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I Married a Neanderthal
JSOnline vis WAPO ^ | April 30, 2007 | Marc Kaufman

Posted on 05/01/2007 6:30:29 PM PDT by Diana in Wisconsin

(Scientist says modern humans, earlier species found camaraderie, and sometimes a mate, in each other)

Researchers have long debated what happened when the indigenous Neanderthals of Europe met "modern humans" arriving from Africa starting some 40,000 years ago. The result was the disappearance of the Neanderthals, but what happened during the roughly 10,000 years that the two human species shared a land?

A new review of the fossil record from that period has come up with a provocative conclusion: The two groups saw each other as kindred spirits and, when conditions were right, they mated.

How often this happened will never be known, but paleoanthropologist Erik Trinkaus says it probably occurred more often than is generally imagined.

In his latest work, published last week in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, Trinkaus, of Washington University in St. Louis, analyzed prehistoric fossil remains from parts of Europe. He concluded that a significant number have attributes associated with both Neanderthals and the modern humans who replaced them.

"Given the data we now have, it would be highly improbable to argue there is no Neanderthal contribution to the early European population that came out of Africa," Trinkaus said. "I believe there was continuous breeding between the two for some period of time. Both groups would seem to us dirty and smelly but, cleaned up, we would understand both to be human. There's good reason to think that they did as well."

The conclusion, one of the strongest to date in this debate, remains controversial, and it has potentially broad implications. It suggests, for instance, that humans today still should have some Neanderthal genes. It also means that the unanswered question of why the Neanderthals died out is even more puzzling, because under this scenario they were quite capable of living successfully alongside the more modern newcomers.

But Trinkaus says the fossil record is the best information available, and it increasingly points to an "admixture" theory - that Neanderthals who had lived in Europe for about 400,000 years shared the land and, to some extent, their genes with the migrants from the south who began arriving 40,000 years ago.

Theory questioned

As with all theories regarding the Neanderthals, there are problems with the one that Trinkaus and others are advancing. So far, analysis of modern humans' DNA has turned up no identifiable Neanderthal genetic material. Instead, it points to a common East African male ancestor from about 100,000 years ago and a common East African female from 170,000 years ago. Because the sampling remains limited, evolutionary geneticists generally do not say their findings settle the matter, though an ongoing mapping of the Neanderthal genome by European researchers may change the equation.

Chris Stringer, a paleontology researcher at the Natural History Museum in London, said the genetic evidence has kept him "on the fence" regarding Trinkaus' theory of more widespread interbreeding. He said Neanderthals and modern humans from Africa would be considered distinct "homo" species, making interbreeding less likely but not impossible. Under stressed conditions, he said, zebras and horses will mate, as will lions and tigers, so related humans might have done the same.

But one genetic trait of modern Europeans makes him doubt there was any major Neanderthal input - the fact that most humans today are genetically ill-adapted to cold weather. Only some native Indian populations, as well as people in the north of Eurasia and aborigines in Australia, who experience deep cold at night, have good genetic defenses to cold.

Because Neanderthals lived in Europe for hundreds of thousands of years, through ice ages and frigid conditions, they would have become genetically suited to such conditions, Stringer said. The fact that Europeans are not, he said, suggests that any Neanderthal contribution to their makeup is limited.


TOPICS: History; Science; Society
KEYWORDS: caveman; godsgravesglyphs
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Target Rich Environment. :)
1 posted on 05/01/2007 6:30:29 PM PDT by Diana in Wisconsin
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To: Diana in Wisconsin

2 posted on 05/01/2007 6:32:50 PM PDT by Diana in Wisconsin (Save The Earth. It's The Only Planet With Chocolate.)
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To: Diana in Wisconsin

“I believe ... there’s good reason to think ..” yeah right.


3 posted on 05/01/2007 6:34:00 PM PDT by Ken522
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To: Diana in Wisconsin

http://cavemenscrib.com/


4 posted on 05/01/2007 6:34:05 PM PDT by digger48
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To: Diana in Wisconsin

Maybe I’m a neanderthal after all. I’ve been told as much!


5 posted on 05/01/2007 6:36:26 PM PDT by James W. Fannin
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To: Diana in Wisconsin

Prior to my retirement it was my pleasure to ride the Washington Metro (subway) every weekday and observe the occupants thereon, and I can tell you that that the Neanderthal genes are alive and well in our midst.


6 posted on 05/01/2007 6:44:25 PM PDT by OldPossum
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To: OldPossum

ROFLMAO! :)


7 posted on 05/01/2007 6:47:20 PM PDT by Diana in Wisconsin (Save The Earth. It's The Only Planet With Chocolate.)
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To: digger48

I love that site. Too clever by half. Wish I had that Caveman’s kitchen. D@mn! :)


8 posted on 05/01/2007 6:48:32 PM PDT by Diana in Wisconsin (Save The Earth. It's The Only Planet With Chocolate.)
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: Diana in Wisconsin

10 posted on 05/01/2007 7:01:32 PM PDT by bmwcyle ( Freep Fox they drop the ball on GOE)
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To: OldPossum; windcliff

LOL!


11 posted on 05/01/2007 7:02:49 PM PDT by stylecouncilor (I'm a loner Dottie; a rebel.)
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To: James W. Fannin

I have been referred to as a “knuckle-dragger” by the ‘educated elite’ upon occasion.

Perhaps they were unknowingly correct!


12 posted on 05/01/2007 7:51:31 PM PDT by Tainan (Talk is cheap. Silence is golden. All I got is brass...lotsa brass.)
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To: Diana in Wisconsin
This has sounded plausible for quite some time, but they would have to find a way of proving that homo sapien was sexually/genetically compatible to breed with neanderthal.
13 posted on 05/01/2007 7:57:24 PM PDT by miliantnutcase
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To: Diana in Wisconsin
Oh pleeasse, everyone knows of the genetic experiments conducted by aliens for eons. Don’t you feel like a lab rat? Sure, I know you do.
14 posted on 05/01/2007 8:22:16 PM PDT by mission9 (Be a citizen worth living for, in a Nation worth dying for...)
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To: Diana in Wisconsin

YEC INTREP


15 posted on 05/01/2007 8:24:12 PM PDT by LiteKeeper (Beware the secularization of America; the Islamization of Eurabia)
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To: SunkenCiv

ggg ping


16 posted on 05/02/2007 6:54:19 AM PDT by Fractal Trader
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a tall glass of the usual, please:
The Neandertal Enigma
by James Shreeve
Frayer's own reading of the record reveals a number of overlooked traits that clearly and specifically link the Neandertals to the Cro-Magnons. One such trait is the shape of the opening of the nerve canal in the lower jaw, a spot where dentists often give a pain-blocking injection. In many Neandertal, the upper portion of the opening is covered by a broad bony ridge, a curious feature also carried by a significant number of Cro-Magnons. But none of the alleged 'ancestors of us all' fossils from Africa have it, and it is extremely rare in modern people outside Europe." [pp 126-127]

17 posted on 05/02/2007 7:15:42 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (I last updated my profile on Saturday, April 28, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Fractal Trader; blam; FairOpinion; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 24Karet; ...
Thanks for the ping, Fractal Trader. I added it to the keyword last night, but ran out of gas and went to bed without actually pinging the list. :')

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

18 posted on 05/02/2007 7:17:08 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (I last updated my profile on Saturday, April 28, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Diana in Wisconsin

Clan of the Cave Bear ;D


19 posted on 05/02/2007 7:26:46 AM PDT by Dustbunny (The BIBLE - Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth)
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To: Diana in Wisconsin

20 posted on 05/02/2007 7:31:05 AM PDT by Daffynition
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To: SunkenCiv

“Both groups would seem to us dirty and smelly but, cleaned up, we would understand both to be human.”

And now every other TV commercial tells men they have to drench themselves with perfume to get women to come anywhere near them.


21 posted on 05/02/2007 7:43:52 AM PDT by Salamander (And don't forget my Dog; fixed and consequent.......)
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To: Diana in Wisconsin

“Because the sampling remains limited, evolutionary geneticists generally do not say their findings settle the matter, though an ongoing mapping of the Neanderthal genome by European researchers may change the equation.”

I don’t think that most people would notice any difference between a shaved, washed, dressed Neanderthal and a modern man other than that the Neaderthal would appear much stronger than average with some “primitive” facial features.

If there was a reason modern man and Neanderthals did not interbreed successully, that fact must be related to some gological and climatological factor, not a purely biological one.


22 posted on 05/02/2007 7:59:30 AM PDT by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts and guns made America great.)
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To: Salamander

I use Nestle’s Quik. Something about the scent of chocolate makes me irresistable.


23 posted on 05/02/2007 8:01:49 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (I last updated my profile on Saturday, April 28, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Diana in Wisconsin
There once was a young man named Dave

Who kept a Neanderthal in a cave....

Nahh, it doesn't quite work.

24 posted on 05/02/2007 8:11:29 AM PDT by DeFault User
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To: SunkenCiv

Ooooooh, yeah......>:-]


25 posted on 05/02/2007 8:12:30 AM PDT by Salamander (And don't forget my Dog; fixed and consequent.......)
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To: Diana in Wisconsin
Homo Sapiens whipped the Neadertal’s collective butts, killed the males, and mated with the females. Whether, or not, offspring resulted may be open to question.

But that they mated is not. Men have been known to mate with ducks, goats, and walruses. How bad can a Neadertal cutie actually be?

26 posted on 05/02/2007 10:46:14 AM PDT by chesley ("Socialism" - The devil made them do it..)
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To: Diana in Wisconsin

The question I have about the theory is that it seemingly ignores the question of why the Neanderthals apparently didn’t mate with homo sapiens females.

If you saw Raquel Welch in 1,000,000 B.C. or read about Ayla in the Clan of the Cave Bear then you’d really wonder about that. Maybe homo sapiens women smelled funny.

(i’m not going there)


27 posted on 05/02/2007 11:34:44 AM PDT by wildbill
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To: Diana in Wisconsin

My husband says, “Us cavemen don’t find that very humorous.” I always laugh at the ones where he’s in the psychiatrist’s office.


28 posted on 05/02/2007 11:37:08 AM PDT by HungarianGypsy
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To: rrc
neanderthals get the bad rap, they were no less human than you or i.....

My Neanderthal is also very intelligent and very cute in an ape-like kind of way.

29 posted on 05/02/2007 11:39:13 AM PDT by HungarianGypsy
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To: James W. Fannin

Hey - I am a PROUD “process neanderthal”. Just ask the program managers in my aerospace company!!! (I work in product certification) ;-P


30 posted on 05/02/2007 11:53:29 AM PDT by MortMan (Good health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die.)
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To: Diana in Wisconsin

“Both groups would seem to us dirty and smelly...”
—Oh?

“Humans today still should have some Neanderthal genes.”
—But we don’t.

“...the unanswered question of why Neanderthals died out is even more puzzling...”
—Possibly mating with Cro-Magnons did not produce viable offspring.


31 posted on 05/02/2007 3:40:19 PM PDT by Continental Soldier
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To: HungarianGypsy
Since those caveman commercials on TV started we have spotted cavemen ever where we go. A few cavewomen too. It’s sort of our new hobby. Yeah, I know, we’re weird. %;0)
32 posted on 05/02/2007 3:49:09 PM PDT by Ditter
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To: rainbow sprinkles

LOL! That’s adorable.

You know...we have FOUR lawn mowers; three push-types and one rider. Why don’t ANY of them work? I’ll have to ask the Neanderthal I married, LOL!


33 posted on 05/02/2007 4:48:39 PM PDT by Diana in Wisconsin (Save The Earth. It's The Only Planet With Chocolate.)
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To: HungarianGypsy

“I always laugh at the ones where he’s in the psychiatrist’s office.”

Yeah...I crack up when he’s text-messaging his Mother during his therapy sessions, LOL!


34 posted on 05/02/2007 4:50:52 PM PDT by Diana in Wisconsin (Save The Earth. It's The Only Planet With Chocolate.)
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To: leda

Ever seen Chris complain of the cold?


35 posted on 05/02/2007 4:57:03 PM PDT by patton (19yrs ... only 4,981yrs to go ;))
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To: SunkenCiv; leda

I was born with that bone, and a protruding brow ridge, and too many teeth, and my brain is bigger than yours...;)


36 posted on 05/02/2007 4:59:44 PM PDT by patton (19yrs ... only 4,981yrs to go ;))
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To: Continental Soldier

Red hair is a Neanderthal gene.

Know any redheads?

Not cro-magnum, homo sapiens sapiens.


37 posted on 05/02/2007 5:03:14 PM PDT by patton (19yrs ... only 4,981yrs to go ;))
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To: patton

you mean our kiddo who would stay outside in
3+ft of michigan snow all day? nope, never!


38 posted on 05/02/2007 5:28:37 PM PDT by leda (19yrs ... only 4,981yrs to go ;))
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To: patton
Know any redheads?

i know quite a few :)
39 posted on 05/02/2007 5:29:57 PM PDT by leda (19yrs ... only 4,981yrs to go ;))
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To: patton
I was born with that bone, and a protruding brow ridge

yep!

and too many teeth

yep!

and my brain is bigger than yours...;)

well, i dunno about that!
40 posted on 05/02/2007 5:32:40 PM PDT by leda (19yrs ... only 4,981yrs to go ;))
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To: digger48

bump to the tune!


41 posted on 05/02/2007 5:38:01 PM PDT by Jet Jaguar (Just say no to Brady Bunch Republicans.)
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To: Diana in Wisconsin
LOL ... you shoulda hooked up with the Binford guy ...Tim!


42 posted on 05/02/2007 6:19:12 PM PDT by Daffynition (Anything with tires and testicles will cause a woman trouble.)
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To: hellinahandcart

Not one word.


43 posted on 05/02/2007 7:19:41 PM PDT by sauropod ("An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools." Ernest Hemingway)
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To: Diana in Wisconsin

> It also means that the unanswered question of why the Neanderthals died out is even more puzzling,

That’s easy. The Neanderthal gene is recessive. We all got it, but don’t “express” it usually.


44 posted on 05/02/2007 7:24:00 PM PDT by XEHRpa
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To: Diana in Wisconsin

I have been telling Mr. Fairview for 25 years that he is a proto-hominid.


45 posted on 05/02/2007 8:07:26 PM PDT by Fairview ( Everybody is somebody else's weirdo.)
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To: BJClinton

I think they are talking about you - ping.

teenylaugh


46 posted on 05/02/2007 8:37:05 PM PDT by agent_delta
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To: rainbow sprinkles

Actually, I was married to a Gear Head in a previous life. That was 10X worse...all of our money was always tied up “in parts” and junk cars in various states of dis-repair. ;)


47 posted on 05/03/2007 4:53:33 AM PDT by Diana in Wisconsin (Save The Earth. It's The Only Planet With Chocolate.)
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To: Fairview

I call my dogs, “Quad-Pedal Canines.”

They call me “She Who Stands Upright, Giver of All Foodstuffs.” When I leave in the morning for work, I tell them, “Mommy’s off to the Dog Food Mine!” :)


48 posted on 05/03/2007 4:55:54 AM PDT by Diana in Wisconsin (Save The Earth. It's The Only Planet With Chocolate.)
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To: Diana in Wisconsin
I'm a neanderthal....

But I can change....

If I have to....

I guess.

49 posted on 05/03/2007 4:58:29 AM PDT by Osage Orange (The old/liberal/socialist media is the most ruthless and destructive enemy of this country.)
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To: Osage Orange

50 posted on 05/03/2007 5:54:57 AM PDT by Diana in Wisconsin (Save The Earth. It's The Only Planet With Chocolate.)
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