From Communism to Fascism?

Wall Street Journal ^ | February 22, 2002 | Michael A. Ledeen

[Remember_Salamis]

As President Bush, now in Beijing, gets up close to the rulers of China, he must have conflicting feelings.

We are told that the Chinese have helped us fight terror, which is cause for satisfaction. On the other hand, the CIA has recently revised sharply upwards its estimate of Chinese military power in the near future, which is cause for concern. As he ponders what China is and may be, Mr. Bush might reflect that the People's Republic is something quite unique, and therefore very difficult to understand.

China is not, as is invariably said, in transition from communism to a freer and more democratic state. It is, instead, something we have never seen before: a maturing fascist regime. This new phenomenon is hard to recognize, both because Chinese leaders continue to call themselves communists, and also because the fascist states of the first half of the 20th century were young, governed by charismatic and revolutionary leaders, and destroyed in World War II. China is anything but young, and it is governed by a third or fourth generation of leaders who are anything but charismatic.

The current and past generations of Chinese leaders, from Deng Xiaoping to Jiang Zemin, may have scrapped the communist economic system, but they have not embraced capitalism. To be sure, the state no longer owns "the means of production." There is now private property, and, early last June, businessmen were formally admitted to the Communist Party. Profit is no longer taboo; it is actively encouraged at all levels of Chinese society, in public and private sectors. And the state is fully engaged in business enterprise, from the vast corporations owned wholly or in part by the armed forces, to others with top management and large shareholders simultaneously holding government jobs.

This is neither socialism nor capitalism; it is the infamous "third way" of the corporate state, first institutionalized in the 1920s by the founder of fascism, Benito Mussolini, then copied by other fascists in Europe.

Full story ...

[DoctorMichael]

BTW, I got an irate, argumentative response from a newbie a few years back, from Taiwan (who signed up that day and has never posted since) that wanted to 'discuss' my statement that China is a Fascist Nation.

We are being watched here at FR.

[Sam the Sham]

Precisely. The Chinese government beat the post Tienanmin Square democracy movement by simply saying to the Chinese people, 'Do you want to end up like Russia ?'

The similarity between Communism and Fascism is that both derive from Social Darwinism. But it ends there. Many on this board argue about fascism being a "left wing" ideology. Which spectacularly ignore the obvious truth that the Right welcomed the fascists as allies, allowed them to come to power, survived intact under fascist rule, and the basis of the anti-Hitler and anti-Mussolini plots were the old boy network while the Left was completely and totally destroyed.

[A. Pole]

The similarity between Communism and Fascism is that both derive from Social Darwinism.

Darwinism is later than Communism and Communist collectivism is opposed to the Social Darwinism. Social Darwinism is shared by Free Market fundamentalism and National Socialism.

[nonliberal]

Well actually Communism & Fascism so closely resemble one another that its differences are incidental. Both require State interevention & the repression of dissent. Not to mention the growing of government.

Half right. America is a fascist country. The Wall Street Journal understands that fascism is an economic rather than political system. This is best summed up by Mussolini's infamous retort "I don't care if I own it, I am going to control it."

Under a fascist system there is free enterprise, profit, and private property. Businesses are heavily regulated to the point that it makes products so expensive (prescription drugs are a good example) that there are calls for the state to take over the economy in order to "fix" what is perceived to be a failure of the free market.

Communism, socialism and fascism are simply different manifestations of state control over the economy.

[Admin Moderator]

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[risk]

However, the truth is that it is another good old Chinese empire with modern industrial and market economic system.

bttt

[Grampa Dave]

You left out one part of the equation in your excellent summation of the Clintoons:

If your corporation is loyal to my political party and me and backs up that loyality with large donations, your corporation will have no problems with laws that could hurt your corporation or from capitalism re new and better products/services. If you don't donate to me, I will sic Jake Reno on you and make your corporation another Microsoft.

During the 1930/40's, the Fascists in charge of the Italians, Germans and Japanese set up the proto type Fascist Governments and gave the state's blessing to the large companies which supported them. Interesting fact is many of those corporations are still around and bigger than ever.

[budwiesest]

Interesting fact is many of those corporations are still around and bigger than ever.

You making fun of my Volkswagon? ;^}

[Grampa Dave]

Volkswagen, Mercedes, BMW, Bayer and many of the mainline Japanese companies before/during WWII are still there.

Does your Volkswagen allow you to bring a Bud near it?:)

[budwiesest]

Certainly, the company has paid enough into government over the years to keep it well-greased.

However, any company that promotes their product, using two bikini-clad models wrestling in mud over the 'less filling, tastes great' debate ought to be considered for contention in the race to become the officially sanctioned beer of state. ;^}

[JudgemAll]

Their is little difference between Communism and facism

Well, fascism pretends to aspire to elitism but instead puts liberal art wackos in power.

Communism pretends to be against elitism and puts liberal art wackos in power.

So I guess the end result is the same... and as Ghandi said, only the paths differ to the divinity... (sarcasm)

[Sam the Sham]

Marxism and Darwinism appeared about the same time.

But Social Darwinism is different from Darwinism. Social Darwinism applied "survival of the fittest" philosophy to society as a whole and said that it is good that humanity should play God and let the strong devour the weak and unfit. Social Darwinism was fashionable among turn of the century intelligentsia.

What we call Communism was actually Marxism-Leninism. It was Lenin who created the concept of the totalitarian, elitist, conspiratorial party. Marx created Marxism. Lenin created the Communist Party as the instrument of Marxism. It is true that Social Darwinism is also shared by National Socialism and Free Market fundamentalism. But the same poisonous philosophy had a left version, as well.

[thoughtomator]

To be fascist all that is required is for the state to divide its citizens into a favored class and a disfavored class, each subject to a different set of laws. While in theory the single-class dogma of the Marxists might be opposed to this, in practice this is exactly what all socialists do. (Take, for example, political correctness over here. White heterosexual males are the disfavored class, and a completely different set of rules apply to that group than applies to any other group.)

The upshot is that there is nothing inconsistent between fascism and the practice of socialism/communism.

[A. Pole]

To be fascist all that is required is for the state to divide its citizens into a favored class and a disfavored class, each subject to a different set of laws.

Not true at all. Fascism is something else and we might be moving this direction. You are talking about oligarchy which can be very different from Fascism. But yes, one could have mixture of Fascism and oligarchy - "the best of the two worlds" :(

[thoughtomator]

What definition of fascism do you use? The one I mentioned above is the only one I have found that is consistent with the historical record, but, of course, it seems that there are a million and one definitions for fascism these days.

[hosepipe]

Ill Duce
http://members.aol.com/registered/private/freep/traitor.jpg

[JasonC]

China is doing a lot more than that. They support proxies proliferating advanced weapons (e.g. they are still helping NK with nukes). They have a doctrine of asymmetric warfare, including use of proxies to get deniable distance from attacks. They claim control of an entire free country - Taiwan. None of which have anything to do with trying to protect themselves.

[Kudsman]

bump for later.

[walford]

You can't go back
,,,With religion, patriotism, and idealism abandoned, there was little left to aspire to but the acquisition of things and power. There seemed only a choice between the arbitrary morality provided by dogma or the amorality provided by moral relativism and hedonism.
Consequently, some people now have become wistful about the dogmatic past. It may have been arbitrary and tyrannical, but at least there was a sense of something greater than ourselves; at least there was a ready-made code of do's and don'ts; at least there was order and hope. As long as one didn't challenge authority, there was a modicum of security and predictability...

But secular dogma is not workable either, how about freedom?
...One bit of snake oil that the elites have been selling is that they are the ones who are on the cutting edge, building a plan for a modern society. By implication we who advocate for freedom are to be regarded as old fashioned – holding on to nostalgic dreams of a dark past better forgotten. I am here to tell you that they are the reactionaries...
,,,I am here to tell you that freedom is the most forward-looking idea. Freedom is the most optimal human condition, not a planned Utopia. We are the ones who seek a bright future based upon the knowledge that freedom is a right we are all born with. Seeking the growth of freedom for the whole world is the true path to global peace and prosperity.