Dinosaur-Bird Flap Ruffles Feathers

Yahoo!News ^ | October 10, 2005 | E.J. Mundell

[mlc9852]

MONDAY, Oct. 10 (HealthDay News) -- Head to the American Museum of Natural History's Web site, and you'll see the major draw this fall is a splashy exhibit on dinosaurs.

And not just any dinosaurs, but two-legged carnivorous, feathered "theropods" like the 30-inch-tall Bambiraptor -- somewhat less cuddly than its namesake.

The heyday of the theropods, which included scaly terrors like T. rex and velociraptor, stretched from the late Triassic (220 million years ago) to the late Cretaceous (65 million years ago) periods.

[js1138]

Being able to fy 20 meters is significant if you are attacking or fleeing.

After my parents got rid of the egg layers they got bantams as free roaming pets. They were fearless, especially around cats. They attacked cats using the raptor strategy from Jurassic park. One would slowly advance on a cat while it was eating. Others would advance from the flanks. Within a couple of minutes they had the cat food.

[VadeRetro]

"The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco." -- Mark Twain

[js1138]

Natural selection doesn't mean flying faster than the fox, just faster than the other chicken.

I can say from personal observation that that strategy only works until there's only one chicken left.

In the case of our private flock it took about ten years for the fox to get them all, what with breeding and all.

[cornelis]

Natural selection doesn't mean flying faster than the fox, just faster than the other chicken.

Actually, lately natural selection is about deciding who gets to live and who gets to die. It's big money. Not much money in turkey manure anyway.

[shuckmaster]

Great link. Thanks!

[I'm ALL Right!]

Curious.

"I have called this principle by which each slight variation, if useful, is preserved, by the term Natural Selection." - Charles Darwin

[cornelis]

if useful

Is whatever is "useful" simply what survives? What fallacy lurks here?

[b_sharp]

"Within a couple of minutes they had the cat food.

And of course the cat, being a predator, knew when to give up a regular meal rather than chance injury.

[b_sharp]

"That particular "rethinking" would get rid of the creationist argument that Archaeopteryx is "too old to be descended from dromeosaurs." (It basically IS a dromeosaur with flight adaptations, except it's a bird in some taxonomies.)"

I don't believe Archy could actually fly, I think he was just a 'clothes horse' who thought his new look was just too fabulous. He later became the designer for true birds.

[b_sharp]

"Is whatever is "useful" simply what survives? What fallacy lurks here?

It's a problem with the definition not the process.

[cornelis]

OK, the process is understandable as a fact. But if it is possible to talk about it, we will have to put up with the problem of definition. What does Darwin mean by "if useful?"

[js1138]

Birds are also predators, even though cats aren't usually on the menu. What's interesting is how Spielberg (or his creature designers) managed to capture the group behavior of bipedal, "flightless" birds and transfer it to his raptors.

I'm afraid I spent far too much time watching chickens as a child. Now my bird watching is confined to spicy or mild.

[b_sharp]

"What does Darwin mean by "if useful?""

It increases the number of offspring. The tautology is there as you intimated but should be removed by a revision of the definition. Perhaps someone should come up with a non-tautological definition of selection.

[PatrickHenry]

Perhaps someone should come up with a non-tautological definition of selection.

The only tautology would be if someone said: "The survivors survive." There's no tautology at all in the concept of natural selection -- in competitive circumstances, those who survive and breed are the most fit. Creationists have been harping on this "tautology" issue for generations. Like all other creationist arguments, it has no merit.

[cornelis]

It increases the number of offspring.

Hopefully that won't be a runaway virus. Definitely not useful. Here's a shot at revision: if the variation that is preserved is not useful, it will go by the term Unnatural Selection.

[js1138]

The tautology is there as you intimated but should be removed by a revision of the definition. Perhaps someone should come up with a non-tautological definition of selection.

Selection is a label given to an observation. It may appear tautological in popular science writing, but it is shorthand for an observation, not a logical argument.

[balrog666]

How was the "CASE CLOSED"? What evidence do you have for your claims, and how do you counter the claims opposing you?

Didn't you notice? He used ALL CAPS just like an utter moron! Therefore he wins (in his own so-called mind anyway).

[cornelis]

Why do the fit survive? Because they are fit!

As my boy would ask, "What's a fit?"

[Liberal Classic]

That story brought tears to me eyes -- tears of laughter.

[Lurking Libertarian]

As for the Jews interpretation, I will ask you a question if I may. Can you find even one Hebrew scholar who does not believe that the day in Genesis one is a literal 24 hour day? I'll even accept one who supports evolution.

Many Orthodox Jews accept evolution as the way that God created us. There is, for example, a good essay on that subject in the notes to Genesis in this edition of the Torah (sorry, not on-line so far as I can find.)