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The Battle of Midway
Self | June 4, 2013 | Self

Posted on 06/04/2013 11:18:48 AM PDT by Retain Mike

A Near-Run Victory at Midway

Walter Lord and Gordon Prange considered Midway an incredible, miraculous victory. For Mitsuo Fuchida and Masatake Okumiya, the battle doomed Japan. The calculated risks Chester Nimitz took required assembling all possible resources, and still left him with a three to one disadvantage in ships. To appreciate further this tenuous condition note the fate of four Army B-26 medium bombers rushed to Midway.

Captain James Collins led the aircraft in torpedo attacks. The pilots had never seen or practiced with aerial torpedoes. They would now only practice takeoffs and landings.

Those early B-26’s earned a reputation as “Widowmakers”. To avoid fatal landings, pilots flew final at 150 mph, and landed at speeds of 120-135 mph; excessive compared to contemporary aircraft.

The Mark 13 aerial torpedo was equally unforgiving in 1942. The pilots were attempting to hit a 30 knot aircraft carrier with a 33 knot torpedo. To do so required flying straight, low, and slow through lethal fighter attacks and intense anti-aircraft fire. Only one in three torpedoes would run hot and true when launched at heights over 50 feet and at speeds exceeding 126 mph. For the B-26’s that meant flying close to the speed where they would auger into the ocean.

The B-26’s attacked the carriers but obtained no hits. Two of four aircraft with their five man crews perished. Captain Collins with another crippled bomber returned and crash landed on Midway. Such courage and sacrifice by Army, Navy, and Marines wrought this astonishing victory.

Midway: Extraordinary Leadership and Brave Men

In late December 1941, Navy Secretary Frank Knox and FDR met and selected Chester Nimitz to command the Pacific Fleet, which at the time the public perceived as residing at the bottom of Pearl Harbor. Roosevelt said, “Tell Nimitz to get the hell out to Pearl and stay there until the war is won”. Knox informed Nimitz by saying, “You’re going to take command of the Pacific Fleet, and I think you will be gone a long time”.

On Christmas Day 1941 Admiral Chester Nimitz arrived by Catalina flying boat to take command. When the door opened he was assailed by a poisonous atmosphere from black oil, charred wood, burned wiring, insulation and paint, and rotting flesh. The boat ride to shore engulfed the party in the panorama of sunken hulls and floating wreckage punctuated by the bodies of dead sailors still surfacing from the blasted ships.

He spent the first days learning everything he could about his new assignment and confirmed the public’s perception was incorrect. The dry-dock, the repair shops, and the tank farm were intact. The carriers, their escorts, and the submarines stood ready to take the offensive. Admiral Raymond Spruance said of Nimitz, “The one big thing about him was that he was always ready to fight….And he wanted officers who would push the fight to the Japanese”.

Nimitz decided some very good men had taken a terrible beating and were now suffering terrible reminders and apprehensions. When he officially took command December 31, he told the assembled staffs he had complete and unlimited confidence in every one of them. As head of officer personnel in the Pentagon, he knew they had been selected for their competence. But if any wanted to leave, he would individually discuss their futures and do all he could to get them the assignment they wanted. However, there were a few key staff members he wanted to stay with him. They included Commander Joe Rochefort, Jr. and Lieutenant Commander Edwin T. Layton. These men did not provide warning of the Pearl Harbor attack, but later provided the key intelligence allowing Nimitz to take the calculated risks for the Midway battle.

Midway began with the gracious, quiet, determined leadership of Nimitz bringing the fight to the enemy at long odds. It finished with the fearful sacrifice of a few brave men on that day. To understand Nimitz’s and the flyers tenuous position consider that gathering nearly every U.S. Navy ship left in the Pacific achieved the following order of battle for Midway.

Japan United States Heavy aircraft carriers 4 3 Light aircraft carriers 2 0 Battleships 11 0 Heavy cruisers 10 6 Light cruisers 6 1 Destroyers 53 17 --- --- Total 86 27

This abbreviated narrative now leaves out the contribution of thousands, whose efforts provided the vital margin needed for victory. Preparing Midway for invasion and assembling the task forces at point “Luck” to attack the Japanese required prodigious achievements in logistics, ship repair, and naval intelligence. The narrative also does not describe how making more and/or paying the more bitter price for mistakes contributed heavily to the Japanese defeat.

The Japanese transport group was discovered on June 3, but on June 4, 1942 the curtain rises for the carrier battle when PBY patrols by Lieutenant Howard Ady discover the Japanese task force, and by Lieutenant William Chase report Japanese planes heading towards Midway. The warnings enabled the 120 aircraft crammed onto Midway to get into the air and Admirals Raymond Spruance and Frank Fletcher to launch carrier attacks. All Midway aircraft made attacks against the carriers except for 25 Marine Brewster Buffalos and Wildcat fighters dedicated to repel the attackers. In the ensuing Japanese attack on Midway at 6:16AM, 14 of the 25 pilots died prompting Captain Philip R. White to say, “It is my belief that any commander that orders pilots out for combat in a F2A-3 should consider the pilot lost before leaving the ground”.

The attacks by land based planes on the Japanese carriers began at 7:48AM. First six TBF Avenger torpedo bombers lead by Lieutenant Langdon K. Fieberling obtained no hits, but five of six aircraft were destroyed including Fieberling’s and only two of 18 men survived. Next Army Captain James Collins lead four Army Air Corps B-26 medium bombers rigged to carry torpedoes in the first ever attempt to attack enemy ships. Two of four planes and their five man crews perished, and no hits were obtained. Lieutenant Colonel Walter C. Sweeney lead 15 long range B-17’s over Nagumo’s position in a level bombing attack from 20,000 feet and obtained no hits on the carriers or escorts. Major Benjamin Norris lead eleven Vindicator dive bombers considered so ancient pilots called them “wind indicators”. They never reached the carriers and unsuccessfully attacked a battleship. Amazingly only two fell to enemy attacks and two more were lost at sea because of low fuel.

Next into the battle came Torpedo 3, Torpedo 6, and Torpedo 8 from the USS Yorktown, USS Enterprise, and USS Hornet respectively. In all Lt. Commander Lance E. Massey, Lt. Commander Gene Lindsey, and Lt. Commander John Waldron lead 41 Devastator torpedo bombers. The squadrons became separated (Waldron deliberately so) from their dive bombers and fighters that were intended to accompany them for coordinated attacks. These 100 mph torpedo bombers had to evade 300 mph Zero fighters, and withstand concentrated task force anti-aircraft fire long enough to launch effectively 33 knot torpedoes against 30 knot aircraft carriers.

In pressing home their attacks, 35 aircraft with their three man crews were lost, except for Lieutenant George H. Gay who crashed in the midst of the Japanese carriers and was rescued by a PBY the next day. The only fighters about were six from Fighting 3 lead by Lt. Commander “Jimmy” Thach that tangled with a horde of Zero fighters and lost one aircraft. Those from Fighting 6 lead by Lieutenant Jim Gray lost track of the torpedo bombers and kept circling at 20,000 feet to protect the dive bombers they never found. Eventually these fighters returned to the Enterprise in total frustration.

The USS Hornet fighters and dive bombers spent a fruitless morning. Commander Stan Ring lead Bombing 8, Scouting 8, and Fighting 8 exactly as directed and then searched to the south until fuel was critical and each squadron proceeded independently. Lt. Commander Russ Johnson leading Bombing 8 was unable to find the Hornet and landed on Midway, but 3 of the 14 aircraft had to ditch on the way for lack of fuel. Lieutenant Stan Ruehlow leading Fighting 8 remained determined to find the Hornet, but all ten aircraft had to ditch, and Ens. Mark Kelly and Ens. George R. Hill were never found. That morning there were 29 empty seats in the Hornet ready room. Fifteen seats belonged to Torpedo 8 pilots slaughtered that morning by the Japanese. The 11 were for Bombing 8 that refueled at Midway and later returned to the Hornet.

The Japanese carrier task forces had withstood seven separate attacks over nearly three hours without a single hit. Not counting the B-17’s that stayed at 20,000 feet, Navy and Army flyers pressed home attacks with 62 aircraft. Of those 44 were destroyed, 134 of 183 men were lost, and no hits were obtained.

Next Bombing 3 and Bombing 6 from the USS Yorktown and USS Enterprise respectively found the carriers. They arrived over the carriers while the Zero fighters were still at low altitude finishing off the last of the American torpedo bombers. The 17 planes of Commander Max Leslie’s Bombing 3 delivered three fatal hits to one carrier, probably the Soryu. For Bombing 6, Lieutenants Wade McClusky and Richard Best lead sections that obtained three hits on the Akagi and at least four hits on the Kaga. The Japanese task forces that had been impervious to harm from 7:48 to 10:23AM saw three of their heavy carriers turned into burning wreckage in six minutes. However, a price had to be paid. Max Leslie’s planes returned safely, but Bombing 6 lost 8 of 18 two man crews.

There was still one heavy carrier unaccounted for, and at 3PM Lieutenant Sam Adams of Scouting 5 radioed Admiral Spruance its location. The Admiral had no fighters or torpedo bombers, but ordered Lieutenant Earl Gallaher aloft at 3:30PM to lead 24 planes from three dive bombers squadrons. A half hour later the Hornet launched 16 dive bombers lead by reserve Lieutenant Edgar Stebbins. These 40 aircraft encountered anti-aircraft fire, lighting attacks from Zeros, and superb evasive ship handling, but there were too many planes and bombs. At least four hits and many near misses transformed the Hiryu into the fourth blazing funeral pyre of the day. All three dive bombing squadrons got hits and two aircraft were lost.

There were attacks before and after June 4 at Midway costing the Japanese Combined Fleet other ships. However, the loss of these four heavy carriers achieved by the incomparable skill, fortitude, and valor of these few men proved lethal.

One could easily paraphrase Winston Churchill to say never have so many who fought in the Pacific owed so much to so few. Not counting the B-17’s, about 370 flyers attacked the Japanese in around 180 aircraft of which nearly 90 were lost resulting in about 190 deaths. Walter Lord and Gordon W. Prange considered this an incredible, miraculous victory. For Mitsuo Fuchida and Masatake Okumiya, it was the battle that doomed Japan.

USNI Blog: http://blog.usni.org/?s=Midway

USNI Search: http://www.usni.org/search_google.asp Composition U.S. forces

http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq81-5.htm

Action Report: USS Hornet (CV-8) Midway http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/ships/logs/CV/cv8-Midway.html

Battle of Midway, Commanding Officer, USS Yorktown, report of 18 June 1942 http://www.patriotfiles.com/index.php?name=Sections&req=viewarticle&artid=1096&page=1

Battle of Midway: 4-7 June 1942, Online Action Reports: Commanding Officer, USS Enterprise, Serial 0133 of 8 June 1942 http://www.history.navy.mil/docs/wwii/mid6.htm

MK XIII AERIAL TORPEDO http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=1035 http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WTUS_WWII.htm

Martin B-26 Marauder http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-26_Marauder

Midway Film by John ford http://video.staged.com/localshops/ww_iirare_film__midway__directed_by_john_ford

Valor: Marauders at Midway http://www.airforce-magazine.com/MagazineArchive/Pages/1986/April%201986/0486valor.aspx


TOPICS: Education; History; Military/Veterans
KEYWORDS: battleofmidway; ijn; nimitz; usnavy; vanity
This week marks the anniversary of the Battle of Midway, which is near and dear to all us Navy types. In my study of WW II history I read several books about the battle and noted two things of interest among so many others. Unlike other military commanders Nimitz did not seem to surround himself with people he knew previously when he took command in the Pacific. Also it seemed a lot of the flyers who attacked the Japanese carriers perished. Those two observations prompted the letter and essay below.
1 posted on 06/04/2013 11:18:49 AM PDT by Retain Mike
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To: Retain Mike

A miracle helped along by the fact that we could read all their coded messages.


2 posted on 06/04/2013 11:20:49 AM PDT by DManA
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To: DManA

Yep, and some TBF pilots with more guts than I’ll ever know.


3 posted on 06/04/2013 11:22:40 AM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: Billthedrill

I read the Japanese were amazed at their bravery.


4 posted on 06/04/2013 11:24:03 AM PDT by DManA
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To: Retain Mike

WW II in the Pacific was decided w/in the space of 1/2 hour @ the Battle of Midway.


5 posted on 06/04/2013 11:27:16 AM PDT by US Navy Vet (Go Packers! Go Rockies! Go Boston Bruins! See, I'm "Diverse"!)
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To: DManA
I read the Japanese were amazed at their bravery.

That's two of us.

5.56mm

6 posted on 06/04/2013 11:27:41 AM PDT by M Kehoe
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To: M Kehoe

Reality contradicted the propaganda they had been feed about Americans.


7 posted on 06/04/2013 11:31:24 AM PDT by DManA
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To: Retain Mike

Good article! Thanks. We owe those guys a LOT.

Have you read “Shattered Sword”? I highly recommend it for insight into the battle from the Japanese angle.

http://www.shatteredswordbook.com/


8 posted on 06/04/2013 11:31:39 AM PDT by Nervous Tick (S)
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To: DManA
Good afternoon.

What did Ayn Rand say? Paraphrasing: You can avoid reality, but you can't avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.

Kinda like democRATs/socialists/marxists/progressives (sorry for the redundancy) today.

5.56mm

9 posted on 06/04/2013 11:36:09 AM PDT by M Kehoe
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To: Retain Mike

BTTT


10 posted on 06/04/2013 11:43:31 AM PDT by NEWwoman (God Bless America)
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To: Nervous Tick

Yep, anyone that hasn’t read “Shattered Sword” doesn’t really know anything about Midway.

In sum, Midway was no miracle. We won Midway because we were better across the board. Better ships, better aircraft, better damage control, etc.

And we weren’t really outnumbered in the key things that matter (total aircraft,etc.) They had one more CV but we had three CVs and an additional unsinkable CV (Midway.)

The really interesting thing is that even if we’d lost the Naval battle, it’s overwhelmingly likely the huge numbers of well-trained, heavily-armed, and dug-in Marines on Midway would have annihilated the Japanese invasion force and they could not have captured the island.


11 posted on 06/04/2013 11:45:52 AM PDT by Strategerist
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To: Strategerist

Midway and Battle of the Bulge are probably the two greatest American victories under trying circumstances in both World Wars. Both Germany and Japan made the mistake of thinking our troops were weak and couldn’t handle adversity.

Walter Lord’s book is probably the best account of Midway I have read. Battle: The Story of the Bulge is the best on that battle. Both are amazing accounts of bravery, skill and luck (both good and bad) that were part of these amazing victories.


12 posted on 06/04/2013 11:50:54 AM PDT by shoedog
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To: US Navy Vet

I get your point, but had the US lost its entire Pacific fleet at Midway, we would still have won the war.

Would have taken longer, but would have made no difference in the outcome.

On December 8, 1941 Churchill celebrated the defeat of the Axis. On that day it was all over but the shouting.

Which is not to say that the eventual victory was not due to the valor and sacrifice of a great many good men. Only that Allied victory was certain unless the US were to abandon the war.


13 posted on 06/04/2013 11:53:17 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Retain Mike
FWIW, Freeper LS has written a novel, Halsey's Bluff, which assumes that the Japanese won the Battle of Midway, and Halsy contrived to stop their further advance. In my opinion, very interesting and exciting reading. Available from Amazon. (Full disclosure: LS and I were colleagues at University of Dayton.)
14 posted on 06/04/2013 11:53:24 AM PDT by JoeFromSidney ( New book: RESISTANCE TO TYRANNY. Buy from Amazon.)
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To: Strategerist

Who wrote that, would be interested to read.


15 posted on 06/04/2013 11:53:57 AM PDT by shoedog
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To: Retain Mike
WWII TBF-1 veteran remembers
16 posted on 06/04/2013 11:55:25 AM PDT by pabianice
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To: shoedog

http://www.amazon.com/Shattered-Sword-Untold-Battle-Midway/dp/1574889249

Written by Parshall and Tully.

Relies heavily on a lot of recently-translated Japanese material.

Other thing of note is that there were no aircraft on the decks of any of the Japanese carriers when they were bombed and sunk.


17 posted on 06/04/2013 11:57:15 AM PDT by Strategerist
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To: Retain Mike
I get a kick out of the names the Japanese gave some of their warships. At Midway, the aircraft carriers sunk were the Akagi (Red Castle, a mountain in central Japan), Hiryu (Flying Dragon), Soryu (Green Dragon) and Kaga (Increased Joy).
18 posted on 06/04/2013 12:01:02 PM PDT by Fiji Hill
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To: Sherman Logan

NO If we had lost our ENTIRE Fleet @ Midway then Pearl Harbor would have been UNTENABLE and we would have been FORCED to conduct ALL of WW II in the Pacific from either San Diego or San Pedro and WW II in the Pacific would have taken WELL into 1946, 1947 or Early 1948.
“but would have made no difference in the outcome” OK JUST HOW MANY more US and Allied(UK, NZ, Aust) Troops, Sailors Airman and Marines would have died because of the extension of the War?


19 posted on 06/04/2013 12:03:08 PM PDT by US Navy Vet (Go Packers! Go Rockies! Go Boston Bruins! See, I'm "Diverse"!)
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To: Retain Mike

I did not know B-17s were involved at Midway.


20 posted on 06/04/2013 12:03:10 PM PDT by jaydubya2
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To: Retain Mike
I excerpted a few paragraphs from A Dawn Like Thunder - The True Story of Torpedo Eight by Robert Mrazek. Its long, but we can't forget these guys and today is an anniversary...

As the Zeros swirled madly around the Devastators, it seemed to Tex Gay that he was flying in slow motion. The enemy fighters appeared to have three times his speed, and were darting in and out of their tight formation like backcountry prairie falcons.

Up ahead to his right he saw one of the Devastators drop like a hurtling stone into the sea, its two man crew gone in an instant. It happened so fast that Tex had no idea whose plane it was. A few seconds later another Devastator went down on his left.

"Was that a Zero or one of our planes?" came commander Waldron's voice on the radio.

Tex radioed back that it was a Devastator.

The Zeroes were concentrating on the lead planes in the formation as Torpedo Eight continued boring in towards the nearest Japanese carriers. Tex tried to keep his Devastator steady so that his crewman, Bob Huntington, has a clear and stable field of fire. That also made them easier prey.

He watched as another of the Devastators blew up in a shower of flame and debris. They were past the airborn wreckage a moment later. The dwindling formation was still miles from the carriers when yet another torpedo plane did a slow half roll and crash into the sea on its back, disintegrating when it hit the water.

Bob Huntington came on the intercom -"Lets go back and help, sir" he said.

There was nothing they could do to help. Tex could only press on with the attack, even if they were the last ones left. Those were the Skipper's orders. There would be time for mourning the losses later.

Two Zeroes moved in to attack him, one from behind and the other from the port side. He could feel bullets thudding into the armor plate behind his bucket seat. A second pattern raked his instrument panel and blasted several holes in his windshield.

He heard Huntington cry out on the intercom. Turning his head for a quick look, he saw him slumped down in his seat, motionless. When he turned forward again, the Devastator that had been flying next to him had disappeared.

In the distance, Tex saw that the carriers had swung west, heading away from them to reduce their target profile. Shoving the throttle forward, he watched the air speed indicator slowly begin to climb, Waldron's voice was still coming through his earphones, fast a furious.

"There's two fighters in the water," the Skipper had radioed at one point. "See that splash... I'd give a million to know who'd done that."

In the tail compartment of his Dauntless dive bomber far to the north, Leroy Quillen was listening to Waldron's excited words. He wondered why no one in the group was responding to Waldron's calls.

"My two wingmen are going in," came Waldron's voice one last time.

Then it was his turn.

The Skipper's plane was out in front of the remaining Devastators, all alone except for the attacking Zeroes. As Tex watched, Waldron's plane suddenly burst into flames. Fire quickly enveloped the fuselage, and the plane began gliding down towards the sea, trailing a thick cloud of smoke and fire.

The Skipper suddenly stood up in the blazing cockpit as if he were riding a fiery chariot. In the plane's final moments, he thrust his leg out onto the right wing. Then the plane hit the water and was gone.

21 posted on 06/04/2013 12:11:15 PM PDT by skeeter
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To: Billthedrill
Yep, and some TBF pilots with more guts than I’ll ever know.

Greatest act of courage I ever heard of in WWII was during the Battle of Leyte Gulf when the USS Johnston [commanded by Ernest Evans] and the USS Hoel, both destroyer excorts, relentlessly attacked Japanese battleships that were bearing down on the Leyte beachhead ...

22 posted on 06/04/2013 12:14:00 PM PDT by Lmo56 (If ya wanna run with the big dawgs - ya gotta learn to piss in the tall grass ...)
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To: Retain Mike

Great post!


23 posted on 06/04/2013 12:17:29 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: Retain Mike

The turning point in the Pacific theater. Valiant fighting that day, for sure!


24 posted on 06/04/2013 12:19:38 PM PDT by al_c (http://www.blowoutcongress.com)
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To: DManA

A miracle helped along by the fact that we could read all their coded messages:

http://www.navalhistory.org/2013/06/04/navy-cryptology-and-the-battle-of-midway-our-finest-hour

Navy Cryptology and the Battle of Midway: Our Finest Hour

A special feature of the BATTLE OF MIDWAY ROUNDTABLE

by LCDR Philip H. Jacobsen, USN-Ret

(Editor’s note: the following is the text of an address given by LCDR Jacobsen to a gathering of Naval Security Group personnel at San Diego in 2000. It has been edited slightly for clarity and to better suit this format.)

The Advent of U.S. Naval Cryptology

Although my part in the Battle of Midway was very small, I appreciate this opportunity to relate to you some of the more important achievements of my contemporary naval cryptologists that made the success of the Battle of Midway possible. As a current member of the Naval Security Group, you can take pride in the great accomplishments of your predecessors, not only related to the Battle of Midway but long before World War II as well as throughout World War II.

There are not many naval cryptologic veterans alive today that were involved in providing the communications intelligence information that gave our inferior forces on land, sea and especially in the air the equalizer of knowing the composition of enemy forces, and when and where those huge Japanese forces would attack U.S. territory under Admiral Yamamoto’s grandiose invasion plan. This crucial communications intelligence information, when combined with the heroic actions of fighting forces under the brilliant command of Admiral Nimitz, led to the great U.S. victory in the Battle of Midway.

The above is just part of this great story. Go to the link for the rest of the story: http://www.navalhistory.org/2013/06/04/navy-cryptology-and-the-battle-of-midway-our-finest-hour


25 posted on 06/04/2013 12:38:12 PM PDT by Grampa Dave ('How empty and dead' were they to let Chris Stevens, one of them , die for 'Obama-Clinton fiction?')
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To: Grampa Dave
“Islands of Destiny,” by historian John Prados covers the true turning point of the Pacific War. The Solomons Campaign of 1942-43 saw the real defeat of the Imperial Navy. Japan had quite a bit of fight left after Midway.
26 posted on 06/04/2013 12:42:13 PM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks (NRA Life Member)
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To: US Navy Vet
OK JUST HOW MANY more US and Allied(UK, NZ, Aust) Troops, Sailors Airman and Marines would have died because of the extension of the War?

Tens of thousands certainly. Perhaps hundreds of thousands. Even once we had massive superiority on the sea it took us years and a lot of lives to dig them out. Had we lost that many more would we have had the will to do it? I would like to think so... but would we? Or once we had to nuke, how many more Japanese would we have had to bomb? Had they not been losing for so long they might have had hope to not give up with just two bombs.
27 posted on 06/04/2013 12:57:19 PM PDT by TalonDJ
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To: Retain Mike

the key was a hand full of sailors breaking the jap naval code indicating Midway was next on the list. I joined this group in 1947 right out of boot camp and spent 27 years in a very interesting role.


28 posted on 06/04/2013 1:02:49 PM PDT by spookie
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To: Strategerist

“The battle is won, or lost, before the first arrow is fired.”

That said, flying 100 mph with Zeros on your tail......those were men to be proud of.


29 posted on 06/04/2013 1:05:40 PM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: DManA

The coded messages basically let them know Midway was the target. Beyond that small starting place, it was basically guts and skill of the aircrews.
The codebreaking didn’t lead our planes to the Jap fleet, etc. The location and attack on that ememy fleet was pure naval skill.
The Japs were never found via radar or anything else.

The codebreaking kept the attack on Midway from being a surprise, but did little beyond that.


30 posted on 06/04/2013 1:17:33 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: Retain Mike
This thread could use some illustrations.


31 posted on 06/04/2013 1:17:37 PM PDT by Charles Martel (Endeavor to persevere...)
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To: spookie

Read this:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1612510604/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i02?ie=UTF8&psc=1


32 posted on 06/04/2013 1:48:32 PM PDT by US Navy Vet (Go Packers! Go Rockies! Go Boston Bruins! See, I'm "Diverse"!)
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To: Retain Mike

An interesting note I read on Midway and I’m sorry I don’t have the source. I believe it was the carrier Akagi that was sunk with all the Japanese aircraft attack footage from Pearl Harbor. The footage never made it’s way back to the mainland.


33 posted on 06/04/2013 2:01:09 PM PDT by PA Engineer (Liberate America from the Occupation Media.)
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To: PA Engineer

There was also a journalist aboard Akagi who filmed Kaga while she was under attack, obviously oblivious to the fact his own ship would be hit a minute later. That film didn’t survive the battle, either.


34 posted on 06/04/2013 2:14:24 PM PDT by skeeter
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To: jaydubya2
I did not know B-17s were involved at Midway.

I used to play the "Midway" board game. IIRC, the B-17 factor was a die roll every so often (aka "sortie"), while Midway Island was still considered functional, that is.

35 posted on 06/04/2013 2:25:57 PM PDT by Calvin Locke
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To: Billthedrill

I think you mean TBD’s ...the TBD replacement the TBF had just come in to service at the time of the battle and I believe only 3 were rushed to midway flying off the island itself. .none off the carriers


36 posted on 06/04/2013 2:47:12 PM PDT by tophat9000 (American is Barack Oaken)
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To: tophat9000

You are entirely correct - that looked funny when I reread it. Mea culpa and good catch.


37 posted on 06/04/2013 2:51:12 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: Retain Mike

Make no mistake in reading this reply, Midway was a great victory on a shoestring by greatly out-numbered US Forces, but it also well illustrated Japanese Admiral Yamamoto’s well known prediction of 6 to 12 months of great success followed by Japanese failure. This was the absolute nadir of the US Navy while also being the near height of the Imperial Japan Navy yet the US was only starting its engine while Japan was already near maximum effort.

It took only till 1943 before the US alone was outproducing Japan in all war production areas and mid-1944 before it was outproducing EVERY other Axis or Allied composite. By late 1944 the US Navy had cancelled more warships than all other countries had in service and it was said with more than a little truth that you could fly a Piper Cub from San Francisco to Tokyo by landing on the outbound USN Carriers.

It is one of the things that keeps me from drinking myself senseless over our current condition, we have been down so many times in our history yet followed the depths with new heights. We shall (pray God) do this again!


38 posted on 06/04/2013 3:00:17 PM PDT by SES1066 (Government is NOT the reason for my existence but it is the road to our ruin!)
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To: DManA

I’ll have to find it somewhere, but I believe one Japanese Captain stated something along the lines of “We were lied to, they do know bushido”.

Only Yamamoto was not suprised as he had spent time stateside.


39 posted on 06/04/2013 3:09:39 PM PDT by reed13k (For evil to triumph it is only necessary for good men to do nothing.)
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To: tophat9000

Four TBFs flew from Midway to attack the carriers, two returned.


40 posted on 06/04/2013 3:18:02 PM PDT by skeeter
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To: reed13k

Admiral Kusaka wrote afterwards about a mortally hit B26 that charged the bridge of the Akagi, missing it by feet & causing the admiral and staff to hit the deck. It crashed beyond the ship but Kusaka admitted he was shaken by the realization that the Americans were as committed as any Japanese.


41 posted on 06/04/2013 3:21:03 PM PDT by skeeter
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To: Retain Mike

"All your flat tops are belong to us."

42 posted on 06/04/2013 3:23:16 PM PDT by Flag_This (Real presidents don't bow.)
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To: DesertRhino

Beyond that small starting place,

Small starting place? There would never have been a battle without it. The japs would have taken Midway without hardly a fight.


43 posted on 06/04/2013 4:48:55 PM PDT by DManA
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To: skeeter

I remember that very same narrative. What uncomparable courage.


44 posted on 06/04/2013 5:30:35 PM PDT by Retain Mike
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To: skeeter

Yea could not remember if 3 or 4...oddly they were attach to torpedo 8 the TBD squadron off the Hornet that was wiped out


45 posted on 06/04/2013 9:05:44 PM PDT by tophat9000 (American is Barack Oaken)
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To: US Navy Vet

The Pacific War was decided on 12-7-41.

When Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, there would only be one outcome; the only uncertainty was how long it would take.

Yamamoto knew before the ships even sailed that Japan would lose the war.


46 posted on 11/16/2013 9:21:50 PM PST by SaintsWillWin
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To: SaintsWillWin

Check this book out(it will give you a whole NEW prospective on WW II): http://www.amazon.com/Operation-Snow-Soviet-Triggered-Harbor/dp/B00D9TE32A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1384694908&sr=8-1&keywords=operation+snow


47 posted on 11/17/2013 5:28:13 AM PST by US Navy Vet (Go Packers! Go Rockies! Go Boston Bruins! See, I'm "Diverse"!)
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