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My 102 year old grandma got her Census mailing.
vanity | 11/27/09 | vanity

Posted on 11/27/2009 5:24:12 PM PST by Winstons Julia

My 102 year old grandma has received two mailings from the Census Bureau. The envelope says she is required by law to answer the questions.

It's a huge booklet.

They are asking about her income. Does she get any from rental properties? How far does she drive to work?

I was stupefied at the financial questions asked.

What legal rights does she have? This reads like an invasive thing.

I thought they were just supposed to count us?

Should we go to the local congressman and complain?

Anyone?

I haven't received ANYTHING from the Census yet, and I'm in the same county.


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KEYWORDS: census
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What is going on? This is much more than a body count.
1 posted on 11/27/2009 5:24:15 PM PST by Winstons Julia
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To: Winstons Julia

I never fill out my census forms except for my name and how many people are living in the house. They already have my address.


2 posted on 11/27/2009 5:27:24 PM PST by peggybac
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To: Winstons Julia
Sounds like identity theft to me.
3 posted on 11/27/2009 5:27:34 PM PST by mountainlion (concerned conservative.)
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To: Winstons Julia

The simplest way to f*** up the intrusion is to answer the questions about name and age of each occupant of the residence. With respect to all the other questions, answer no and for income answer $18,122.65 which is the minimum wage. If everyone did this, the Bureau of the Census would only be able to count people for the apportionment of seats in the House of Representative which is all they should be authorized to do.


4 posted on 11/27/2009 5:28:31 PM PST by MIchaelTArchangel (A village in Kenya is missing its idiot.)
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To: Winstons Julia

In your grandma’s case, what are they going to do? Prosecute a 102 year old?

But for the rest of us, from what I’ve read, we’re pretty screwed. Ignore the forms or refuse to answer to an in-person census-taker, and at least some of us will go to jail.


5 posted on 11/27/2009 5:28:39 PM PST by RightOnTheLeftCoast (Obama: running for re-election in '12 or running for Mahdi now? [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahdi])
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To: Winstons Julia
"Required by law" ?
The census is mandated by the constitution but participation isn't. If the package didn't come by registered or certified mail with a return signature required, throw it away.
6 posted on 11/27/2009 5:28:44 PM PST by Eric in the Ozarks (Impeachment !)
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To: Winstons Julia

They are going to use it to set new congressional districts. They will also list the GPS coordinates of her front door.


7 posted on 11/27/2009 5:29:06 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Winstons Julia
I would advise her to do the same as I will if I get such an "intrusive" questionnaire: Throw it in the trash can.

What are they going to do? Put a 102 year old granny in Jail?

Now would that not make front page all over the country and be a nice black mark on the entire census, nanny-statist, bureaucracy? lol

PS: Me, I'm only 66, but still willing to tell them to go ahead, make my day and charge me with whatever.

8 posted on 11/27/2009 5:29:08 PM PST by Conservative Vermont Vet ((One of ONLY 37 Conservatives in the People's Republic of Vermont. Socialists and Progressives All))
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To: Winstons Julia
CALL the census bureau and ask them why it so intrusive...and two?...maybe it's a scam.
9 posted on 11/27/2009 5:29:13 PM PST by Doogle (USAF.68-73..8th TFW Ubon Thailand..never store a threat you should have eliminated))
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To: Winstons Julia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XtuPvwBa2U

This should help Grandma in answering the form.


10 posted on 11/27/2009 5:30:59 PM PST by fieldmarshaldj (~"This is what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps !"~~)
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To: Winstons Julia

Fill in the number of people at the residence.

For every other question, write:

“My answer is the Fifth Amendment.”

You will therefore have legally answered each question. It will not be the answer they were expecting, but it is your honest answer. You aren’t NOT answering the question, and you are not lying.


11 posted on 11/27/2009 5:30:59 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: Winstons Julia

They send long forms to a % of the population...I have to say seeing the Obama administration is out to off Grandma I would not let them know where I am


12 posted on 11/27/2009 5:31:12 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: RightOnTheLeftCoast

10 years ago I never received my envelope. They sent someone out to my house.

I refused to answer his questions despite threats of a $500 fine. Told him how many people lived there.


13 posted on 11/27/2009 5:31:29 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Winstons Julia

For the 2000 census I received the supplemental forms. I wrote rude remarks on the forms with red markers and sent them back.

I had three subsequent personal visits by census workers. The first two I was curt and direct and told them to leave.

The third time I answered my door with a Mossberg 500 shotgun in hand. They quickly left and never bothered me again.

True story.


14 posted on 11/27/2009 5:31:50 PM PST by Eagle Eye (3%)
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To: Winstons Julia

According the to the Census site the regular census is strictly short form now. But there’s another yearly survey, sent selectively, with the same legal requirements and with many more questions.


15 posted on 11/27/2009 5:32:34 PM PST by decimon
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To: Doogle

Its probably not a scam, they have been planning this for a while and the White House is in charge of it. Assuming its actually from the census bureau.


16 posted on 11/27/2009 5:32:58 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Winstons Julia

I haven’t filled out a census form since 1980 and then blacked out any identifying information on the form and put in only generic demographic answers for my family. Since then I flatly refuse to comply. In 2000 the census taker stalked me - but I successfully avoided her.

The Constitution says “enumerate” - to count ... enumerate does not mean to identify by name or intrusively insist upon revealing very personal information.

If a census worker shows up on my porch - I will run him or her off my property... I have an 880 foot drive way - so this should help keep them away.

I haven’t received any forms in the mail yet.

Since the census in now in the hands of the Obama Administration - I flatly refuse to cooperate.


17 posted on 11/27/2009 5:33:12 PM PST by ICCtheWay
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To: Winstons Julia

Tell them to go f*** themselves.


18 posted on 11/27/2009 5:33:45 PM PST by rickmichaels
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To: driftdiver; All

Here’s what I’m thinking. I’m thinking I rent or borrow a camcorder and we make a video. We talk about what the ten-year census is supposed to do.

We look at all the questions on grandma’s form (this appears to be an official mailing).

We head to the congressman’s office WITH the video running and we ask him why she is having to answer all of these questions.

There is a number on the envelope she can call for help.

I seriously was just FLABBERGASTED today when I was skimming through this huge mailer.


19 posted on 11/27/2009 5:35:52 PM PST by Winstons Julia (The liberal mantra: Never enough.)
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To: peggybac

Neil Boortz talks about his experience with a census worker. He told the guy he’s only required by the constitution to count himself.


20 posted on 11/27/2009 5:36:03 PM PST by Perdogg (Sarah Palin-Jim DeMint 2012 - Liz Cheney for Sec of State - Duncan Hunter SecDef)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
If the package didn't come by registered or certified mail with a return signature required, throw it away.

Good idea, I'll put my census forms in the bin with those GOP fundraising letters.

21 posted on 11/27/2009 5:37:12 PM PST by Never on my watch (The It is Not Terrorism Task Force (INTTF) is heading to the scene now.)
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To: RightOnTheLeftCoast
Ignore the forms or refuse to answer to an in-person census-taker, and at least some of us will go to jail.

No one has ever been arrested for not filling out the form. Just the threat is enough to make most comply.
22 posted on 11/27/2009 5:39:01 PM PST by WackySam (To argue with a man who has renounced his reason is like giving medicine to the dead.)
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To: Winstons Julia

I’d throw it in the trash if it was me. They don’t need that info and they don’t have a right to it.


23 posted on 11/27/2009 5:39:47 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Winstons Julia

I live in an RV Park and the Census taker was a cutie in a BMW who could not even find the Office so she just put census forms everywhere.

I don’t remember what I did with mine.

TRASH IT


24 posted on 11/27/2009 5:40:02 PM PST by Dov in Houston (The word Amnesty invokes a passion in me. Illegal immigrants are criminals. Supporters Aid & Abet)
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To: Winstons Julia

Just tell her to fill in her name and how many live at her home. Place a big red X through the rest of the pages.


25 posted on 11/27/2009 5:41:21 PM PST by WackySam (To argue with a man who has renounced his reason is like giving medicine to the dead.)
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To: rickmichaels

join oathkeepers.com


26 posted on 11/27/2009 5:41:21 PM PST by manonCANAL
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To: RightOnTheLeftCoast
at least some of us will go to jail.

Seriously? Can you point to cases where people have gone to jail or are you making this up? I suspect they will make your life miserable but jail? Has it ever happened? I doubt it. I believe that to be a hollow threat from the census bureau.

27 posted on 11/27/2009 5:46:36 PM PST by Drango (A liberal's compassion is limited only by the size of someone else's wallet.)
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To: Eagle Eye
The third time I answered my door with a Mossberg 500 shotgun in hand. They quickly left and never bothered me again.

Awesome. Simply awesome.
28 posted on 11/27/2009 5:46:57 PM PST by fr_freak
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To: fieldmarshaldj

That was too funny.


29 posted on 11/27/2009 5:47:09 PM PST by Robert DeLong (u)
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To: Winstons Julia

The Obama administration has expanded the census data collection to new heights. The information collected is the same information marketing people need to form targeted campaigns...

Which means that this data will be used by the Obama administration in developing their 2012 reelection campaign. It probably won’t use specific information supplied by individuals to target those individuals, but the data can be used to customize the campaign for specific areas and demographics.

This is the kind of information that politicians always wanted to have, but never had the audacity to try and use the census to collect.


30 posted on 11/27/2009 5:47:50 PM PST by coconutt2000 (NO MORE PEACE FOR OIL!!! DOWN WITH TYRANTS, TERRORISTS, AND TIMIDCRATS!!!! (3-T's For World Peace))
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To: Winstons Julia

Declaration To Make To Census Takers:

“I hereby affirm that the provisions of Title 13 requiring me to disclose my race, personal financial data, birth date, or any other personal, private information to the Bureau of the Census, an agency of the United States government, constitutes an unreasonable, unwarranted search of my person, house, papers, and/or effects, and a governmental invasion of the sanctity of my home and the privacies of life. As such, these provisions violate the Fourth Amendment of the US Constitution, and are thus wholly void and I am not bound to obey them.

I have completed only those sections of the Census form pertaining to the Constitutionally-mandated actual enumeration, as follows:

1. The actual number of people living at the address printed on the form, excluding untaxed Native Americans;
2. The actual number of males living at the address printed on the form that are over the age of 20.

I have thus fulfilled my obligation to the attainment of the actual enumeration of the populace of the United States.

Any fine or other sanction that is levied by any office or organization stemming from the unconstitutional provisions of Title 13 in connection with my response to this or any other Census-related questioning will be challenged in a court of law.”


31 posted on 11/27/2009 5:49:06 PM PST by TruthHound ("He who does not punish evil commands it to be done." --Leonardo da Vinci)
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To: manonCANAL
join oathkeepers.com

I'm guessing you mean oathkeepers.org .
32 posted on 11/27/2009 5:50:42 PM PST by fr_freak
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To: manonCANAL; All

I’ll be honest...I saw the forms today and I used to work for the Census Bureau. They do more than the head count. I did the Monthly Labor Survey. The Survey of agriculture...and another one that was designed to determine the scientifically trained college educated people in the country,

But THIS is just the one that is supposed to COUNT us.

WHAT ARE THEY DOING sending all these questions to a 102 year-old woman?

I mean, I was SHOCKED at the things they were asking and I didn’t even go through the whole mailer.

Grandma is feisty. She went to the local tea-party with us on April 15th.

I kind of think I need to do more.

I need to make a video. I need to talk to grandma. We need to talk about the Census. We need to talk about the government. (She retired at 93 and still has private insurance she pays for to augment her Medicare)...

We need to make a video of the questions on this mailing.

We need to ask why the government is asking these questions of a 102 year old woman...when all they are asked to do is count us.

We need to go into the local congressman’s office with the video running...

We need to get the video to Breitbart or Beck.

This is ridiculous.

You should not be asking people ALL of these questions under threat of law!


33 posted on 11/27/2009 5:51:30 PM PST by Winstons Julia (The liberal mantra: Never enough.)
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To: NewJerseyJoe

ping


34 posted on 11/27/2009 5:56:36 PM PST by NewJerseyJoe (Rat mantra: "Facts are meaningless! You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!")
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To: Winstons Julia

I just read that there is no long form for the 2010 census.


35 posted on 11/27/2009 5:56:41 PM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: TruthHound

Thank you truthhound. I am going to call her and tell her about this...because she doesn’t want to fill out these forms (we are private people, but law-abiding) and she doesn’t know what to do.


36 posted on 11/27/2009 5:56:51 PM PST by Winstons Julia (The liberal mantra: Never enough.)
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To: Sacajaweau

If this isn’t long...I don’t know what it is.

It is probably fifteen PAGES long.


37 posted on 11/27/2009 6:01:12 PM PST by Winstons Julia (The liberal mantra: Never enough.)
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To: Winstons Julia

Better yet...go ask you Congressman all of those questions and watch the response.


38 posted on 11/27/2009 6:06:59 PM PST by willyd (Reducing Taxes Reduces our Carbon Footprint)
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To: Winstons Julia
People should be careful to give legal advice on this subject. The Constitution is not the only law regarding the census. There is substantial enabling legislation in the U.S. Code, and criminal penalties for certain actions, including:

221. Refusal or neglect to answer questions; false answers

(a) Whoever, being over eighteen years of age, refuses or willfully neglects, when requested by the Secretary, or by any other authorized officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof acting under the instructions of the Secretary or authorized officer, to answer, to the best of his knowledge, any of the questions on any schedule submitted to him in connection with any census or survey provided for by subchapters I, II, IV, and V of chapter 5 of this title, applying to himself or to the family to which he belongs or is related, or to the farm or farms of which he or his family is the occupant, shall be fined not more than $100.

(b) Whoever, when answering questions described in subsection (a) of this section, and under the conditions or circumstances described in such subsection, willfully gives any answer that is false, shall be fined not more than $500.

(c) Notwithstanding any other provision of this title, no person shall be compelled to disclose information relative to his religious beliefs or to membership in a religious body.

Sec. 222. Giving suggestions or information with intent to cause inaccurate enumeration of population

Whoever, either directly or indirectly, offers or renders to any officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof engaged in making an enumeration of population under subchapter II, IV, or V of chapter 5 of this title, any suggestion, advice, information or assistance of any kind, with the intent or purpose of causing an inaccurate enumeration of population to be made, shall be fined not more than $1,000 or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.

39 posted on 11/27/2009 6:08:25 PM PST by americanophile (Sarcasm: satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language.)
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To: Eagle Eye

Bet you’re on a watch list in Washington. LOL!


40 posted on 11/27/2009 6:12:57 PM PST by thecabal (Destroy Progressivism)
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To: Winstons Julia

Look up “The American Community Survey.” Got this a couple of years ago & never filled it out. Put up with 3 months of harassment by Census employees to obtain the information, including nightly visits for 2.5 months. After about 3 months, they will give up.


41 posted on 11/27/2009 6:20:19 PM PST by bobcat62
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To: Winstons Julia

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/13/usc_sup_01_13_10_7_20_II.html


42 posted on 11/27/2009 6:20:54 PM PST by smokingfrog (I'm from TEXAS -- what country are YOU from?)
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To: decimon; Winstons Julia

I was going to post a similar answer, but decimon pretty much wrote what I was going to say. For some, the yearly survey will hit the same year as the regular census form.

I believe the longer form that’s sent to a certain % of the population each year is called the ACS. It’s been 10+ months or so since I was out to the census bureau website, but if I recall correctly, the penalties are for not completing the “regular” census and do not apply to the ACS. HOWEVER, please don’t take my word for it. Go out to the census bureau website and take a look...

Also, did a quick search because I remembered posting about this once before—

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2174366/posts?page=81

See my post at #73...


43 posted on 11/27/2009 6:22:06 PM PST by green pastures
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To: coconutt2000

That’s exactly right on - and couple that with their snitch website awhile back with all the $$$$ confiscated from TARP and Porkulus.


44 posted on 11/27/2009 6:22:31 PM PST by quantim (Victory is not relative, it is absolute.)
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To: Eagle Eye

“I nicked the census man.

Now theres a good boy”


45 posted on 11/27/2009 6:26:16 PM PST by dangerdoc
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To: Winstons Julia

Five word reply to the feddies: “Lo siento, no hablo Inglis.”


46 posted on 11/27/2009 6:29:30 PM PST by tumblindice (Republicrats=Demoblicans)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

Eric,
I was wondering if I wrote on it to go f themselves and put it in the mail can they come after me?
After all, I’m an extremist, white male, Christian, former military, etc. etc. etc.


47 posted on 11/27/2009 6:33:57 PM PST by Joe Boucher (This marxist punk has got to go.)
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To: coconutt2000; CatDancer
The Obama administration has expanded the census data collection to new heights.

Believe me there are very few occasions where I would defend the guy, but these long form census mailings have been out there for a long time. We got one in 2000*. Hugely intrusive, easily 20 pages of stuff including how many bathrooms.

*The bright side of things was they actually sent the long form to my deceased aunt, who had the same address, but lived in the downstairs of our old house. (We used to live in the upstairs of the old house.) We had built a new house next door to the old one, and were given the same house number. Did we have fun explaining that. But technically since they had sent it to her, we were able to return it as addressee deceased.

But this was 10 years ago, and Obama certainly didn't have any influence on the census then-- apart from community organization aspirations...
48 posted on 11/27/2009 6:34:10 PM PST by green pastures
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To: green pastures
Do I have to respond to the American Community Survey / Puerto Rico Community Survey?

Yes. Respondents are required to answer all questions on the American Community Survey (ACS) to the best of their ability. Response to this and other Census surveys is required by law (Section 221 of Title 13, Chapter 7, United States Code). This chapter also contains information regarding offenses and possible penalties. According to Section 221, persons who do not respond shall be fined not more than $100. Title 18 U.S.C. Section 3571 and Section 3559, in effect amends Title 13 U.S.C. Section 221 by changing the fine for anyone over 18 years old who refuses or willfully neglects to complete the questionnaire or answer questions posed by census takers from a fine of not more than $100 to not more than $5,000. More information. Your answers are very important because they represent the answers of many other similar households in your community. The data that you and others provide in response to this survey are required to manage or evaluate federal and state government programs. If you submit an incomplete form or provide data that are unclear, we may contact you by phone or in person to obtain or clarify the missing information. The ACS is part of the Decennial Census Program. It is a survey that is sent to a small percentage of our population on a rotating basis. These data previously were collected only in census years in conjunction with the decennial census. Since the ACS is conducted every year, rather than once every ten years, it will provide more current data throughout the decade. The Census Bureau may use the information it collects only for statistical purposes. Title 13 requires the Census Bureau to keep all information about you, and all other respondents, strictly confidential. Any Census Bureau employee who violates these provisions is subject to a fine up to $250,000, a prison sentence up to five years, or both.

https://askacs.census.gov/cgi-bin/askacs.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=642&p_created=1093522639&p_sid=1*fLc3Oj&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPSZwX3NvcnRfYnk9JnBfZ3JpZHNvcnQ9JnBfcm93X2NudD0zNiwzNiZwX3Byb2RzPSZwX2NhdHM9JnBfcHY9JnBfY3Y9JnBfc2VhcmNoX3R5cGU9YW5zd2Vycy5zZWFyY2hfbmwmcF9wYWdlPTE*&p_li=&p_topview=1

49 posted on 11/27/2009 6:35:31 PM PST by decimon
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To: americanophile

(c) Notwithstanding any other provision of this title, no person shall be compelled to disclose information relative to his religious beliefs or to membership in a religious body.


Maybe Grandma needs to say privacy is her religion.


50 posted on 11/27/2009 6:35:31 PM PST by Winstons Julia (The liberal mantra: Never enough.)
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