[Tafkatld]

hmmm...
thank you for the replies so far. At least my post was not deleted now. Thanks for that.
Yes I am Dutch and a paying member of our Green Left Party, which is in fact of the highest democratic standards, intelligent, pro-environment, and for a free exchange of opinions. To add: they stand for a good system of social benefits, care for the elderly, and a decent and accessible health insurance for everyone, which we (still) have. However, these venerable institutions are under threat from the current Dutch rightwing politicians, who have fallen under the spell of Marvin Olasky and Karl Rove somehow.
Going into Iraq was a horrific mistake. Doing so without the UN backing made it all worse. Doing so with some 25,000 'privatized interrogation specialists and linguists' (er...mercenaries IMHO) made it giga-bad.
So far, the upshot is that some 12,000 innocent Iraqi women, men and children have been killed, maimed, burned and evaporated, in addition to 1,000 coalition troops.
Meanwhile, no WMDs and no ties between Iraq and Al Qaeda have been established (according to US investigative committees).
Yes, you found out the sociopath Saddam. That is a plus. But it is perfectly possible that in the Iraq elections a triumph will be achieved by the Shi'ites and the Communist Party. Iraq well may be become a sister country to Iran. But hey, the USA wanted democracy, and may get it this way.
Where was the US when Rumsfeld was enjoying his tea with Saddam in the 80s while doing business, and the same dictator killed his own people by the 10,000s?
Dick Cheney is rightly looked upon as an outright war profiteer. He handed out contracts to Halliburton and KBR (his own people, to whom he will return eventually, no doubt) for re-building bridges and buildings which had yet to be bombed...
Meanwhile, Osama Bin Laden is still free. And Afghanistan is in rapid decline under the token US standing army. The warlords are in charge, and heroin production is sharply rising there. And the Taliban are re-grouping too.
America and Bush jr. had the sympathy of the world after 9/11. With a historic gesture Bush then could have united the whole civilized world and have undertaken a concerted effort against terrorism. To leave Afghanistan half-finished (thus sending it back to its old state) and going into Iraq, the result is that the USA have lost this worldwide sympathy wholesale. That is deeply saddening, because another route could have been taken. World terrorism has risen sharply after Iraq, this proves that the War On Terror is a debacle. Rest assured that it will remain thus.
Our own Prime Minister, mr Balkenende, chose to march along with Bush and Blair. He too lied about the available intelligence before the war, and eventually, be it shortly, be it in years, he will have to face the facts.
Mr Blair, incidentally, gave a new twist to British Law. Apart from 'guilty' or 'not guilty', he invented the 'I Acted In Good Faith' escape phrasing. Unbelievable.
The only good thing to come out of this mess, this Pandora's Box that the West opened, is that George W. Bush will not see a second term as President. The polls are not in his favor anymore, and never before has a President been able to re-gain the precious 'swing voters' in so short a time span, surely not with the economic figures being what they are.
I'll raise a toast to John F. Kerry then. Cheers!
The artist formerly known as the leftist Dutchman.

[bad company]

Still hanging in there. I'm impressed.


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1082512/posts


Lets see how ya do with this one.

[Rebelbase]

" no WMDs and no ties between Iraq and Al Qaeda have been established (according to US investigative committees)."

I guess you don't understand the bitter nature of partisan politics in the US. The committe you referece is a sham. Documents that would have implicated the Clinton Administration's failure to act on Alqaeda threats to the US were STOLEN from a secure location by a PARTISAN politician worried about his boss's legacy, instead of trying to be honest.

[Richard Kimball]

Yes I am Dutch and a paying member of our Green Left Party, which is in fact of the highest democratic standards, intelligent, pro-environment, and for a free exchange of opinions.

Glad to see you've gotten over your inferiority complex.

[PBRSTREETGANG]

Yes I am Dutch and a paying member of our Green Left Party, which is in fact of the highest democratic standards, intelligent, pro-environment, and for a free exchange of opinions.

...and no ties between Iraq and Al Qaeda have been established (according to US investigative committees).

Impressive. Touting your intelligence and misstating the findings of the committee in the same breath.

Thanks for checking in from the land of wooden shoes. Why don't you go smoke a couple more fatties in Amsterdam and then take a long stroll through the tulip fields?

[blanknoone]

You do realize that your rinky dink worthless country sold Saddam more arms than America, right?

[VRWCmember]

Wow. That you could assemble so many misstatements or falsehoods into one post is quite an accomplishment.

I haven't really researched the relative strength of the Dutch economic and political institutions, so I have no comment about them.

However, your analysis of the condition of the political and economic institutions indicates three possibilities: (1) You are woefully misinformed due to exposure to leftist commentaries and news outlets; (2) You have attempted to research the available factual data but simply lack the intellectual ability to draw reasonable conclusions from the data; or (3) You simply make up your own conclusions and then repeat them even though you know them to be false.

Contrary to your stated opinion, going into Iraq was NOT a horrific mistake. Regime change in Iraq has been the official US policy since about mid-way thru clinton's second term. It was far overdue, and it will improve stability in the Middle East rather than degrading it.

You state that no WMDs have been found and no ties between Iraq and Al Qaeda have been established. Again, both of these statements are false. Either you are ignorant and misinformed or you are a liar.

As for the rest of your comments about Afghanistan, world terrorism, and political futures, my son's six-week-old kitten offers more intelligent and thought-provoking conversation.

[itsamelman]

Yes I am Dutch and a paying member of our Green Left Party

[Centurion2000]

I'll raise a toast to John F. Kerry then

I was willing to debate until I saw this; now I know you're a complete europeon troll. If you cannot see his duplicity and cowardice .. well .. you're probably too stupid to debate logically.

[Jaxter]

"So far, the upshot is that some 12,000 innocent Iraqi women, men and children have been killed, maimed, burned and evaporated.."

Ping me when it hits a million.

[Zavien Doombringer]

The only good thing to come out of this mess, this Pandora's Box that the West opened, is that George W. Bush will not see a second term as President. The polls are not in his favor anymore, and never before has a President been able to re-gain the precious 'swing voters' in so short a time span, surely not with the economic figures being what they are. I'll raise a toast to John F. Kerry then. Cheers! The artist formerly known as the leftist Dutchman.

And what makes you think that Kerry will do better?

You don't know what the hell you are talking about.

Keep your politics in your socialist country.

[PBRSTREETGANG]

The artist formerly known as the leftist Dutchman.

Can't quite hide your admiration for "Dutch" Reagan, huh?

[Marie Antoinette]

This guy is so deluded by his leftist media! Come take a look.

[Not A Snowbird]

Your post contains so many inaccuracies I hardly know where to begin. So I will just say this... you need to do your own research instead of blindly swallowing what the mainstream media vomits on the tube every night. Dig into the facts and you'll be surprised.

Come back when you have thoroughly researched, and we will debate. But if we want to hear DNC talking points belched at us, we'll watch CNN or go over to DU, so... See Ya.

[Mudboy Slim]

"...some 12,000 innocent Iraqi women, men and children have been killed, maimed, burned and evaporated"

My my...what ridiculous source do you read that has convinced you that the Iraqis who have been killed to date are "innocent"?! LOL...that's patently absurd, but the Left profits from the Ignorant Masses believing the LIES Lib'rals propogate.

Educate yerself and you'll soon see that Socialism is the REAL KILLER in recent world history.

MUD

[Mudboy Slim]

"Afghanistan is in rapid decline..."

Another blatant LIE...are all "Dutchmen" as ill-educated as yerself or are you more gullible than most?!

SHEEEESH...MUD

[laredo44]

With a historic gesture Bush then could have united the whole civilized world and have undertaken a concerted effort against terrorism. To leave Afghanistan half-finished (thus sending it back to its old state) and going into Iraq, the result is that the USA have lost this worldwide sympathy wholesale. That is deeply saddening, because another route could have been taken. World terrorism has risen sharply after Iraq, this proves that the War On Terror is a debacle. Rest assured that it will remain thus.

A major reason you are considered a troll here is because you are a liar. That's right, a liar. I know it and you know it. You socialistcommunists were never going to unite behind Bush. NEVER! NEVER! You would rather terror succeed than Bush be president -- and you and your ilk are doing everything in your power to assure the triumph of terror.

Earlier, you stated you have the "highest democratic standards." In fact you do not. You are not interested in democracy in the slightest. You are interested in seizing power and you are more than willing to lie (as demonstrated in the above paragraph) in order to attain your goal. In other words, because you can't convince a majority to vote for you if they know the truth, you'll lie to them. Just like Marxists everywhere do.

[untenured]

Going into Iraq was a horrific mistake.

Do you have any evidence that the broad Iraqi public wish the war hadn't happened? Or the Afghans, for that matter? If it turns out they're glad to be rid of Hussein and the Taliban (Hint: they are), does that make any difference in your view?

As an aside, your remarks seem to reveal a peculiar obsession with the personal characteristics of FR posters - they are "scared" and full of "cowardice," they are "sociopathic," full of "extreme fear and aggresion," etc.

Just as a friendly suggestion to a newcomer, this is not a way to win friends and influence people. It is not a way to learn anything, speaking as it does to the man rather than to the argument. And, frankly, it is the sort of thing trolls do.

You're new, so that sort of lashing out is perhaps to be expected. But don't forget that you're here as Jim Robinson's guest, and nothing more.

[KC Burke]

We do have valued Dutch contributors. Knighthawk, see post #14

[KC Burke]

We do have valued Dutch contributors. Knighthawk, see post #14

[Tribune7]

However, these venerable institutions are under threat from the current Dutch rightwing politicians, who have fallen under the spell of Marvin Olasky . . .

Super cool. Go Holland.