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Terri's Fight - (Daily Thread/Updates)November 1-2, 2003
Various | November 1, 2003 | sweetliberty

Posted on 11/01/2003 7:37:41 AM PST by sweetliberty

TERRI'S FIGHT
(Daily Thread 2 - November 1-2, 2003)

Link back to thread 2 - October 30-31)

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Contained in thread 2:

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Contact information for the ACLJ, link for Chris Ferrara's legal brief, Senate Amendment to Terri's Bill, Ken Connor of the Family Research Council joins fight for Terri's Law, contact information for law enforcement and Judge Demers, Republic's impassioned letter to Judge Demers, Schiavo's claim that Terri's surgery was a success, link to CBN interview with the Schindlers (Oct 31), state's medical directors come out against Terri's Law, more links to testimony and legal debate, short bio on Judge Demers, update from the vigil and a doctor's exam report on Terri from 1990. Wacky Sam has also graciously offered to provide server space for documents to be kept to prevent their loss form other sources.

There is also a lot of discussion and links dealing with the seeming network of connnections between the girlfriend, Jodi, various insurance business links and possibly Terri's new doctor. In addition, several questions are addressed regarding Michael Schiavo's hiding of assets and tricks that may have been employed to throw off investigative efforts. Some of the FReepers have been doing their homework on the unholy alliances in the case. Let's keep working to connect the dots and expose the results. Also contained in thread 2 is some of Schiavo's litigious history, a bit more information on George Felos and more on Jay Wolfson. Some information on the doctors involved in Terri's case can be found on this thread as well. Since there are so many posts and links to the above mentioned topics, the best thing to do is to browse the thread.

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Click on pic for Terri's website

This thread serves as a place for posting all new general information and references, along with links following Terri's case, plus information on cable news and talk radio shows dealing with the issue, court cases and press releases. This is also the place to post contact information, prayers and general discussion.

If you have something that qualifies as BREAKING NEWS or FRONT PAGE NEWS, please post it on a separate thread in that category in order to give it maximum exposure and then post a link to the article/thread here so that it will be included in the next update of links. Also, if you post links to articles from original sources and there is also a thread on FR, please link to the FR thread. Many original links become corrupt over time and we want to be able to access the information at will.

Thanks again to everyone for all your hard work.

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Latest Threads On Terri's Case

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Terri's Parents Want Their Voice Heard in Life-or-Death Case

EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW - Schindlers Respond to Michael Schiavo's Larry King Love-Fest - PART1 (Listed In Previous List, but added here to have both parts together)

EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW - Schindlers Respond to Michael Schiavo's Larry King Love-Fest - PART 2

Michael Challenges Terri's Law, Wants Guardian Appointment Delayed

An Execution In Florida — Terri Schiavo On Death Row

TERRI SCHIAVO: Woman's plight raises questions

Majority Would Remove Schiavo's Feeding Tube (Fox News)

Awareness Seen in Vegetative Patients

Professor Appointed to Probe Schiavo Case

Ending Life Humanely (Ed Koch on Terri Schiavo)


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Government; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: attorneyfromhell; daily; euthanasia; florida; forcesofevil; georgefelos; guardianfromhell; hino; merchantsofdeath; michaelschiavo; reallifeghouls; righttolife; schiavo; schindler; terri; terrischiavo
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-50 ... 301-350351-400401-450451-455 next last
To: Randjuke; cyn
But, what happens when there is much evidence that the government (ONE judge, that is) HAS already screwed it up?

Who protects the innocent when the "family" (that is, a "husband" who is trying to kill his wife) IS the one "screwing" up?

If a husband is beating huis wife or kids, the STATE is legally required to step in. In a clear suicide case - where the "victim" is actively trying to kill himself, the state is STILL required to step in a prevent to suicide.

Here, the ONLY "evidence" that she wanted a DNR order is the husband trying to kill her.
401 posted on 11/02/2003 5:37:18 PM PST by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only support FR by donating monthly, but ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: Randjuke
The entry, as you say, of the legislative and executive branches of the government into this case was at the DEMAND of the governed (you know, we the people and all that) that they perform one of the few functions that they are commissioned to do by the Constitution, which is to protect the right to life of citizens.

What you are suggesting is that it is the right of a family (or in this case a "spouse" with blatant conflicts of interest) to make a determination about whether a person's "quality of life" is such that they can be justifiably terminated. The "government" from the courtroom had already WAY overstepped its bounds by, in effect, ruling that murder is acceptable in some instances. By what other means would you suggest that the courts, a branch of government, by the way, be reined in? Or are you one of those people who thinks it is perfectly okay to redefine "life" for political and economic expediency?

This is not an individual who is terminally ill and there have been conflicting medical opinions regarding Terri's capacity to be rehabilitated. She is not in a coma and being sustained by artificial means. We are not talking about someone who is brain dead and on a ventilator, who has a written directive regarding the use of such measures. We are talking about a realtively young woman who responds to her environment and who seems to have an amazing will to live in spite of all the efforts to kill her. She has been denied the most basic therapies and even treatment for illness over the past 10 years. The monster who poses as a husband (despite having another "family,") has denied her even basic sensory stimulation and hygiene.

I say thank God for Governor Bush and the legislators actually listening to the will of the people and thank God that there are still some of us who can tell the difference between forcing someone to live who is dying and killing someone who is fighting to live. Had Governor Bush not done what he did, as a man of conscience and as someone in a position of authority, her blood would have been on his hands. He has the power to pardon a murderer on death row, but no authority to stay the execution of a woman who has done nothing wrong? Isn't there anything about that that seems distorted to you?

402 posted on 11/02/2003 5:46:12 PM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: sweetliberty
George J. Felos is know for his "New Age" mysticism, as was the late Sen. Alan Cranston, D-CA.
403 posted on 11/02/2003 5:49:12 PM PST by Theodore R.
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To: Lion in Winter
Another article posted.

Husband challenges law that keeps his wife alive

404 posted on 11/02/2003 5:49:27 PM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: sweetliberty
Or are you one of those people who thinks it is perfectly okay to redefine "life" for political and economic expediency?

Actually I'm one of those people who agrees with you most of the time. If you don't want to have a civil discussion on this that's fine. Sorry I posted.

405 posted on 11/02/2003 6:39:38 PM PST by Randjuke
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To: Randjuke
It wasn't meant as an attack. I'm sorry if you took it that way. This case just really has my nerves frazzled. There is such a clear right and wrong and most of the side arguments and discussions around this case, while interesting and having need of being considered for the purpose of possible future cases, do not alter in the slightest what the right decision is here. It is just that the wrong one is wrong at so many levels.
406 posted on 11/02/2003 6:44:54 PM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: iowamomforfreedom
iowamomforfreedom:
Thanks for setting me straight on the Schiavo names...LOL.. Ive been on the computer for toooo long...LOL

Info on Michael R Schiavo:
He grew up in Levittown, Pa., in suburban Philadelphia, the son of Bill and Clara Schiavo. His father worked a steady
white-collar job as a safety engineer for AT&T. His mother was a stay-at-home mom who could make meatloaf 100
different ways - all of them good.
His brothers are, Bill Schiavo Jr., Scott Schiavo, Brian Schiavo (and one other brother) can't find his name.

Now check out this info.. it may or may not be relevent
See the last entry for William and Clara Schiavo, looks like they are all for deeds to property.

The number of Pages are estimated for documents where the Pages value is marked with *.
Order
From
To
Date
Document Type
County
Instrument Number
Book/Page
Pages

SCHIAVO
WILLIAM F
05/14/2003
PROBATE
DOCUMENT
PINELLAS
0000000003196306
12747/943
5

8975/1175
22
Description: CANTERBURY CHASE UN 2

SCHIAVO
WILLIAM F JR;
SCHIAVO
WILLIAM
FRANCIS SR;
SCHIAVO
WILLIAM F
MILLER
MARCIA
C
03/27/2003
DEED
PINELLAS
0000000003121376
12628/593
1
Description: LT 175 CANTERBURY CHASE UN 2

SCHIAVO
STEPHEN;
SCHIAVO
WILLIAM
FRANCIS SR;
SCHIAVO
WILLIAM F
MILLER
MARCIA
C
03/27/2003
DEED
PINELLAS
0000000003121375
12628/592
1
Description: LT 175 CANTERBURY CHASE UN 2

SCHIAVO
WILLIAM F;
SCHIAVO
DOVAN;
SCHIAVO
BRIAN;
SCHIAVO
WILLIAM
FRANCIS SR
MILLER
MARCIA
C
03/27/2003
DEED
PINELLAS
0000000003121374
12628/591
1
Description: LT 175 CANTERBURY CHASE UN 2

SCHIAVO
WILLIAM
FRANCIS SR;
SCHIAVO
WILLIAM F;
SCHIAVO
SCOTT
vs
MILLER
MARCIA
C
03/27/2003
DEED
PINELLAS
0000000003121372
12628/588
1
Description: LT 175 CANTERBURY CHASE UN 2

SCHIAVO
WILLIAM
FRANCIS SR
DEC;
SCHIAVO
WILLIAM F
DECD;
SCHIAVO
MICHAEL R;
SCHIAVO
MICHAEL R PR
vs
MILLER
MARCIA
C
03/27/2003
DEED
PINELLAS
0000000003121371
12628/587
1
Description: LT 175 CANTERBURY CHASE UN 2

SCHIAVO
WILLIAM F
06/03/2003
PROBATE
DOCUMENT
PINELLAS
0000000003226269
12793/1515
1
Description: 0203378ES

STARK PAUL D
JR;
STARK
KATHRYN D vs
SCHIAVO
CLARLA
MARIE;
SCHIAVO
WILLIAM
FRANCIS
SR
08/14/1992
DEED
PINELLAS
BP00000080000229
8000/229
2
Description: 175 CANTERBURY CHASE UN 2 PL 66/98




407 posted on 11/02/2003 6:54:05 PM PST by Snykerz
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To: sweetliberty
OK, sweetliberty, no problem. For me government's role in this is a big issue, not just a side issue as it is for you. I have only marginally more trust in the legislative branch than I do the judicial, ultimately I like the government to stay out of personal decisions as much as possible. This case will end up in the courts again and the decision may have far-reaching implications that I do not welcome. Once government gets a foot in a door it's very unusual for it to decide to back away, generally they will continue to encroach.

Most of the time in a decision such as this a family is able to come to a decision replicating what they believe the patient would have decided had she been able (most of the time death is fairly imminent - this case is different I know). What I do NOT want is the government or courts making a "one size fits all" decision, taking away the decision making from the family.
408 posted on 11/02/2003 7:24:14 PM PST by Randjuke
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To: Randjuke
With all due respect, I think that Terri's law makes it difficult for the government to step in again except when certain conditions are met. Part of those conditions is that two "sides" of family members disagree about whether or not the feeding tube should have been removed in the first place. The law wasn't originally designed to cover the situation when the families disagreed. It was intended to give them permission when they did (agree).
409 posted on 11/02/2003 7:44:10 PM PST by Ohioan from Florida
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To: Ohioan from Florida
With all due respect, I think that Terri's law makes it difficult for the government to step in again except when certain conditions are met.

One of which would be that the government invent a time machine, since the governor's authority is self-expiring except that stays issued while the law is in effect will remain so until explicitly recinded.

410 posted on 11/02/2003 8:01:09 PM PST by supercat (Why is it that the more "gun safety" laws are passed, the less safe my guns seem?)
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To: Ohioan from Florida
With all due respect, I think that Terri's law makes it difficult for the government to step in again except when certain conditions are met. Part of those conditions is that two "sides" of family members disagree about whether or not the feeding tube should have been removed in the first place. The law wasn't originally designed to cover the situation when the families disagreed. It was intended to give them permission when they did (agree).

Who will set the parameters on intervention? Traditionally one spouse makes the decisions for the other in the case of incompetence, maybe it's appropriate to take that power away in this case but will it be in the next one? My experiences with court-appointed guardians have not always been positive, they are not necessarily people you want trusting lives with. Sometimes they are more poorly equipped than the families.

Right now this is a "special case" but you know that there will be more, and lawyers will try to broaden the definitions of appropriate cases and find judges that agree with them. Maybe this is all inevitable but I don't have to be happy about it.

411 posted on 11/02/2003 8:13:35 PM PST by Randjuke
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To: Republic
Bad news, we are losing it's at....

Yes.....47%
No......53%

The forces of murder & death don't want to lose this poll
for some reason. I wonder if Micheal & new wife are voting
like crazy ???

FR Time !
412 posted on 11/02/2003 8:17:17 PM PST by Orlando (Is Micheal paying child support ? What is MS past criminal records ?)
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To: Randjuke
Well, I do see your point, and I'm not terribly happy that the law had to be tweaked, but the judge was clearly overlooking things he shouldn't have been. In a life or death situation, what recourse did Terri have after they'd already yanked the tube out? Were we just supposed to sit idly by, and let them not only starve but dehydrate her as well? Why didn't they just go ahead and put a pillow over her face? I mean, oxygen is just as necessary as food and water. I'm not trying to harass you, I'm just frustrated with the whole legal system. It's supposed to work, and it doesn't. I thought that's when the legislators are supposed to fix it.
413 posted on 11/02/2003 8:27:22 PM PST by Ohioan from Florida
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To: sweetliberty
I agree.

Besides-I still love the comment a poster made about how judges who are facing a grumbling and unhappy person as a result of following the law, usually say "You don't LIKE the law, then CHANGE IT!'

And, is EXACTLY what the legislators and govenor DID per the WILL of the people.

It's called PUTTING the SPIRIT back into the law. It is called representative government. And it is the way we correct LAWS that are not deliberate enough to cover the rights of ALL PARTIES involved.

Now there is a LAW in Florida, that MINUS a written directive or living will, PROTECTS a person from family members who might be unscrupulous-LIARS!

414 posted on 11/02/2003 8:45:02 PM PST by Republic
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To: Orlando
I have already voted....but hope it turns around. I was so infuriated by the comment eleanor clift had on the page about our troops in Iraq I wanted to go after her (online) but ya have to register...lol
415 posted on 11/02/2003 8:52:30 PM PST by Republic
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To: Republic
Amen Rep, and very well put!
416 posted on 11/02/2003 8:53:00 PM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: Republic
Age Group 14-17
Yes 0%
No 100%

Age Group 18-34
Yes 14%
No 86%

Age Group 35-49
Yes 56%
No 44%

Age Group 50-64
Yes 50%
No 50%

Age Group 65+
Yes 56%
No 44%

417 posted on 11/02/2003 9:01:02 PM PST by Beach_Babe
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To: tutstar
Age Group 14-17
Yes
0%
No
100%


Age Group 18-34
Yes
14%
No
86%


Age Group 35-49
Yes
56%
No
44%


Age Group 50-64
Yes
51%
No
49%


Age Group 65+
Yes
56%
No
44%




That's pathetic....
418 posted on 11/02/2003 9:01:41 PM PST by Krodg (I believe, I pray and I fight.)
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To: msmagoo
"I see a need for a law passed to protect what I *thought* was an inalienable right - the right to life over death."

Yeah, silly us to believe that it actually means what it so clearly says.

419 posted on 11/02/2003 9:10:17 PM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: Orlando
"I heard he has a 14 yr old child ? Still not confirm."

The person who wrote the letter to the editor making that claim emailed me saying only that she wasn't at liberty at this time to say any more. I got the impression that she would when she could. I guess it really makes no difference anyway, as far as the disposition of this case. It just goes to the quality of Michael Schiavo's character, and we have already seen, without the factoring in of another adulterous and "fruitful" relationship, that he has none.

420 posted on 11/02/2003 9:15:32 PM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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Don't give up

by Jon Sherman

Don't give up.

That's what Margaret Logan of Titusville would tell the parents of Florida's Terri Schiavo.

"If I could talk with Terri's parents in Florida," Margaret said, "I would tell them to never give up and give them all the encouragement and support I could."

Schiavo, who is severely brain damaged, is in the midst of a legal debate over whether her husband has the right to have her feeding tube removed. Her husband claims it was Schiavo's wish to die if she was to ever be in her current condition. Schiavo's parents want their daughter's care to continue, citing reactions from their daughter as hope she can recover. Florida Gov. Jeb Bush used recently passed law to keep Schiavo's husband from removing her feeding tube.

Severely injured in an auto accident more than 20 years ago herself, Margaret and her husband, Doug's, daughter, Virginia, is very much an integral part of her family today. She lives at home in Titusville, exercises, swims, goes to the theater and rides horses. Much of the credit for the progress Virginia has made can be attributed to her parents. Margaret, a retired high school English teacher, said she has devoted oceans of time to Virginia.

There are some major similarities in the cases of Virginia and Schiavo. Both spent long periods of time in comas. In Virginia's case, it was more than a year. Both the Logans and Terri's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, faced legal difficulties with their sons-in-law. Both daughters were the victims of severe brain damage.

In February 1982, Virginia was 29 and married. She and her husband at the time were living in Lordstown, Ohio. On that February night, the car the couple was riding in struck a utility pole. On impact, Virginia was thrown from the car, her head striking the metal door frame.

Doctors told the Logans Virginia had suffered a closed-head injury with frontal lobe damage. But that wasn't the only fight the Logans faced. They had problems with Virginia's husband, as well as the way the Ohio law was written.

"In Ohio," Margaret explained, "everything is controlled by the husband; the woman has no rights in this kind of situation."

This meant if the husband didn't want the Logans to visit Virginia, no permission would be given.

Doctors told the family Virginia would survive the accident, but not leave her coma. Margaret took this as a challenge, facing the problem and learning everything possible about it.

While her daughter lay quietly, Margaret began Virgina's rehabilitation by reading books, the first of which was "Ashes in the Wind." Doug did his bit by reading "Uncle Wiggly."

All the time, Margaret would address Virginia's silent, blank face and say, "If you know who I am, squeeze my hand."

Margaret recalled, "I may have been imagining it, but I would swear I could feel her squeezing my hand. You become so grateful for every moment of growth."

When the two of them were together, Margaret talked all the time.

"A lot of it was babble," she said, "nonsense, but I wanted her to know there was somebody there who loved her."

The breakthrough came when Virginia was in a nursing home. Not expecting anything out of the ordinary, but carrying through with her policy of constant talking, Margaret asked if Virginia would like to be wheeled upstairs to look at the fish in a tank at the doctor's office.

"OK," Virginia replied.

Only this and nothing more.

It made Margaret's day.

"I called everybody we knew that I could think of and had them ask Virginia a question that could be answered with 'OK'."

There were sometimes long gaps between outbursts of speech, but there always was progress. Today, Virginia's speech is perfectly understandable.

In one corner of the Logan home is a cross-lateral machine. This device simulates walking by moving the legs. Virginia spends up to two hours a day on it.

"It makes me tired, but it doesn't hurt," Virginia said. "I get energy from it and it relaxes me. It just makes me feel better."

Margaret commented, "Now, she can talk. Even if she has to go to a nursing home, she'll have an advantage over some of the others because she'll be able to talk and respond. She has a quality of life."

Virginia's sister, Jayne Logan, a nurse, considered the progress Virginia has made and reflected, "This is a perfect example of what a mother's love can accomplish."

http://www.titusvilleherald.com/oldlocalthu.html
421 posted on 11/02/2003 9:55:34 PM PST by Krodg (I believe, I pray and I fight.)
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To: Randjuke; dandelion
Terri in 1990 St. Pete Times photo -- before Michael won the lawsuit and she lost.
May Terri achieve her freedom soon after all these years of justice denied.

Below are EXCERPTS -- please see PDF for original from friends of Terri website. Thanks to FL engineer, who found this!

Reports ‘transcribed’ to FreeRepublic

Physical Examination -- 6 - 27 - 90

*patient is awake, eyes are open
*easily startled to her name or when bedrail fell down

*significant amount of tone in the head and neck.
*severe hypertonicity of all four extremities; plantar flexor contractures, some shoulder limitation
*"again, tone is quite significant in all four extremities and difficult to achieve range of motion of the left hip and knee while she is in a supine position."
*she does give eye contact to family members
*she will close her eyes to any threatening response around her face and blink appropriately
*no verbal output during this exam but it has been reported by husband and other family members and therapists over at College Harbor.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Treatment Plan Review from Mediplex rehab, Bradenton, 1/29/91

*Vocalizing when prone in P.T. [physical therapy]
*Occasionally will say "STOP" to nursing during procedures.

*to TR [recreation?] groups. More relaxed to therapists voice, touch (habituation)

422 posted on 11/02/2003 9:56:17 PM PST by cyn (http://www.terrisfight.org)
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2003-04-14 From: Newsday, NY,US
Seeking Right to Death
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/ny-usschi0414.story


Fla. man says wife wouldn't want to live in vegetative state

By Hugo Kugiya
Staff Correspondent

April 14, 2003

St. Petersburg, Fla. -- If he spoke to his wife one last time, Michael Schiavo does not remember. It was a Saturday night, the busiest of the week at the restaurant he managed in Clearwater, Agostino's Ristorante. It was past midnight by the time he closed the restaurant and came home. His wife Terri Schiavo was already asleep.

"I came in the house," he said. "Terri woke up. She heard me. I gave her a kiss goodnight. She gave me a kiss goodnight."

Because they worked opposite schedules, the Schiavos often greeted and parted like this, with a groggy kiss in the late night or early morning.

The temperature was in the 30s, exceptionally cold for Florida, on the night of Feb. 24, 1990. Terri felt the cold easily. She was 26 and, at 5 feet 6 inches, weighed 110 pounds, the trimmest she had ever been. She once weighed 200. She did not lose the weight by exercising, but by adhering to a strict diet. She was very unathletic. Michael said, "She didn't know what sports was."

Michael had become concerned about her weight loss. When they married five years earlier, she weighed about 150 pounds. Now when she took off her clothes, "I could see her bones," Michael said.

He let it cross his mind that she might have an eating disorder. Once after dinner she went into the bathroom, letting the water run the entire time. She told him she was just warming her hands. She was capable of eating large quantities of food, an entire pizza or a giant omelet. She seemed to guzzle iced tea, sometimes a gallon at a time. Her menstrual cycle had become irregular. But Michael said none of this had alarmed him.

She had been to doctors for a benign lump in her breast, a wart on her toe and dizzy spells. She had not become pregnant although she and Michael did not use birth control. But she seemed otherwise healthy. Nothing Michael or Terri knew at the time would have foretold what would happen that night.

In the early morning hours of Feb. 25, 1990, Terri Schiavo collapsed in the hallway outside her bedroom. As Michael remembered it, "I was getting out of bed for some reason and I heard this thud. So I ran out into the hall and I found Terri on the floor." He called 911 and her brother, who lived in the same apartment complex. "I held her in my arms until her brother got there. I rocked her. I didn't know what to do. I was hysterical."

Since that night, Terri has not moved or spoken. Doctors believe she has no cognitive ability -- that she cannot think or feel. Hers is a life of gray, something more than death but less than life. She breathes on her own but needs a gastric feeding tube to drink a slow and steady stream of nutrients similar to baby formula. She is fed all night as she sleeps, from 6 p.m. to 6 a.m.

Within weeks, the Florida Second District Court of Appeal will decide whether she will live or die. Michael, her guardian, wants to remove the feeding tube that keeps her alive because he says it's what she would have wanted. A lower court has already given him permission to do so. Her parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, and her siblings want to keep her alive for more treatment and therapy. They do not believe she is in a permanent vegetative state or that she would want to end her life.

In such cases, relatives who want to keep the patient alive "are not thinking so much about the patient, but themselves," said Dr. Larry Schneiderman, ethics consultant to the University of California, San Diego medical school. "They might have their own agenda, or they're so terribly wrapped in grief. It takes an act of humanity to acknowledge that we all die and come to terms with this. Those are the heroic people, the compassionate people. The ones that won't quit are just being unrealistic."

Nonetheless, in the almost 30 years since a court first adjudicated a patient's legal right to die, judges have rarely approved withdrawal of life support over the objections of a patient's immediate family and the absence of a patient's written instructions.

It is unlikely the state or U.S. Supreme Court will take the case should either party appeal again. So the coming decision is expected to end what has become a 10-year legal battle.

"I think about her every day," Michael said. "I see her once or twice a week. It's heartbreaking. ... Terri's made the same sounds and motions for years. Back when I knew nothing about this, and I'm sitting there watching her, I was encouraged because you grasp for anything. Now, it's like visiting a shell of a person."

When paramedics brought Terri into the emergency room of Northside Hospital and Heart Institute in 1990, she appeared to have had a heart attack. Her brain had been deprived of oxygen for at least 10 minutes. Because she was so young, doctors initially suspected a drug overdose. Conversations with her family ruled it out. The cause of her collapse was never fully determined but was eventually linked to severe potassium depletion, which could have been caused by her diet, but could also have been caused by efforts to resuscitate her. When she emerged from a coma weeks later, the damage done to her brain was obvious.

To the casual observer, she seemed then and now to be very much alive, if not coherent. Her eyes are open and at moments alert. She focuses and stares. She reacts to sounds and objects and people. She moans and wails. She appears to take joy in the sight of her mother.

Doctors cannot account for Terri's every movement and reaction, but the medical orthodoxy is clear about its view: She is in a permanent and irreversible vegetative state, incapable of interpreting the world around her.

"If the brain stem is intact," Dr. Schneiderman said, "their eyes can drift, they react to sounds, their arms and hands move if you hurt them. These are spinal cord reflexes. What makes it so tragic is that loved ones are convinced they're reacting to them."

In the days after her collapse, at the urging of a lawyer friend of Michael's, the Schindlers signed a document making Michael Terri's sole legal guardian -- a decision the Schindlers would later regret.

Six months after her collapse, the family moved Terri to her parents' house, where Michael also had begun living. The family took turns caring for her around the clock. The care became too difficult, so they moved her back to a nursing home.

Doctors were not optimistic about Terri's chances for improvement. They recommended an experimental surgery, and in December 1990, electrodes were implanted in Terri's brain to stimulate dormant brain cells. When no improvement was noticed, the family moved her in July 1991 to the Sabal Palms nursing home in Largo, Fla., where she would live for the next three years.

There, Michael was Terri's most constant companion. He kept her clenched hands dry so they would not become infected. To keep her muscles flexible, Michael and nurses moved her joints and put braces on her legs each day. He braced her head to keep it from falling forward. He brushed her teeth with great difficulty because she often bit down on the toothbrush. He suctioned the saliva and toothpaste from her mouth. He applied her makeup. About that time, Michael enrolled in nursing school, saying he wanted to learn how to take care of Terri.

Her parents visited about once a month, said a nurse, Diane Gomes, who cared for Terri at Palm Gardens nursing home in Largo almost every day from 1994 to 1996. But Michael, Gomes remembered, "was there every day," eight hours a day.

In 1992, Michael sued the doctors who cared for Terri before her collapse. He claimed she might have had an eating disorder, and that had the doctors tested her, they would have detected the potassium imbalance. One doctor settled. Another chose to go to trial. At the trial, in November 1992, Michael spoke optimistically. "I see myself hopefully finishing school and taking care of my wife," he said. "I want to bring my wife home."

His lawyers asked for $12 million for Terri's treatment and care, on the presumption that she would live another 51 years, and $4 million to compensate Michael for the loss of his wife. The jury found the doctor only partially responsible. In the end, the trial and the settlement netted Terri about $700,000 and Michael $300,000.

Michael and the Schindlers would soon become adversaries. On Valentine's Day 1993, they argued about the money. Michael said the Schindlers demanded a share of his award. The Schindlers say Michael refused to spend the money on Terri's treatment. In any case, they never spoke to each other again.

After the argument, Michael took away the Schindlers' privileges to view Terri's medical records. He said he did it out of spite and later regretted it. Three years later, he would restore their access. The Schindlers unsuccessfully sued to remove Michael as Terri's guardian.

In the summer of 1993, Terri developed a urinary tract infection. Doctors suggested Michael not treat the infection, and he agreed, he said. It was the first sign that Michael had given up some hope.

He also revealed for the first time to doctors -- and the Schindlers were informed -- that Terri had told him more than once that she would not want to be kept alive artificially, that the two had promised they would never allow each other to live hooked up to a machine.

When her parents objected, Michael ordered the infection treated.

His visits became less frequent, twice, maybe three times a week. He stayed about an hour at a time. He helped wash Terri's hair and get her dressed.

By 1995, Michael was in love with and living with another woman, whom he had been seeing for about two years. They would eventually have a child, even though Michael stayed legally married to Terri.

In 1997, Michael's mother died from cancer. The following year, Michael petitioned the court for permission to stop artificial feeding. In April 2000, after a probate judge approved the removal of the feeding tube, Michael moved Terri to a Woodside hospice. By then, he had finished nursing school and had started working as a respiratory therapist, the legacy of the years he spent caring for Terri.

"Only after his mother's death did Michael gain the emotional strength to end Terri's life," his lawyer George Felos said.

If the Florida appellate court permits Michael to stop feeding his wife, she will probably die within weeks. For patients already close to death, dehydration and starvation can be a relatively pleasant way to die, doctors say.

Terri's eyes will become dry and bloodshot. Her face will become thin. In the final days, her body will begin shutting down. Her heart will beat faster as her blood volume drops from lack of water. Blood pressure will drop and her hands and feet will become cold and mottled. She will no longer urinate and her kidneys will fail as toxins build up in her body. An infection might set in. Before she dies, she might have seizures or fall into a coma. Eventually, for the second time in her life, her heart will stop.

http://www.evelynmartens.ca/en-newsday-030414.html
423 posted on 11/02/2003 10:09:09 PM PST by Krodg (I believe, I pray and I fight.)
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To: Krodg
That article should be filed in the CRAP file!
424 posted on 11/02/2003 10:16:20 PM PST by Lion in Winter
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To: Krodg; floriduh voter
what a story! thanks for posting that -- http://www.titusvilleherald.com/oldlocalthu.html

Don't give up.

That's what Margaret Logan of Titusville would tell the parents of Florida's Terri Schiavo.

"If I could talk with Terri's parents in Florida," Margaret said, "I would tell them to never give up and give them all the encouragement and support I could."

Good night all -- good night, Terri. We're trying to get you home to your family. Michael -- let go of her! George -- she's NOT a right-to-die terminal 'case'!
425 posted on 11/02/2003 10:20:31 PM PST by cyn (http://www.terrisfight.org)
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To: Lion in Winter
I agree that it is crap...just thought you guys might want to read some of the other lies he was spouting. I thought this part was interesting:

In the early morning hours of Feb. 25, 1990, Terri Schiavo collapsed in the hallway outside her bedroom. As Michael remembered it, "I was getting out of bed for some reason and I heard this thud. So I ran out into the hall and I found Terri on the floor." He called 911 and her brother, who lived in the same apartment complex. "I held her in my arms until her brother got there. I rocked her. I didn't know what to do. I was hysterical."

426 posted on 11/02/2003 10:31:14 PM PST by Krodg (I believe, I pray and I fight.)
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Fla. Judge: Withdraw Life Support

August 8,2001

TAMPA, Fla. (AP) - A judge has again ordered that a comatose woman's feedings be stopped, siding against her parents and in favor of the husband who believes she should be allowed to die.

The ruling by Pinellas Probate Court Judge George Greer instructs Michael Schiavo to tell hospice workers to end his wife's artificial feedings on Aug. 28. Terri Schiavo then would starve to death over a two-week period.

Her parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, are seeking to keep their daughter alive and can file an appeal with the Second District Court of Appeal in Lakeland.

Also, both sides will be back in court Thursday for a hearing on the parents' recent lawsuit against Michael Schiavo. The parents will ask a separate judge to make sure that Terri Schiavo is kept alive while the suit is pending.

Tuesday's ruling "came as a shock to us," said George Felos, Michael Schiavo's attorney. "We didn't know an order was being entered. My client was completely take aback."

The Schindlers' attorneys were not immediately available for comment. Mary Schindler said the family has not had a chance to discuss the order and declined comment until later this week.

Terri Schiavo, 37, has been in a coma for more than 11 years after suffering a heart attack. She left no written instructions on her wishes, but her husband maintains she never would have wanted to be kept on life support.

In April, Greer ordered her feedings stopped after a court battle that ended with U.S. Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy declining to accept the case.

Days later, however, the woman's parents filed the new lawsuit accusing Michael Schiavo of lying about his wife's wishes because he wanted to collect her inheritance and marry another woman.

The appeals court ordered the feeding tube reconnected, pending Greer's reconsideration of the case.

In Tuesday's order, Greer said the Schindlers have shown no new evidence that would change his earlier decision that Terri Schiavo would not have wanted to be kept alive artificially and that she has no chance of recovering basic brain functions.

Copyright 2001 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

http://data.intelihealth.com/pcn/general/00330456.htm


NOTE THE COMMENT FROM FELOS.....
427 posted on 11/02/2003 10:37:37 PM PST by Krodg (I believe, I pray and I fight.)
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To: Snykerz
To my knowledge if you have the info you are looking for you can go directly to the court house and get a copy of document for only a few bucks. These should all me a matter of public record. If someone here lives in Pinellas would be a great service to our cause
428 posted on 11/02/2003 10:38:06 PM PST by fiesti
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To: Krodg
Aside from the obvious nonsense in that article, one thing stands out. Terri is described as being 5'6" and 110 pounds. That's a bit shy of ideal weight for that height, but it isn't enough to make her bones shatter like glass when she falls down.
429 posted on 11/02/2003 10:44:31 PM PST by Graymatter
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To: Graymatter
Here's another interesting part....

By 1995, Michael was in love with and living with another woman, whom he had been seeing for about two years. They would eventually have a child, even though Michael stayed legally married to Terri.

That would have their relationship beginning in 1993...the same year he collected his money and issued a DNR order...

430 posted on 11/02/2003 10:52:28 PM PST by Krodg (I believe, I pray and I fight.)
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To: Krodg; Budge; Pegita; cyn; Ladysmith; Calpernia; Babalu; floriduh voter; dandelion; PleaseNoMore; ..
NEW THREAD!

431 posted on 11/02/2003 11:27:11 PM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: Tax-chick
See post 136
432 posted on 11/03/2003 3:46:27 AM PST by Tax-chick (Due to lack of interest, this tagline has been cancelled.)
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To: sweetliberty
God Bless Terry and you, too, for keeping her in our thoughts and prayers~
433 posted on 11/03/2003 6:06:21 AM PST by buffyt (Can you say President Hillary, Mistress of Darkness? Me Neither!)
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To: tutstar
Dominic Schiavo is married to a Michael A. Schiavo. Is she connected?
434 posted on 11/03/2003 6:09:32 AM PST by TaxRelief (Welcome to the only website dedicated to the preservation of a Freerepublic.)
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To: Orlando
The media should investigate this.

The media won't investigate anything.

It's up to us to investigate and get the research results to them.

435 posted on 11/03/2003 6:11:56 AM PST by TaxRelief (Welcome to the only website dedicated to the preservation of a Freerepublic.)
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To: Aliska
It's the 18-34 group that is strongly anti-Terri. These people are strongly into "quality-of-life" and too young to understand "sanctity-of-life." But the 14-17 group favors letting Terri live, as do the seniors.
436 posted on 11/03/2003 6:30:58 AM PST by Theodore R.
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To: Lion in Winter
Courts gave Schiavo case a full hearing

By Randy Schultz, Palm Beach Post Editor of the Editorial Page
Sunday, November 2, 2003

If you listen only to Gov. Bush and the Legislature talk about Terri Schiavo, you might think that the courts have rushed to end the life of a helpless woman. If you read what the courts actually have done and said, you understand that the governor and Legislature are wrong.

The story line from Tallahassee is loving parents vs. scheming husband, aided by reckless, uncaring judges. To the rescue come a compassionate, moral governor and Legislature. In reality, the cast and the roles don't line up quite so perfectly.

Pinellas County Circuit Judge George Greer has received most of the criticism because he ruled for Michael Schiavo. Reviewing his decisions, however, has been the 2nd Circuit Court of Appeal, which in June entered the ruling that led last month to the removal of Ms. Schiavo's feeding tube, which led to "Terri's Law," which led to the case being national news.

Chief Judge Chris Altenbernd, who wrote the ruling, is an Eagle Scout with two children. Gov. Bob Martinez, a Republican, named him to the appeals court. Carolyn Fulmer, one of the concurring judges, also has two children. Democrats Bob Graham and Lawton Chiles put on her on the circuit and appeals court, respectively. Judge Thomas E. Stringer has four children. Gov. Graham put him on the county court, Gov. Martinez put him on the circuit court, and Gov. Bush put him on the appeals court.

Parents got chance to prove theory

So this panel can be labeled neither "liberal" nor "conservative." Let's deal, then, with the two counts of the indictment: that the court acted hastily, and that the court is uncaring.

The June ruling was the fourth that the 2nd DCA has issued in the Schiavo case. Each time, the court eventually has upheld Judge Greer's finding that Terri Schiavo did not want to be kept alive artificially, and that the feeding tube can be removed.

In its third ruling, the appeals court noted that "clear and convincing evidence at the time of trial supported a determination that Mrs. Schiavo would have chosen in February 2000 to withdraw the life-prolonging procedures." Yet even then, the court did not dismiss outright the late claim by Terri Schiavo's parents, Mary and Bob Schindler, that therapy could help their daughter.

So the appeals court sent the case back to Judge Greer. The Schindlers, though, had to show that treatment would "significantly" improve Ms. Schiavo's life. The court ordered an examination by five physicians. At Judge Greer's hearing, the Schindlers "presented little testimony." The doctor who caused the appeals court to order the review did not appear. The one who did made a weak case.

'Care and a cautious legal standard'

"It is likely that no guardianship court," the judges said, "has ever received as much high-quality medical evidence in such a proceeding." The appeals court looked at the full-length videotapes of Ms. Schiavo, not the excerpts on TV news programs. The judges examined brain scans. The conclusion: Terri Schiavo is in a permanent vegetative state.

But as Judge Altenbernd noted in June: "Each of us, however, has our own family, our own loved ones, our own children... we understand why a parent who had raised and nurtured a child from conception would hold out hope that some level of cognitive function remained. If Mrs. Schiavo were our own daughter, we could not but hold to such a faith."

So the court sees Terri Schiavo as a person. The court knows the tragedy, of her condition, the family fight, the unpleasant decision. "It is a thankless task," Judge Altenbernd wrote, "and one to be taken with care, objectivity and a cautious legal standard designed to promote the value of life.

"But it is also a necessary function if all people are to be entitled to a personalized decision about life-prolonging procedures independent of the subjective and conflicting assessments of their friends and relatives... the law currently provides no better solution that adequately protects the interests of promoting the value of life."

It should have ended there. The courts have spent years on Terri Schiavo's case and acknowledged the difficulty. The governor and Legislature spent two hours and proclaimed themselves saviors. So who's being reckless and uncaring?

437 posted on 11/03/2003 6:50:44 AM PST by daylate-dollarshort
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To: sweetliberty
A little bird is reviewing Felos' book while we speak. Look for excerpts at Free Republic in the near future.

People who believe they have supernatural "powers" should not be practicing law, imo.

438 posted on 11/03/2003 7:15:26 AM PST by freeparoundtheclock (TERRISFIGHT.ORG - Go to Hospice Woodside Make a Sign "TERRI'S ANGELS")
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To: tutstar
"I just emailed them..."
pfc@partnershipforcaring.org


Great letter, tutstar!
439 posted on 11/03/2003 7:20:14 AM PST by windchime
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To: JustPiper
It'll be a while before I can work on the information, but will freepmail you with the info and we can work out something that will be beneficial to everyone.
440 posted on 11/03/2003 10:36:38 AM PST by windchime
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To: Republic
You have FReep-mail
441 posted on 11/03/2003 2:33:34 PM PST by Budge ( <>< .)
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To: Randjuke
What I do NOT want is the government or courts making a "one size fits all" decision, taking away the decision making from the family.

That is one of the main problems in this case. A judge (Greer), for whatever reason, refuses to allow any meaningful evidence in FAVOR of Terri to be presented!

Judges ruling by fiat. NOT the American way as written in our Constitution.

442 posted on 11/03/2003 2:49:55 PM PST by Budge ( <>< .)
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To: Ohioan from Florida
I'm just frustrated with the whole legal system. It's supposed to work, and it doesn't. I thought that's when the legislators are supposed to fix it.

That is the problem, Ohio. They keep legislating and messing it up more!

443 posted on 11/03/2003 2:56:07 PM PST by Budge ( <>< .)
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To: Budge
It could be that the legislators are messing it up, but for the first time in my life, I have finally figured out why politicians are lawyers and vice-versa. When I read the statutes of Florida, it's clear to me that Terri has not been allowed to exercise her rights that are retained by her as an incapacitated individual. Retained rights can neither be delegated nor assumed by someone else. They are Terri's and NO ONE ELSE'S! She has under the Florida statutes the right to therapy which is not to be discontinued just because Michael said so. She has the right to return to her fullest capacity as early as possible. Those statutes are there, why can't Judge Greer enforce them? The legal system doesn't work, because we have greedy, unscrupulous lawyers who talk their way out of good laws and use them for ill gain. JMHO.
444 posted on 11/03/2003 3:44:39 PM PST by Ohioan from Florida
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To: Budge
And this judge wears both "Republican" and "Baptist" labels -- what a perversion!
445 posted on 11/03/2003 6:11:07 PM PST by Theodore R.
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To: Krodg
Since that night, Terri has not moved or spoken. Doctors believe she has no cognitive ability -- that she cannot think or feel. Hers is a life of gray, something more than death but less than life.

These "supposed to be" reporters........just make me furious! Why aren't they held accountable for the jibberish they print? Bah!

446 posted on 11/03/2003 7:52:47 PM PST by Shortstop7
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Judge to Rule Soon on Withdrawal of
Terri Schindler-Schiavo's Feeding Tube

By Jenny Nolan
NRLC Department of Medical Ethics
and Liz Townsend

Florida Judge George W. Greer will decide by the end of November whether the feeding tube of a severely brain-damaged woman should be withdrawn, a ruling that may end the long court battle between the husband and parents of Terri Schindler-Schiavo and decide Terri's fate.

Judge Greer is sifting through the conflicting testimony of five doctors who divided on Terri's diagnosis and prognosis during hearings early last month. A decision is expected November 22.

Michael Schiavo's attempts to remove his wife's feeding tube are strongly opposed by Terri's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, who deny that their daughter is in a persistent vegetative state and believe that her condition could improve with treatment, the Tampa Tribune reported.

Terri sustained brain damage when she mysteriously collapsed in her home on February 25, 1990, and her brain was deprived of oxygen for several minutes. Now 38, Terri can breathe, swallow, and maintain a heartbeat and blood pressure on her own, according to WorldNetDaily. She currently lives at Hospice House Woodside in Pinellas Park.

Greer first authorized Schindler-Schiavo's death in February 2001. She was without food and fluids for 60 hours beginning April 24, according to the St. Petersburg Times. Her parents obtained a temporary injunction of the order and she was fed, but Judge Greer again ordered her feeding tube to be removed.

However, the Schindlers took the case to the 2nd District Court of Appeal. The three-judge panel ruled on October 17, 2001, that doctors should examine Schindler-Schiavo before a final decision is made.

Five physicians were chosen -- two by the Schindlers, two by Schiavo, and one by Judge Greer -- to examine Terri and report to the court. During the current hearing, which took place between October 11 and 22, the doctors gave their opinions of Terri's condition and the potential for improvement, according to the Tribune.

During closing arguments, the Schindlers' attorney insisted that Terri must be given the chance to live. "Have we raised sufficient issues, in the words of the 2nd [District Court of Appeal], that there might be some doubt that she should die?" said Pat Anderson in her closing arguments, according to WorldNetDaily. "Because if the court is not a hundred percent satisfied that the facts and the law permit it, she can't be made a sacrificial lamb on the stage of the right-to-die movement."

However, Schiavo's attorney George Felos argued that there is no hope for recovery and that her husband should be able to order the withdrawal of food and fluids. "Unfortunately Terri is in a persistent vegetative state," Felos said in court, according to the Associated Press (AP). "She's not going to get better."

The opinions voiced by the physicians disagreed diametrically. The doctors called by Schiavo and Greer who testified at the October hearing agreed that additional therapy could not be expected to yield any improvement for Terri.

Court-appointed neurologist Dr. Peter Bambakidas testified that he knew of no treatments that could successfully improve Terri's condition, according to the AP. Bambakidas added that when Terri yawns, swallows, and laughs, her actions are merely "spontaneous" and "random," not evidence of meaningful brain activity.

Dr. Ronald Cranford, a University of Minnesota neurologist who frequently testifies in court cases advising the withdrawal of food and fluids, said he believes unconscious people, such as those in persistent vegetative states, lack personhood and therefore constitutional rights, according to the AP.

During Cranford's examination of Schindler-Schiavo, which was shown on videotape during the hearing, Terri smiled, moaned, and turned toward her mother as Mary Schindler touched her daughter's face, the AP reported. Cranford dismissed these reactions as "a classic nonspecific response" of a patient in a persistent vegetative state. "A smile doesn't mean she's happy," he testified, according to the AP. "It means she was touched."

In contrast, both of the Schindler-appointed doctors found Terri to be responsive and stated that she could improve with therapy.

Clearwater, Florida, neurologist Dr. William Hammesfahr testified that Terri shows cognitive function, can respond to her parents and follow commands, the Times reported. When the videotape of Hammesfahr's examination showed Terri's eyes moving when she was given a command, he commented, "A person in a coma does not do that."

Hammesfahr said that a new procedure that increases blood flow and oxygen to the brain could help Terri. "You can get major improvements from patients who have been plateaued for a very long time," he told ABC Action News.

Dr. William Maxfield, a Tampa radiologist, agreed that Terri is not in a persistent vegetative state, noting her ability to follow commands and her responsiveness, according to the AP. After comparing Terri's 1996 CAT scan to her 2002 scan, Maxfield also testified that Terri's brain tissue appeared more localized and uniform.

"It tells me that the brain tissue on the [2002] study has a more normal appearance," Maxfield testified, adding that hyperbaric oxygen therapy, similar to Hammesfahr's recommendation, could lead to improvement, the AP reported.

Felos disputed Maxfield's findings, calling Terri's reactions involuntary reflexes. "Vegetative patients can respond to the environment; so can plants," he told Bay News 9. "If you put a plant near a window it will grow towards the light; it doesn't mean it's not a vegetable. It's the same with patients."

Schiavo insists he has his wife's best interests at heart, but the Schindlers believe he is after Terri's money.

In 1992 Schiavo won a $700,000 malpractice award on Terri's behalf, intended to pay for her lifelong treatment and care. But court documents show that Schiavo's legal fees have drained the fund to $140,000. Schiavo received a separate $300,000 for himself, according to the AP.

As long as Schiavo is married to Terri, he will inherit the remainder of her settlement when she dies.

In 1998, independent guardian Richard L. Pearse Jr. reported to Judge Greer that Schiavo would benefit financially if his wife died, the AP reported. Pearse noted that for the first four years after Terri's collapse, "Schiavo pursued every manner of treatment and rehabilitation conceivable," but when the litigation ended and the money was awarded, Schiavo had "a change of heart concerning further treatment."

Pearse's recommendation to Greer was that Terri's feeding tube remain, according to AP.

Schiavo claims he is trying to respect his wife's wishes by withdrawing the feeding tube. Recalling a conversation he had with her years ago, he told Bay News 9, "She just put the book down and said, 'I don't ever want to be a burden to anybody. Don't ever let me live like that.'"

However, in 2001 new evidence surfaced challenging Schiavo's version of Terri's wishes. A former girlfriend, Cyndi Brasher Shook, came forward and said that Schiavo told her that he and Terri never spoke about the issue, reported the Times.

Shook told the Times that when she asked Schiavo what his wife would have wanted, he replied, "How ... should I know? She was 25 years old and we did not talk about it."

Currently, Schiavo lives with his fiancee of several years and their newborn daughter.

Other conflicts have fueled the already contentious case. The Schindlers complain that Schiavo limits their visits with their daughter. They also say he has refused to allow doctors to examine her, refused her antibiotics and needed dental work, refused to replace a broken wheelchair so she could be taken outdoors, and refused the delivery of flowers from a friend to her room on her birthday, the AP reported.

"Her teeth are fine; she doesn't eat," Schiavo told the AP. "Why take her to a gynecologist? She was supposed to die months ago. I don't want her room filled with flowers from strangers and right-to-life activists. Even though she is vegetative she has a right to privacy." Schiavo told Bay News 9 that if Terri were his own daughter he would be doing the same thing.

While Terri's parents have continued to fight for their daughter's life, they fear that Judge Greer will decide once more that Terri be deprived of food and fluids. "He's going to rule against us again," Bob Schindler told WorldNetDaily. "I have no doubt in my mind about it."

http://www.nrlc.org/news/2002/NRL11/shiavo.html
447 posted on 11/03/2003 9:18:19 PM PST by Krodg (I believe, I pray and I fight.)
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Dr. Ronald Cranford, a University of Minnesota neurologist who frequently testifies in court cases advising the withdrawal of food and fluids, said he believes unconscious people, such as those in persistent vegetative states, lack personhood and therefore constitutional rights, according to the AP.

Here lies the problem...

448 posted on 11/03/2003 9:25:26 PM PST by Krodg (I believe, I pray and I fight.)
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To: daylate-dollarshort
So the court sees Terri Schiavo as a person.

And so, it's putting a "person" to death, on less proof than would be needed to send someone to Florida's electric chair. Does something look fishy here?

449 posted on 11/04/2003 9:52:04 AM PST by drlevy88
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To: drlevy88
"And so, it's putting a "person" to death, on less proof than would be needed to send someone to Florida's electric chair. Does something look fishy here?

Only to someone who is totally unfamiliar with the court record in this case.

450 posted on 11/04/2003 12:05:06 PM PST by daylate-dollarshort
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