clearances and numerous other statements you have made which are easily disproved as well."

And yet, the only thing you have actually managed to disprove is that I am not exceptional. You forced me through brilliant detective work to finally begrudgingly confess that yeah, I'm actually much more amazing than I wanted to admit after all. How's that working out for you?

"You still haven't made any attempt to give a valid reason why the person occupying the most powerful position in the world should not be required to provide the verifiable documentation that so far Obama has refused to."

To who? You? Are you serious?

You have framed the question poorly, IMHO. It would be more meaningful had you asserted that:

"You still haven't made any attempt to give a valid reason why the person occupying the most powerful position in the world should not be required to jump through hoops to satisfy a fringe group of conspiracy theorists who would never vote for him anyway."

Seems to me, the answer to that is hardly a mystery.



Now... I love your list of Presidential Birthplaces. I make two observations:

First, it is false that Obama's birthplace is unknown. It is known based on exactly as much documentation as exists for all but at most 8 of the other President on that list.

Second, I'm curious about exactly how you know any of those other Presidents were born where your list says?

Have you seen their long form birth certificates?

[fireman15]

EnderWiggins, I am starting to become a little concerned for you. You posted only around fifty times today which came to just twenty five printed pages for me to add to your file. You have done so much more on many of the other days in the month since you first joined the Free Republic. This latest post to me was very rambling and certainly not of the same quality of many of your other biting posts.

You will have to forgive me. When it comes to detective work... I am more of a Columbo than a Jessica Fletcher. (In case you are typing from an outsourced troll office in India, those are both detectives from popular American television shows. You should be able to look them up on the Internet.) Toward the end of the show Columbo frequently said, “One thing was bothering me.” I was hoping that we could drop this kindergarten thing, but it still bothers me. Let me tell you why...

My wife was born in August of 1956. You say you were born on December 29, 1956 several months after her. If you had been born just three days later, you wouldn't have been allowed to start Kindergarten in any state in the country in 1961. The vast majority of parents in 1961 would have chosen to not start you in Kindergarten until the following September. Yet when I congratulated you for graduating from West Point at such a young age... you first claimed that most of your classmates were the same age as you. My wife was always acutely aware that the other kids were older than her. I would think that you who were several months younger than she, and having many classmates a year or more older than you and being a boy... would be far more aware than her that you were one of the youngest kids in all of your classes. It simply strains believability that given the age advantages your school mates had over you in size, maturity, sporting events etc. that this would not have been something that your posts would have acknowledged immediately.

You must be aware that anyone who is a member of the West Point Association of Graduates can search the Register of Graduates. Organized by class year, this cumulative register provides birth date, state of birth, a brief summary of assignments, retirement date, rank, occupation and mailing address. There is also an indication, where appropriate, if an individual is a descendant or ancestor of another graduate. I asked a friend who is also a graduate to search the database. He has been working on it. So how many persons graduating in the class of 1978 do you suppose he found were born after December 29, 1956 and would be younger than you? You are an alumni right? Why don't you tell us. Why don't you also tell us how many people he found in the class of 1978 who were born on December 29, 1956. “One thing was bothering me.”

[fireman15]

Regarding the rest of your rambling post:

Your facetious claim, “First, it is false that Obama’s birthplace is unknown. It is known based on exactly as much documentation as exists for all but at most 8 of the other President on that list.”, is just plain silly.

“Of 43 men who have served as president, only Zachary Taylor and Andrew Jackson, both born on the frontier, have disputed birth sites. All others have some commemoration for their place of birth — except Obama.” from:

http://www.newsmax.com/Ruddy/Obama-birth-certificate/2009/12/12/id/341849

There are other ways of verifying where a person was born other than providing their long form birth certificate. Unfortunately, unlike the other presidents Obama has been unwilling or unable to provide verifiable information about his birth or even the location of his birth. No, Obama’s COLB does not provide verifiable information. If you think it does, please explain.

If you know where Obama was born, why don't you tell the rest of us? If you can't tell us the hospital or address where he was born then you don't know. Two different hospitals have been claimed by Obama or his representatives or family members. First it was claimed that Obama was born at The Queen's Medical Center. Then for six months Kapi’olani Medical Center for Women and Children claimed that he was born there. then they mysteriously dropped the claim

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=103633

http://www.earthfrisk.com/blog/?p=135

Then you go onto claim that persons who believe Obama should provide the documentation of his life are a “fringe group of conspiracy theorists who would never vote for him anyway.”

I guess that you haven't looked over too many of the polls on this. From Polls this summer, “Tom Jensen of Public Policy Polling just reported on Twitter that a new poll his firm conducted finds that only 32% of Virginia Republicans think Obama was born in the US, while 41% think he was not and 27% are not sure. These numbers are even worse than the national results from the Daily Kos/Research 2000 poll released on Friday, which found that 28% of Republicans think Obama is not a citizen and 30% are not sure.”

http://www.brendan-nyhan.com/blog/2009/08/va-poll-backs-kos-result-on-obama-birth.html

That doesn't sound like a fringe group to me. The numbers have only gotten worse since that time; I just do not have time to list all of the links.

[fireman15]

I will repeat, that I do not claim to know where Obama was born. I don't claim that there has been a conspiracy. All I know is that the person occupying the most powerful office in the world appears to be covering something up. This is a dangerous situation which undermines the confidence that persons worldwide have in Obama’s ability to lead. This is a travesty.

[EnderWiggins]

“Of 43 men who have served as president, only Zachary Taylor and Andrew Jackson, both born on the frontier, have disputed birth sites. All others have some commemoration for their place of birth — except Obama.”

Actually, we know this is not true, as Chester Arthur's birthplace was disputed while he was still alive and is still disputed today. But that is neither here nor there.

How many of them possess documentation of that birth comparable to Obama's COLB? How many of their birth certificates have you seen? Long form or otherwise?

"Unfortunately, unlike the other presidents Obama has been unwilling or unable to provide verifiable information about his birth or even the location of his birth. No, Obama’s COLB does not provide verifiable information. If you think it does, please explain."

You are being simply disingenuous when you assert that any of these previous president "provided" anything regarding their birthplaces. Most of these "commemorations" were not even established until after they were dead.

As to the COLB, under the Federal Rules of Evidence and the "full faith and credit" clause of the US Constitution a document that requires no "extrinsic validation" whatsoever... as long as it meets the State Department regulations for proof of citizenship at birth. And it meets that standard perfectly.

"If you know where Obama was born, why don't you tell the rest of us? If you can't tell us the hospital or address where he was born then you don't know. Two different hospitals have been claimed by Obama or his representatives or family members. First it was claimed that Obama was born at The Queen's Medical Center. Then for six months Kapi’olani Medical Center for Women and Children claimed that he was born there. then they mysteriously dropped the claim"

No one in an actual position to know has ever declared that Obama was born anyplace other than Kapiolani Medical Center. No Obama family member has ever declared Queens as his place of birth, and neither has Queens hospital itself. And while Kapiolani did consider dropping the claim (used on their website and in fund raising fliers) when Birthers accused them of violating HIPAA, they later came back and reasserted its authenticity, as covered by WND.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php/index.php/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=104146

There is no mystery here. He was born at Kapiolani. The hospital has said so, he has said so, and his sister has said so. Nobody in a position to contradict them has ever done so.

[fireman15]

Congratulations EnderWiggins, I do think you are doing better at sticking with your talking points this morning. Although it is a little suprising to me that you are posting links to WorldNet Daily, probably the leading "Birther" source of information.

No Obama family member has ever declared Queens as his place of birth, and neither has Queens hospital itself.

Queens was the hospital originally claimed by the Obama camapaign, additionally there are numerous sources still claiming that Obama was born at Queens.

http://genealogy.about.com/od/aframertrees/p/barack_obama.htm"

One would think that just the fact that a huge percentage of the electorate are concerned over this issue alone... would be enough to convince Obama that his promised "most transperant administation in history" should clear it all up by releasing verifiable information. The real question as I repeat once again is what is all the fuss about? Why will Obama not silence his critics by just releasing the documents?

[EnderWiggins]

"Although it is a little suprising to me that you are posting links to WorldNet Daily, probably the leading "Birther" source of information."

Why would that surprise you? Why would I not use a source that even you coulrd love if it makes my point for me?

"Queens was the hospital originally claimed by the Obama camapaign, additionally there are numerous sources still claiming that Obama was born at Queens."

Your first statement there is an absolute falsehood, and surprises me only because it is a brand new Birther claim and I thought I had already heard them all. If you can point to a single Obama campaign source that made such a claim, I'd love to see it.

No one has ever claimed that there were not "sources" claiming he was born at Queens. Most appear to be simple cutting and pasting from an original wrong Wikipedia entry. Not one of them can be traced back to somebody in an actual position to know.

It remains a simple truth that the only hospital that has ever been claimed by people in a position to know has been Kapiolani. There is no other.

"Why will Obama not silence his critics by just releasing the documents?"

As Napoleon said, "Never interrupt your opponent when he is making a mistake."

[fireman15]

Oh EnderWiggins I am sorry, it was not Obama’s campaign who said he was born at Queens Medical Center; it was Obama himself in an interview that appeared November 4, 2008. Sometime after the Kapi’olani Medical Center claims started surfacing the UPI article was “corrected”. But don't worry archived versions of the original interview still exist. It was also Obama’s sister Maya who claimed in a November 2004 article that appeared in the Rainbow Newsletter. Queens was definately the hospital of consensus before the Kapi’olani thing surfaced. I am certainly not the first one to have brought this up.

It is very surprising to me that an expert such as you was not aware of this previously. You are the one being disingenuous here. The whole situation is vaguely reminiscent of your posts; when one someone points out something that is untrue you just change your tack. It seems likely when it became worrisome about whether the records at Queens had been scoured and nothing was found indicating Obama was born there, an ally may have been found at Kapi’olani.

“Obama described his birth at Queen’s Medical Center in Hawaii Aug. 4, 1961, to a young white woman from Kansas and a father of Luo ethnicity from Nyanza Province in Kenya, as an all-American story transcending orthodox racial stereotypes and experience.”

http://obambi.wordpress.com/2009/01/02/was-the-idiot-born-at-queen%E2%80%99s-medical-center-or-kapi%E2%80%99olani-medical-center/

“In a November 2004 interview with the Rainbow Newsletter, Maya told reporters her half-brother Sen. Barack Obama was born on Aug. 4, 1961, at Queens Medical Center in Honolulu; then in February 2008, Maya told reporters for the Honolulu Star-Bulletin that Obama was at the Kapiolani Medical Center for Women and Children.”

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=79900

“The decision by the White House to side with the contention that Obama was born at Kapi’olani instead of Queens resulted in the scrubbing of websites that previously identified Queens as the hospital of the president's birth.”

http://tribes.tribe.net/politicaljunkies/thread/74306144-7183-431f-91e4-e40edc7ae529

Anyone who cares to look can find numerous other claims about Obama being born at Queens. And yes you are correct Wikipedia also originally listed Queens as Obama’s place of birth. There is absolutely nothing new about this.

[EnderWiggins]

"Oh EnderWiggins I am sorry, it was not Obama’s campaign who said he was born at Queens Medical Center; it was Obama himself in an interview that appeared November 4, 2008."

Wrong again, Ranger. No such interview ever existed. The first (and only) time Obama was ever recorded to have publicly mentioned his hospital of birth was the letter he wrote to Kapiolani in celebration of their centennial.

The "interview" of which you speak is not an interview at all. It is an article within which the reporter reflects back on Obama's February 2007 announcement of his candidacy in Springfield, IL and also his book The Audacity of Hope.

In the text of his/her report, the reporter states that Obama was born at Queens, but nowhere in the article does Obama say that. Neither did he say that in the February 2007 speech (the complete text of which can be found on-line) nor anywhere in his book.

In short... you have pointed us to where a reporter reported wrong and it was later corrected. But you have shown us nowhere that Obama ever said he was born at Queens.

"But don't worry archived versions of the original interview still exist."

Yes they do. And Nowhere in them is Obama quoted as saying he was born at Queens hospital.

" It was also Obama’s sister Maya who claimed in a November 2004 article that appeared in the Rainbow Newsletter. Queens was definately the hospital of consensus before the Kapi’olani thing surfaced. I am certainly not the first one to have brought this up."

And again, you are simply in error. Once again, a reporter (in this case a high school kid) reported that Obama was born at Queens, but nowhere in the article can Maya be found saying that. Just as with her brother, the only actual quotations of Maya commenting on her brother's hospital of birth claim Kapiolani, not Queens.

And by the way, people have contacted both those reporters, and both have said they got that information from Wikipedia. And yes, at that time Wikipedia had the wrong hospital up.

So... of course you didn't make it up. There were at least three or four different publications that got the hospital wrong. But the simple fact remains that nobody in the actual position to know has ever claimed Obama was born anywhere other than Kapiolani.

And that includes Obama, his sister and the Hospital itself.

"Obama described his birth at Queen’s Medical Center in Hawaii Aug. 4, 1961, to a young white woman from Kansas and a father of Luo ethnicity from Nyanza Province in Kenya, as an all-American story transcending orthodox racial stereotypes and experience.”

Where did he describe that? The reporter tells you where... in his book "The Audacity of Hope." The problem is that if you actually go to the book, you will look in futility for that reference to Queens Hospital. You will certainly find where he "described his birth in Hawaii Aug. 4, 1961, to a young white woman from Kansas and a father of Luo ethnicity from Nyanza Province in Kenya, as an all-American story transcending orthodox racial stereotypes and experience." The reference to Queens though? That was added by the reporter. It's not in the book.

"In a November 2004 interview with the Rainbow Newsletter, Maya told reporters her half-brother Sen. Barack Obama was born on Aug. 4, 1961, at Queens Medical Center in Honolulu; then in February 2008, Maya told reporters for the Honolulu Star-Bulletin that Obama was at the Kapiolani Medical Center for Women and Children.”

The first statement there is a lie. Maya told the student reporter, Bennett Guir, nothing of the sort. Bennet did write it, but he never claims Maya said it, and it can be found nowhere in any of her quotes in the article.

The second, however is absolutely true, and it contains an actual quotation from her, not just in a reporter's paraphrase, gloss or filler.

"The decision by the White House to side with the contention that Obama was born at Kapi’olani instead of Queens resulted in the scrubbing of websites that previously identified Queens as the hospital of the president's birth.”

Yes. That is what happens when real journalists discover that they made an error. They correct it.