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Neanderthal: New Images of an Ancient Enemy
http://www.themandus.org ^ | Vendramini

Posted on 03/18/2012 5:24:33 PM PDT by varmintman

Danny Venderamini's main site.

Vendramini thesis on Youtube.

All Neanderthal images here courtesy of www.themandus.org

This thing starts off with Danny Vendramini figuring out something which should have been figured out 100 years ago i.e.. that (other than for the larger brain area) a Neanderthal skull is a near perfect match for ape profiles and a very bad match for one of ours:

That is consistent with what we know about Neanderthal DNA i.e. that it's no closer to ours than to an ape's. The funny thing is that Vendramini did not tell his artist to produce the world's scariest monster, the basic order was to start with Neanderthal skulls and skeletal bones and try to flesh them out using the assumption that what you had was a bipedal, carniverous ape with an 8" fur coat (like every other ice-age animal) and the big eyes which Neanderthal eye sockets suggest for nocturnal hunting, and possibly a slightly mean look on the thing's face. The fact that what turns up looks as bad as it does to us is probably, as Vendramini suggests, due to past bad experiences with it, sort of like the instinctive human reaction to spiders and snakes:

neanderprofile, hairy ape with fur

The 8" fur coat also explains why no Neanderthal needles have ever been found...

Without the fur coat:

neanderthal 4

Neanderthal 3

Photobucket

neanderthal1

Given the recent human population bottleneck, there is no way to believe that any modern human is related to this creature in any way other than for the possible re-use of low-level genetic components by an original designer or designers (the bottleneck says that if any human had any of this guy's genes we all would, not just Caucasians and East Asians), and likewise there is zero way to believe that any modern humans ever interbred with something like that. The image of the Neanderthal in popular culture and science turns out to be rubbish.

This thing was wiped out in some sort of a stone age world war and whoever wiped it out did the world a giant favor. Other than that, Danny Vendramini subscribes to a variant of the Gould/Eldredge flavor of evolutionism, nonetheless the scholarship involved in reconstructing what Neanderthals actually amounted to does not suffer from that.


TOPICS: Education; History; Science; Weird Stuff
KEYWORDS: dannyvendramini; neanderthal; nileseldredge; prehistory; stephenjaygould; tedholden; varmintspam
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1 posted on 03/18/2012 5:24:40 PM PDT by varmintman
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To: varmintman

You can still find these guys at any union meeting.


2 posted on 03/18/2012 5:28:16 PM PDT by Farmer Dean (stop worrying about what they want to do to you,start thinking about what you want to do to them)
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To: Farmer Dean

That may be part of the reason for the popular myth, which says we’re all really just the same, and speaks of some sort of a happy, idyllic prehistoric period in which Gaea-worshiping matriarchal societies dominated a happier planet.....


3 posted on 03/18/2012 5:31:16 PM PDT by varmintman
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To: varmintman

Not quite Barbara Bach in a fur bikini now is it? I’ll keep my inmage of what cave people looked like, you all can keep yours.


4 posted on 03/18/2012 5:31:55 PM PDT by NavyCanDo
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To: NavyCanDo

Cave PEOPLE are one thing, the Neanderthal was a cave ape. Cro Magnons did in fact look better than that.


5 posted on 03/18/2012 5:33:56 PM PDT by varmintman
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To: NavyCanDo

6 posted on 03/18/2012 5:35:24 PM PDT by EEGator
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To: NavyCanDo
Same here.


7 posted on 03/18/2012 5:36:14 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post)
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To: varmintman; SunkenCiv
When I see these pictures, something primorideal in me screams. It's like, my genetic structure knows this species, knows they are very dangerous, and wants to kill them or flee.

Based on my guys turning inside out the minute I see these pictures, I have a hunch this guy's art is accurate to what the species actually looked like.

8 posted on 03/18/2012 5:36:38 PM PDT by Lazamataz (Shut up and drill.)
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To: EEGator

There’s a hint of tan line... she must have had a different fur bikini for the colder temperatures in early spring.


9 posted on 03/18/2012 5:41:22 PM PDT by ChiefJayStrongbow
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To: Lazamataz
That's what Vendramini says i.e. that people see those images and just about have heart attacks. There's a Kindle version of Vendramini's book on Amazon for around $10 and there's at least one non evolutionist interpretation of the data available. Weird, but non evolutionist...
10 posted on 03/18/2012 5:46:39 PM PDT by varmintman
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To: Lazamataz

Apes and humans are completely different species and the Neantherdal skulls are definitely more apelike.

Assuming he’s correct, I wouldn’t mind seeing his work on Cro-magnan skulls to see what they look like without anthropomorphism.


11 posted on 03/18/2012 5:47:05 PM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: Lazamataz

I agree Laz, in spite of Nat’l Geographic’s pictorial presentations that tried to make them look much like us, I have always felt that this is what they really looked like.


12 posted on 03/18/2012 5:47:16 PM PDT by Inyo-Mono (My greatest fear is that when I'm gone my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them)
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To: ChiefJayStrongbow

I’d hope she would tan nude.


13 posted on 03/18/2012 5:48:49 PM PDT by EEGator
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To: varmintman
There are some old pictures of what they thought Neanderthals looked like about 100 years ago which were much like these. Could big foot be their cousin?
14 posted on 03/18/2012 5:48:59 PM PDT by mountainlion (I am voting for Sarah after getting screwed again by the DC Thugs.)
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To: varmintman
I used to follow these arguments in Scientific America until the magazine became so horiibly biased towards anthropogenic global warming as to be unreadable.

The bias in favor of the "out of Africa", "we are all brother" hypothesis made me conclude that it was undoubtedly a load of Cro-Magnon crap.

15 posted on 03/18/2012 5:51:24 PM PDT by Aevery_Freeman (Typed using <FONT STYLE=SARCASM> unless otherwise noted)
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To: Lazamataz
The Neanderthals were just another "race" like blacks, whites, etc. They were a bit shorter, stockier, more well muscled, and had essentially the same brain.

The Cro-Magnons, frequently identified as ancestral to the Europeans and Chinese, had a larger brain than modern man, and were a tad taller ~ probably from a better diet based on wild game, nuts, berries and roots.

During the last quarter of the latest period of glacial advance most European, North Asian and East Asian populations were confined to small unglaciated areas called "refugia". Modern populations are descended from these small groups ~ each is differentiated by various minor gene differences.

The Sa'ami seem to have retained many more of the specific differences that identify the Cro-Magnon people and to a degree may better represent the ancestral population of most of the people in the world.

There have been some changes. Southern tribes gave up living on ice and hunting reindeer and seals. They developed agriculture and animal domestication which changed their diet to the far more unhealthy one of bread and boiled beef. This has led to other, less valuable, genetic differentiation.

16 posted on 03/18/2012 5:51:31 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: mountainlion

No. If anything like that were still around, it would be really obvious from all the remains of deer and farm animals lying around.


17 posted on 03/18/2012 5:53:34 PM PDT by varmintman
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To: mountainlion

I admit looking at it is unsettling.


18 posted on 03/18/2012 5:55:12 PM PDT by Mmogamer (I refudiate the lamestream media, leftists and their prevaricutions.)
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To: Lazamataz
When I see these pictures, something primorideal in me screams.

Oh. You'd hit it? That's a surprise. Not.

19 posted on 03/18/2012 5:55:32 PM PDT by null and void (Day 1153 of America's ObamaVacation from reality [Heroes aren't made, Frank, they're cornered...])
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To: Jonty30
For all practical purposes you have a Cro-Magnon skull, except it's a bit smaller than required for the heavy lifting.

There are racial differences in hat size. White folks, in general, don't have the biggest hat sizes BTW.

20 posted on 03/18/2012 5:56:05 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah; Lazamataz
The Neanderthals were just another "race" like blacks, whites, etc. They were a bit shorter, stockier, more well muscled, and had essentially the same brain.

Venderamini's thesis would be really easy to falsify (i.e. it's not pseudoscience); all you'd have to do would be find the first Neanderthal needle.

I'm assuming that's never gonna happen however since a creature with an 8" fur coat doesn't really need clothing or needles...

21 posted on 03/18/2012 5:58:12 PM PDT by varmintman
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To: varmintman

Hey. Where’s the fig leaf! :)


22 posted on 03/18/2012 6:01:38 PM PDT by dhs12345
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To: varmintman

But they sung a fine supranno due to the way their vocal cords were placed in relationship to their skulls.

Not that scary - they may have looked mean (in those renderings by some “artist”) but they were likely pussy cats in person.


23 posted on 03/18/2012 6:02:38 PM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now it is your turn ...)
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To: varmintman

This guy plays for the Chicago Bears I think.


24 posted on 03/18/2012 6:07:11 PM PDT by Tainan (Cogito, ergo conservatus sum)
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To: Lazamataz

Re: pictures 3, 5, and 6 - Morlocks as they really should be depicted. Stuff of nightmares.


25 posted on 03/18/2012 6:09:13 PM PDT by Captain Rhino (Determined Effort is the hammer that Human Will uses to forge Tomorrow on the anvil of Today.)
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To: Jonty30

The Smithsonian in DC had a display with a female in it. As an old sailor we got into a discussion would she be acceptable at 0200 after 10 beers. The answer was yes. I am not surprised that there is some of their DNA in us. Our ancestors were pretty lusty, all in all.


26 posted on 03/18/2012 6:09:22 PM PDT by Citizen Tom Paine (An old sailor sends)
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To: blam; SunkenCiv

Neanderthal ping...with pics


27 posted on 03/18/2012 6:09:55 PM PDT by Tainan (Cogito, ergo conservatus sum)
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To: Farmer Dean

They control the dhimmocrats.


28 posted on 03/18/2012 6:11:02 PM PDT by 353FMG
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To: Farmer Dean
That's a pretty big difference from this guy: I wish somebody would figure out once and for all what the real neanderthal looked like.
29 posted on 03/18/2012 6:11:12 PM PDT by sadponies
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To: PIF
It reminds me of something...


30 posted on 03/18/2012 6:12:09 PM PDT by null and void (Day 1153 of America's ObamaVacation from reality [Heroes aren't made, Frank, they're cornered...])
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To: PIF

They had their strengths and weaknesses. Having an 8” fur coat for instance meant they’d have to be more careful of fire than our own ancestors needed to be, i.e. it wouldn’t have been that hard for a Cro Magnon with a torch to light one of them up...


31 posted on 03/18/2012 6:15:29 PM PDT by varmintman
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To: Farmer Dean

Looks like my high school football coach.


32 posted on 03/18/2012 6:16:33 PM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks (Beware the Sweater Vest)
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To: varmintman
You'd really have to be nuts to wander about with an 8" thick fur coat playing with fire. We do have Neanderthal fireplaces AND there are needles.

Since the Neanderthal type lived in Europe over a 300,000+ period of time (as compared to our own 35,000 year occupancy) their stuff is a lot older than ours, subject to the wear and tear of FOUR ICE AGES (with innumerable glacial advances) .

Full DNA analysis has been done for only a handful of Neanderthals as yet, but they got the same stuff ~ they are people ~ not apes at all.

BTW, they could also make pigments (for painting something) and could tan hides.

As is typical of so many uninformed folks in this world, what you end up doing is attacking yet another group of red-heads!

Sure, it's a different red-yellow pigment than the more advanced humans have, but it's still red.

Portrayals of Neanderthal as BLACK or DEEP BROWN are necessarily wrong. Portrayals of other humans as WHITE at the same period of time are also wrong.

33 posted on 03/18/2012 6:22:00 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: varmintman
He vould have an enormous tiny schwanzstucker.
34 posted on 03/18/2012 6:28:25 PM PDT by razorback-bert (Some days it's not worth chewing through the straps.)
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To: varmintman
He vould have an enormous tiny schwanzstucker.
35 posted on 03/18/2012 6:28:39 PM PDT by razorback-bert (Some days it's not worth chewing through the straps.)
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To: muawiyah
We do have Neanderthal fireplaces AND there are needles.

That isn't the way I read it. Put up or shut up.

"The Middle Paleolithic was the time of the Neanderthal who wore clothing made of animal hides draped around the body and probably bound in place with sinew. Neanderthals did not create any surviving artwork and did not leave behind any evidence of loom or needle."

36 posted on 03/18/2012 6:28:43 PM PDT by varmintman
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To: Lazamataz

Predator, that’s what you’re seeing and sensing. Sets off a primordial response. If there were instances of populations crossing paths, I have a pretty good sense of who wanted to kill and eat whom.

Of course, it’s an artist’s conceptualization and could very well be wildly wrong. It illicits the response intended.


37 posted on 03/18/2012 6:33:46 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: RegulatorCountry

Close. Lions and cheetahs are predators however and they don’t generate anything like the reaction that thing does. There’re probably some really bad racial memories involved with that thing.


38 posted on 03/18/2012 6:39:06 PM PDT by varmintman
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To: varmintman

A reasonably intelligent predator much like oneself in some regards, but utterly feral in others would be more alarming than a four legged creature that has some semblance of physical beauty. A reasonably intelligent, humanoid predator would likely intertain himself rather than immediately dispatching his prey, unlike the four legged predator.

But, then again, this is an artist’s conceptualiztion, and we are no doubt reacting as intended.


39 posted on 03/18/2012 6:48:03 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: varmintman
There's always newer evidence. Over 300,000 years you have to expect all sorts of things.

I'm satisfied that Neanderthal had the dexterity and eyesight necessary to do needles. At the same time they, like everybody else in the world, probably made their needles out of wood and bone, both highly perishable

Now, the tough one, find a paleolithic stainless steel needle.

40 posted on 03/18/2012 6:50:28 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Inyo-Mono

Maybe this is Bigfoot?


41 posted on 03/18/2012 6:52:23 PM PDT by Forward the Light Brigade (Into the Jaws of H*ll)
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To: RegulatorCountry
Vendramini's artist seems to have fight faces on several of his subjects which would be more like for picking a fight with another Neanderthal than anything a predator would ever show a prey animal. The one picture strikes me as a bit more businesslike:

neanderprofile, hairy ape with fur

42 posted on 03/18/2012 6:53:19 PM PDT by varmintman
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To: Lazamataz
“When I see these pictures, something primorideal in me screams. It's like, my genetic structure knows this species, knows they are very dangerous, and wants to kill them or flee.
Based on my guys turning inside out the minute I see these pictures, I have a hunch this guy's art is accurate to what the species actually looked like.”

I know what you mean. Thing scares the crap out of me too.
I had an incident last year where I left my secluded cabin
in the woods at night. No light, I'm familiar enough to find
my Jeep in the dark. I went a few steps and all of a sudden
was terrified. Almost couldn't make it to the Jeep. Shook
and sweat all the way home. I finally figured out that I
had smelled something. A few weeks later there was cougar
killed in the area. I wonder if I smelled one and that part
of my brain screamed “predator”.

43 posted on 03/18/2012 6:54:01 PM PDT by CrazyIvan (Obama's birth certificate was found stapled to Soros's receipt.)
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To: muawiyah
I'm satisfied that Neanderthal had the dexterity and eyesight necessary to do needles.

That's your standard of proof?? Try doing a google search on "neanderthal needle"; what quickly turns up is any number of statements attesting to the fact that nobody has ever found one.

44 posted on 03/18/2012 6:55:28 PM PDT by varmintman
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To: varmintman

(Found on wall of a French cave)

Homo saps draw on cave walls [grunt] and
Roll poo in little balls [ooh ooh, aw aw]
.......Ha Ha...the Neanderthals


45 posted on 03/18/2012 6:56:40 PM PDT by tumblindice (our new, happy lives)
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To: varmintman

Of all the varied artist depictions of Neanderthals I have seen in the past, this seems to be one more.


46 posted on 03/18/2012 7:00:40 PM PDT by eartrumpet
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To: tumblindice
The Cro Magnons got the last laugh in as I read it. There's at least one place on the web where you can buy a copy of the neolithic super weapon for under a hundred dollars.

Three or four things I figure led to the demise of the Neanderthal and the atlatl might have been the most major item. Apes don't seem to have the kinds of shoulders you'd want for throwing anything or using something like an atlatl. Other factors would have been Cro Magnons using dogs to nullify the advantage the Neanderthals had at night, fire, and general organizational ability. Neanderthals may have never developed the ability to think of themselves as part of anything bigger than their own family groups or clans.

47 posted on 03/18/2012 7:05:29 PM PDT by varmintman
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To: varmintman
Whoah, wait a minute ... four toes?
48 posted on 03/18/2012 7:08:37 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: eartrumpet

Don’t talk like that, you’ll confuse the Neanderthals.


49 posted on 03/18/2012 7:09:50 PM PDT by MaxMax
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To: varmintman

I’m unimpressed.

After starting off with the superimposition of a skull of an upright hominid onto the head of a forward-leaning gorilla, the whole recreation just goes downhill.

Besides the base of the skull being the wrong shape for a gorilla-type creature, the addition of the jaw would place portions of that skull outside the gorilla head. A Neanderthal skull isn’t all that different from a modern human skull.

The full body recreations look more like models considered for the representation of Gollum in Lord of the Rings than they do to any kind of primate, human or not.


50 posted on 03/18/2012 7:12:18 PM PDT by exDemMom (Now that I've finally accepted that I'm living a bad hair life, I'm more at peace with the world.)
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