No matter how you cut it up, eating people is simply wrong -

The Telegraph - UK ^ | December 8, 2003 | Barbara Amiel

[UnklGene]

No matter how you cut it up, eating people is simply wrong -

By Barbara Amiel (Filed: 08/12/2003)

Not a few modern cannibals in the West have been German and it would be tempting to say, after reading the testimony of self-confessed cannibal Armin Meiwes, now on trial in Kassel, that eating people is a peculiarly German thing to do. But there have been some American and British cannibals, with the odd Russian as well.

What may be an EU speciality is that apparently cannibalism is not a crime - though using wooden chopping boards may be. Somehow, one would feel slightly more comfortable living in a union where people may eat each other occasionally, but at least it's against the law.

What seems more predominant in Germany is the confusion of crime, sex and the culinary arts. Several German cannibals have made their victims into sausages for sale. I do not know whether their motives were purely economic or whether it was a case of taking Robert Frost's advice to combine vocation with avocation.

Meiwes, 41, advertised on the internet for someone he could eat and apparently it took 400 e-mails before he got it right. Quite a few sites exist for people with a predilection for cannibalism, but, like much of the internet, people lie about their age - and their tastes.

According to Meiwes's testimony, several prospective meals showed up at his home, including a man who was wrapped in cling-film with the parts of him he wanted eaten labelled.

But "cannabilees" are picky: the man in cling-film found it "too cold" on the hook that Meiwes had hung him on, so he was cut down and they had pizza instead.

Another wanted his genitals burnt by a flamethrower before being eaten, which Meiwes found "too weird". There are gradations in weirdness and they seem to effect cannibals as much as anyone else.

The encounter that resulted in the charges against Meiwes was something of a "techie" affair. Meiwes is a computer technician and his victim, Bernd Brandes, 42, a computer engineer. One cannot know what goes on in the technological soul, apparently so nerdish, but it may be that all the exposure to bytes has consequences.

According to Meiwes's testimony, Brandes came to his house perfectly ready and eager. "I hope you'll find me tasty," he said.

Brandes is said to have swigged down a bottle of the cold remedy Night Nurse and some non-prescription sleeping pills. Apparently Brandes wanted his penis cut off and made into the meal's appetizer, but didn't want it to hurt.

Night Nurse, as many a sufferer knows, is the only good part of having the flu, since it has a relatively high alcohol content. Non-prescription sleeping pills are hopeless and it comes as no surprise that the excitement of the prospective amputation triumphed over the tablets' sedative effects.

Anyway, the whole thing was nearly called off when an un-sedated Brandes decided to return to Berlin. But at the train station, like many a lover, he turned back for one more go and downed another bottle of Night Nurse.

This did the trick. "Cut the thing off," he is said to have demanded and Meiwes obliged. The video Meiwes made of these events apparently confirms that Brandes's participation was voluntary, though prosecutors claim Brandes must have been incapable of rational thought.

According to Meiwes, Brandes was so keen to taste his own fried member that he started eating it before it was cooked properly, so as not to die without experiencing this longed for pleasure. He perished 10 hours later.

The internet has quite a lot of cannibal sites. Some of the language is slightly unusual. "I am a tall stocky long pig looking for a big-bodied male chef who would like to have a feast of me," says one man at a hotmail address. People swap helpful tips, such as "How to Practice Safe Cannibalism".

Cannibals may not know that "eating people is wrong", as the Flanders & Swann song has it, but they do know that eating the wrong people can be medically dangerous.

Prosecutors have chosen to charge Meiwes with "murder motivated for sexual satisfaction". His lawyers argue that he is only guilty of "killing on request", which, in the wake of society's sympathy for euthanasia, carries a maximum term of five years.

Legal opinion in Germany seems to be that, given the victim's evident consent to the crime, it will be difficult to get a murder conviction.

Heaven knows, I'm an extreme libertarian and really believe that the state has no place in the bedrooms - or dining rooms - of the nation. But surely it cannot be legal to eat people, even if they wish to be on the menu.

I'm enough of a libertarian to suggest that sado-masochism between consenting adults should be lawful, certainly if it stops short of grievous bodily harm, and some might argue so long as it falls short of death.

Cannibalism has long-standing roots in human behaviour. Primitive people would eat their enemies for their qualities as much as for nutrition: Meiwes feels he now speaks English better because Brandes was proficient at it.

Ingestion can also be a symbol for sex or sacrament. Lovers bite each other. Christians celebrate a metaphorical consumption of the Saviour's body and blood. Virtually every known cannibal has alluded to a quasi-religious component in his actions. Meiwes testified "it was almost like Communion".

Christianity doesn't remotely justify cannibalism, but shows that, like all sicknesses, cannibalism is an extreme or perverse form of a deep-seated human trait. Such sicknesses are parodies of a normal condition. A deformed person has six toes - he does not have five toes and one propeller.

The thin line that separates sexuality and perversity in the human mind is curious. One man's lust is another's perversion. Any type of sexual practice you happen not to like can become repulsive to you. This includes sexual behaviour well within the normal range, such as deep kissing, which most people would find unexceptional but a minority would find utterly revolting.

As you go up the line of sexual variations, a greater number of people are disgusted, until you get to such preferences as cannibalism that make almost all of us sick.

But the uniqueness of the human sexual response makes it difficult to understand how society decides that one unnatural act should be more favoured than another - when force or children are not involved. Why do we have gay pride days, but forbid two consenting adults to engage in incest?

A mother and daughter or two brothers in an incestuous relationship self-evidently cannot have a child. And shouldn't heterosexual incest be legal if issue is prohibited? Necrophilia I suppose lacks consent on the part of the dead person, but what if the dead person made a living will giving his consent?

Our regulation of sexual behaviour constantly baffles me. But, if the situation in the Armin Meiwes case makes him guilty of a lesser crime than murder according to German law, that is the crime of which he should be found guilty.

It's more important to uphold existing law than to substitute one's natural disgust for cannibalism. Which wouldn't prevent one from concluding that the German law on "request killing" is an ass.

[katz]

Oh, by the way, this group 'Toto Coelo' who sang I Eat Cannibals was from the UK!

[Quix]

True.

Though, I'm convinced that in our lifetime, due to great famine, people in the good old US OF A

will eat their friends and relatives who have died.

Some will wait for them to die so they can eat them.

Some will hasten the dying.

The times are a changin'

folks.

[Stop Legal Plunder]

It's nice to know that there are moral judgments that even self styled 'extreme' libertarians will make. This confirms my belief that deep inside every libertarian is a conservative waiting to get out. It's just a matter of where you draw the line. And once you start drawing lines, you aren't a libertarian--at least not in a consistent or pure sense.

Worth repeating.

[Ronly Bonly Jones]

A song which we call, "The Reluctant Cannibal":
	Seated one day at the tom-tom,
	I heard a welcome shout from the kitchen:
	"COME AND GEEEEEEEEEEET IT!"
	Roast leg of insurance salesman!
	A chorus of "yum"s ran round the table:
	(Yum yum yum yum yum yum yum...)
	Except for Junior, who pushed away his shell,
	Got up from his log, and said:
Swann:	"I don't want any part of it!"
Flanders:	What? Why not?
Swann:	I don't eat people.
Flanders:	Hey?
Swann:	I won't eat people.
Flanders:	Huh?
Swann:	I don't eat people.
Flanders:	I must be going deaf!
Swann:	Eating people is wrong.
Flanders:	It's wrong?
Swann:	Don't eat people.
Flanders:	Have you gone clean out of your mind?
Swann:	I won't eat people.
Flanders:	What's the matter with the lad?
Swann:	Don't eat people.
Flanders:	He keeps on repeating.
Both:	Eating people is bad.
Flanders:	But people have always eaten people,
	What else is there to eat?
	If the Juju had meant us not to eat people,
	He wouldn't have made us of meat!
Swann:	Don't eat people.
Flanders:	Oh no, not again.
Swann:	I won't eat people.
Flanders:	All the day long.
Both:	Don't eat people.
Flanders:	He keeps on repeating.
Both:	Eating people is wrong.
Flanders:	Well... I... I never heard a more ridiculous idea in all my born days. To think that a son of mine should grow up to be a sissy - me, chief assistant to the assistant chief! I suppose you realise, son, if this was to get around, we might never get self-Government.
Swann:	I won't eat people!
Flanders:	Have you been talking to one of your mothers again? You're not getting to be one of these cranks who think that eating people is cruel, are you? Seeing the man sitting in the pot and you think he's suffering. Oh, it's not like that at all. Why, he's just had an invigourating chase through the forest, sitting there in the nice warm water with all the carrots and dumplings and things, he's thinking, "Oh, the pleasure and happiness I'm going to give to a heap of people". That man in the pot there, he enjoys it!
Swann:	Eating people is wrong!
Flanders:	Look son, son, I admire your sincerity. Always be sincere... whether you mean it or not. But you're young, you're young, when you're young you think you can change the whole world overnight, even eating people - I know, I've been young myself. Take it from your old Dad, you've just got to learnt to take the world as it is.
Swann:	I won't let another man pass my lips!
Flanders:	I know why you say "Don't eat people", because you are a coward, Francis, that's your trouble. Yes, a yellow-livered coward. You wouldn't mind eating people if you weren't afraid of ending up in the pot yourself - how despicable! If you go on like this you're liable to get ME into hot water.
Swann:	I won't eat people.
Flanders:	That's enough!
Swann:	I don't eat people.
Flanders:	I don't want to...
Swann:	Eating people is wrong!
Flanders:	Communist!
Flanders:	Going around saying "Don't eat people",
	That's the way to make people hate'ya.
	We always have eaten people, always will eat people,
	You can't change human nature.
Flanders:	Now let's try...
Swann:	I won't eat people,
	I don't eat people,
	I won't eat people,
	I don't eat people!
Flanders:	Must have been someone he ate!
Swann:	Eating people is out!
Flanders:	I give up, I give up, you used to be a regular anthrophagi. If this crazy idealistic idea of yours was to catch on, I just dunno where we would all be. Just about ruin our entire internal economy. Fortunately, I suppose it's catching on isn't really very likely - why, you might just as well going around saying "Don't fight people", for example...
Swann:	Don't fight people? Ha, ha! Don't fight people?! Ha ha ha!
Flanders:	There, imagine? There, you see! All part of the same...
Both:	(laughing) ... fantastical impossibility!
Flanders:	That's the boy!
Both:	RIDICULOUS!

[ChemistCat]

Anybody read STRANGER IN A STRANGE LAND? Of course you have. You just blanked out the traumatic parts about cannibalism.

--

It was about a century ago, I understand, that children were sold as meat in the village markets of China.

--

I'm saying "protein is protein," when I can't bring myself to eat rabbit, elk, or venison, but supposedly, when one is hungry enough, protein IS protein. Ask the survivors of that plane crash in the Andes, who were hanging strips of deceased companions in the sun to dry. I think only one person starved rather than eat the dead...and she, herself, of course, was eaten.

--

May I never be that hungry!

[Quix]

Cute. Thanks/

[stands2reason]

ROFLMAO!!!!

[ppaul]

perversion ping.

[stands2reason]

Just DAMN! and I mean DAMN!!! ping

[UnklGene]

Thanks, R.B..

[Indie]

I guess I don't understand the British sense of humor.

[dalereed]

"No matter how you cut it up, eating people is simply wrong"

What if he just bit off large hunks, no cutting, does that qualify?

[The Great RJ]

But wouldn't the recent Supreme Court decision on sodomy also apply--if the parties both agree then who is the state to interfere in their privacy.

[Reaganesque]

LOL!! I haven't heard that song in years! Flanders and Swann are/were a scream. This song contains one of my favorite quotes of all time and one that constantly came to mind during the Clinton years: "Always be sincere, whether you mean it or not." Great stuff. Do you have the words to the Hippopotamus song? (Many think this song is irrelevant. But it is not irrelevant, its a hippopotamus!) ;-)

[qam1]

Christianity doesn't remotely justify cannibalism,

Never read Zechariah chapter 11 or Leviticus chapter 26 I see

[MHGinTN]

Justify cannibalism?... Hah! Amereica is begging for it! Some in this 'enlightened' culture have concluded that if the fellow humans are young enough and their body parts utilitarian enough, just do it, cure disease and injury with the body parts that may be created and harvested.

[Reaganesque]

How about this Monty Python sketch:

The Lifeboat Sketch

(Scene: A lifeboat on the open sea. Seagulls are crying.)

(groans and coughs)

1: Still no sign of land. How long is it?

2: That's a rather personal question, sir. (low voices)

1: You stupid git. I meant how long is it that we've been in the lifeboat? You've destroyed the atmosphere now.

2: Sorry.

1: Shut up. Start again.

(dramatic pause)

1: Still no sign of land. How long is it?

2: 33 days, sir.

1: Thirty-three days?!

2: We can't go on much longer. (low voices) I didn't think I destroyed the atmosphere.

1: Shut up.

2: Well, I don't think I did.

1: 'Course you did.

2: (aside, to 3) Did you think I destroyed the atmosphere?

3: Yes I think you did.

1: Shut up. Shut up!

(dramatic pause)

1: Still no sign of land. How long is it?

2: 33 days, sir.

4: Have we started again? [slap]

(dramatic pause)

1: STILL no sign of land. How long is it?

2: 33 days, sir.

1: Thirty-three days?!

2: We can't go on much longer, sir. We haven't eaten since the fifth day.

5: We're done for, we're done for!

1: Shut up, Maudlin.

2: We've just got to keep hoping. Someone may find us.

6: How we feeling, Captain?

C: Not too good. I...I feel so weak.

2: We can't hold out much longer.

C: Listen...chaps...there's still a chance. I'm...done for, I've...got a gammy leg and I'm going fast; I'll never get through. But...some of you might. So...you'd better eat me.

2: Eat you, sir?

C: Yes. Eat me.

2: Ewww! With a gammy leg?

C: You don't have to eat the leg, Thompson. There's still plenty of good meat. Look at that arm.

5: It's not just the leg, sir.

C: What do you mean?

5: Well, sir...it's just that -

C: Why don't you want to eat me?

5: I'd rather eat Johnson, sir!

6: So would I, sir.

C: I see.

J: Then that's decided...everyone's gonna eat me!

1: Uh, well.

5: What, sir?

1: Go ahead, please, but I won't -

J: Oh nonsense, sir, you're starving; tuck in!

1: No, no, it's not that.

6: What's the matter with Johnson, sir?

1: Well, he's not kosher.

5: That depends how we kill him, sir.

1: Yes, that's true. But to be perfectly frank I...I like my meat a little more lean. I'd rather eat Hodges.

H: Oh well, all right.

5: I still prefer Johnson.

C: I wish you'd all stop bickering and eat me.

1: Look. I tell you what. Those who want to can eat Johnson. And you, sir, can have my leg. And we make some stock from the Captain, and then we'll have Johnson cold for supper.

Crew: (cacophonous) Hmm, yes, good idea, excellent thinking, very good, I don't suppose we could have Hodges in the morning, jolly good idea, etc.

[FreedomCalls]

What may be an EU speciality is that apparently cannibalism is not a crime

Cannibalism is not a crime in the modern, progressive, enlightened, and liberal Germany. But killing ants is.

Germans banned from killing ants

Germany has introduced new laws making it illegal to kill ants and appointed 85 ant protection officers to protect the insects.

Homeowners and gardeners who attempt to destroy an anthill or underground nest will face hefty fines if caught.

They must now apply for a permit from their local forestry office to have the ants carefully moved to local woods.

"People with an ant hill in their garden must under no circumstances resort to the use of poison," said senior ant protection officer Dieter Kraemer.

"This is a violation of federal nature protection laws and punishable with hefty fines."

He added that ants were highly valued by German foresters for eating insects which attack trees.

A high ant population can prevent costly and environmentally unfriendly woodland spraying aimed at pests such as the Nun moth which attacks pines and other conifers.

[Choose Ye This Day]

Why don't cannibals eat clowns?


They taste funny.

[ladyinred]

Justify cannibalism?... Hah! Amereica is begging for it! Some in this 'enlightened' culture have concluded that if the fellow humans are young enough and their body parts utilitarian enough, just do it, cure disease and injury with the body parts that may be created and harvested.

.Oh my, sad but true.