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Director posits proof of biblical Exodus
The Globe and Mail ^ | 14 April 2006 | Michael Posner

Posted on 04/14/2006 5:58:16 AM PDT by timsbella

A provocative $4-million documentary by Toronto filmmaker Simcha Jacobovici claims to have found archeological evidence verifying the story of the biblical Exodus from Egypt, 3,500 years ago.

Religious Jews consider the biblical account incontrovertible — the foundation story of the creation of the nation of Israel. Indeed, they celebrated the Exodus Wednesday night and last night with the annual Passover recitation of the Haggadah.

But among scholars, the question of if and when Moses led an estimated two million Israelite slaves out of pharaonic Egypt, miraculously crossed the Red Sea ahead of the pursuing Egyptian army and received the Ten Commandments from God on Mount Sinai, has long been a source of contention.

Absent definitive proof, archeologists have argued variously that the biblical account is simply a nice fable or that it may have happened, but not on the scale suggested by the Book of Exodus. Nor is there any consensus about when it might have occurred.

Now, in Exodus Decoded, Mr. Jacobovici says he has found almost a dozen overlooked relics that confirm the biblical story.

(Excerpt) Read more at theglobeandmail.com ...


TOPICS: Canada; Culture/Society; Israel
KEYWORDS: akrotiri; calliste; documentary; exodus; exodusdecoded; godsgravesglyphs; jamescameron; judaism; passover; pastafarian; religion; santorini; simchajacobovici; sinai; thera; volcano; wwfsmd
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I liked his Quest for the Lost Tribes. Timely as the Egyptian antiquities (Hawass) folk are trying to say this never happened.
1 posted on 04/14/2006 5:58:18 AM PDT by timsbella
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To: timsbella

Where's your Moses now see? - Nathan
The only Jew in the movie and he looks miscast.


2 posted on 04/14/2006 6:04:45 AM PDT by massgopguy (massgopguy)
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To: timsbella

I didn't realize that the number was anywhere near 2,000,000 people.


3 posted on 04/14/2006 6:09:08 AM PDT by DB ()
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To: massgopguy
Really? The Only Jew???

Or was Holly-wierd just as Anti-Semitic back then [maybe not as great a degree as today] ???

4 posted on 04/14/2006 6:10:56 AM PDT by ExcursionGuy84 ("Jesus, Your Love takes my breath away.")
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To: timsbella

Only 3500 years ago? I have socks and underwear older.


5 posted on 04/14/2006 6:13:28 AM PDT by Frank_N_Sense (Vincente Fox, Al Sharpton and Jaques Chirac's DNA stains are on Hillary's blue dress.)
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To: timsbella

I saw another documentary recently that said there was some evidence that indicated that the Israelites did in fact cross the Red Sea at a narrow (relatively speaking) point and that underwater cameras revealed formations of rock and coral(?) that could possibly be encrusted chariots. None of it was conclusive evidence but it did seem to make sense. Either way, we shall see which is correct.


6 posted on 04/14/2006 6:16:33 AM PDT by Reaganesque
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To: Frank_N_Sense
I have socks and underwear older.

Maybe you should get out more.
After all, YAHWEH created Man to have mastery of the whole earth.

7 posted on 04/14/2006 6:18:21 AM PDT by ExcursionGuy84 ("Jesus, Your Love takes my breath away.")
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past; ohioWfan; Tribune7; Tolkien; GrandEagle; Right in Wisconsin; Dataman; ..

ping for interest


8 posted on 04/14/2006 6:19:51 AM PDT by wallcrawlr (http://www.bionicear.com/)
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To: DB
I didn't realize that the number was anywhere near 2,000,000 people.

And it included others who weren't Hebrews who took the opportunity to leave as well.
9 posted on 04/14/2006 6:19:52 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: Alouette; Convert from ECUSA

Thought this might be of interest. He's a Toronto local.


10 posted on 04/14/2006 6:22:30 AM PDT by timsbella (Mark Steyn for Prime Minister of Canada!)
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To: timsbella

I've read somewhere that the traditional Mt. Sinai is misidentified and that the real location lies in land controlled by Saudi Arabia. Supposedly the description of the site in the Bible doesn't match the traditional Mt. Sinai but this other location does and has a great deal of archeological evidence but is controlled by Saudi military.


11 posted on 04/14/2006 6:23:21 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: timsbella

A lot of this makes sense, except for one thing. I don't understand how a volcanic eruption could kill the first born of the Egyptians. The Nile turning red - yes, the frogs, locusts etc. - yes, but the first born of the Egyptians dying? And not the Hebrews because of lamb blood on the door lintels? A volcanic explanation for that just doesn't make sense.


12 posted on 04/14/2006 6:25:55 AM PDT by Tokra (I think I'll retire to Bedlam.)
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To: aruanan

Not sure, but indeed a number of historic religious sites are in the hands of those who would rather keep them hidden, or out and out destroy them. Look at how they keep garbage in the caverns below Temple Mount...everyone loses at the hands of such ignorance.


13 posted on 04/14/2006 6:25:55 AM PDT by timsbella (Mark Steyn for Prime Minister of Canada!)
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To: lonevoice

This will be an interesting film to watch.


14 posted on 04/14/2006 6:27:26 AM PDT by Pride in the USA
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To: Tokra

I haven't see this show, so I can't speak to it specifically. I do recall another show, possibly from the Learning Channel or National Geographic, which makes similar arguements. Quite compelling. Not so much the first born as death due to the conditions which occured from the previous nine plagues.


15 posted on 04/14/2006 6:28:46 AM PDT by timsbella (Mark Steyn for Prime Minister of Canada!)
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To: timsbella; blam
Dating the Exodus to roughly 1,500 BC, the two-hour film presented and executive-produced by Hollywood director James Cameron and airing Easter Sunday on Discovery Canada — suggests that the great Santorini volcano caused the Ten Plagues that the Bible says were visited upon the Egyptians and which finally persuaded the pharaoh of the day.

Wasn't the Santorini eruption discussed pretty thoroughly in that book Exodus to Arthur by Mike Baille?
16 posted on 04/14/2006 6:30:17 AM PDT by aruanan
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Comment #17 Removed by Moderator

To: DB
"There were about six hundred thousand men on foot, besides women and children." Exodus 12:37
18 posted on 04/14/2006 6:34:03 AM PDT by Hebrews 11:6 (Do you REALLY believe that (1) God is, and (2) God is good?)
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To: Reaganesque

I thought that they actually crossed the Sea of Reeds. The Red Sea designation was a bad interpretation that has persisted for centuries.


19 posted on 04/14/2006 6:38:16 AM PDT by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what and Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: timsbella
Look at how they keep garbage in the caverns below Temple Mount...everyone loses at the hands of such ignorance.

In the case of Temple Mount, it's just plain witting evil that resulted in the excavation and carting off to landfill of many, many tons of archeologically sensitive material. Of course, it was in the interests of Islam to cover up the fact that the Jews were in that land from (almost) time immemorial rather than the lately arrived so-called Palestinians.
20 posted on 04/14/2006 6:38:33 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: Pookyhead
Some claim that the phrase "Jesus of Nasareth, and King of the Jews", hung over the Cross, supposedly becomes in Hebrew an acrostic for "YHWH". (Others debate it as just a cool Ancient Urban Myth.) Google this:

Acrostic YHWH Jesus

It would explain the Pharasees going ballistic over it.

Has anyone here seen Dean Jones in a video called "St. John in Exhile"? First act is a one-man passion play, and second act is a recounting of Revalation, as if John were speaking to a group of faithful who came to visit him on Patmos. Electric! A wonderful presentation, dramatic, humorous, and it really makes the Disciples seem like people such as you and I, rather than Holy Supermen. I recommend it.

21 posted on 04/14/2006 6:43:52 AM PDT by 50sDad (ST3d: Real Star Trek 3d Chess: http://my.ohio.voyager.net/~abartmes/tactical.htm)
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To: doc30
Could be. But this other show, whose name I can't recall right now, gave rather compelling arguments as well. Again, either way, the story's details are far less important than the fact that God led Moses and his covenant people out of bondage. Finding out the exact route and the actual circumstances surrounding the Exodus will be quite interesting and is a worthy inquiry, it's just not the most important part of the story.
22 posted on 04/14/2006 6:45:36 AM PDT by Reaganesque
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To: Pookyhead
Where do you get YAH WEH?

I've seen & heard it spelled & written as such before. Maybe I'm just following the usual American-English manner of "mutilating" any pure forms of a foreign word/term.

but you're right: it is YHWH...or am I supposed to leave out the W.

Anyway, I was just spelling it the way I'd heard it pronounced.

23 posted on 04/14/2006 6:46:59 AM PDT by ExcursionGuy84 ("Jesus, Your Love takes my breath away.")
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To: DB

The number of crossing the Red Sea may even be greater than
2,000,000. At the time of the event only men were counted according to some scholars. Why women and children were not counted in the Old Testament I can not answer, I'm sure some can however.


24 posted on 04/14/2006 6:48:50 AM PDT by buck61
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To: Reaganesque

I remember a show on the History CHannel when they were talking about Rameses and Moses. The Egyptians never recorded their defeats, only their victories. And when they did list their victories, they were listed as victories against a certain country or land. But there was one reference to a victory in a raid against the Hebrew people. It was very interesting because it referenced the Hebrews and a people, not as a nation or country. The Pharoh at the time was after Rameses, so the thinking is that this was a small Egyptian raid against the Hebrews before the founding of Israel while the Hebrews were 'wandering the desert.' The show ended with the archeologist standing in front of Rameses munmmy and saying that we were looking at the remains of a man who may actually have laid eyes on Moses.(in an archeologiacally sense the word 'may' is used here, not as a statement of religous faith).


25 posted on 04/14/2006 6:53:30 AM PDT by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what and Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: Pookyhead

Reply to post #17

go to www.ynca.com or www.uonyc.org and read "The Missing "J". It is 48 pages and can be printed.


26 posted on 04/14/2006 6:53:35 AM PDT by Lewite (Praise YAHWEH and Proclaim His Wonderful Name, His Son Yahshua Messiah is coming soon!)
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To: timsbella

Thanks! Believing Christians take Exodus as God's Truth and Word, just like believing Jews.


27 posted on 04/14/2006 6:55:18 AM PDT by Convert from ECUSA (Illegals - taking the rights Americans don't have)
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To: Pookyhead

Instead of all the tech on the word Yahweh just use the words,
tell them, (I am sent you).


28 posted on 04/14/2006 6:56:32 AM PDT by buck61
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To: Tokra

There are some things that just have to be taken on faith. The need to explain God's miracles and power in view of our finite understanding is senseless. Attempting to explain how natural phenomenon could lead to the plagues or the crossing of the Red Sea ultimately just undercuts our faith. "Dispute not because you see not."


29 posted on 04/14/2006 7:03:25 AM PDT by Galena Nevada
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Comment #30 Removed by Moderator

To: aruanan

And the Jews use the same tactics on relict's from the Christian era. They, the Jews would not want proof that my Savior Jesus Christ, has already came to the earth and is soon returning with great glory and majesty for those who have excepted him.
I just get carried away thinking of that wonderful coming event.


31 posted on 04/14/2006 7:06:21 AM PDT by buck61
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To: buck61
And the Jews use the same tactics on relict's from the Christian era.

I've not heard of that. Jews consider Christianity to be dependent on Judaism, not a denial of its origin. There's a wealth of artifacts all the way back into the first century.
32 posted on 04/14/2006 7:16:19 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: ExcursionGuy84; Pookyhead
Simple, factual answer: Hebrew OT was originally vowel-less; now has vowel-points to indicated pronunciation.

There is good reason to believe YHWH was pronounced "Yahweh" (i.e. ancient Greek did it iabe or iao).

There is no rational basis for objecting to adding vowels -- unless one will also insist on dropping Abraham for 'brhm, or Jacob for y`qb, and so forth.

Dan
Biblical Christianity BLOG
Pyromaniacs

33 posted on 04/14/2006 7:21:56 AM PDT by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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To: Lurking Libertarian

pingtyka


34 posted on 04/14/2006 7:22:45 AM PDT by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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To: aruanan

I second that. To do otherwise would be to the detriment of both faiths.


35 posted on 04/14/2006 7:22:55 AM PDT by timsbella (Mark Steyn for Prime Minister of Canada!)
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To: Galena Nevada

I agree, but it's still a wonderful feeling to point to the skeptics and say, "See, it happened, just the way they wrote it did!!!"


36 posted on 04/14/2006 7:24:32 AM PDT by timsbella (Mark Steyn for Prime Minister of Canada!)
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To: Reaganesque; timsbella; Alamo-Girl; betty boop; curiosity
underwater cameras revealed formations of rock and coral(?) that could possibly be encrusted chariots. None of it was conclusive evidence but it did seem to make sense.


Are these some of the photos to which you refer?

 Clock balance wheel?


Since no scale is included, at least one photographed "chariot wheel" could be a clock part in an aquarium. The others are quite intriguing. I'd volunteer to do a proper archaeological evaluation (including measurements) -- if the "discoverrs" would share the UTM (GPS) coordinates...

37 posted on 04/14/2006 7:25:17 AM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah" = Shaitan's most successful disguise)
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To: Pookyhead
...this discussion is getting too deep for a Friday.

Nonsense! Seeing as it is the Passover/Crucifixion & Resurrection weekend, it is always a good thing to discuss Biblical languages/ linguistics, especially in regards to the Names of GOD.

38 posted on 04/14/2006 7:26:14 AM PDT by ExcursionGuy84 ("Jesus, Your Love takes my breath away.")
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To: timsbella
.....Moses led an estimated two million Israelite slaves out of pharaonic Egypt.....

Ha....

Although there may have been an Exodus, it was such a minor event it was not mentioned in Egyptian history. The Exodus probably involved a handful of people that crossed the marshes. It took them decades to multiply to the point they could attack and secure a significant piece of realestate.
39 posted on 04/14/2006 7:29:21 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. Slay Pinch)
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To: Reaganesque

The most recent interpretation is it wasn't the Red Sea, but the Reed Sea - shallow and as named, full of reeds, but made passable with a tsunami-like occurance. Seems entirely plausible given what we saw in Bande Aceh - and entire beach evacuated of water for many minutes only to be completely emersed with crushing waves. It may sound strange, but when I saw the footage for the first time, that's what came to mind.


40 posted on 04/14/2006 7:31:18 AM PDT by timsbella (Mark Steyn for Prime Minister of Canada!)
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To: Pookyhead

Actually, when you learn Hebrew as an adult, they give you a break and put in vowels ;) If you are ever interested, Kolel offers classes in a variety of locations.


41 posted on 04/14/2006 7:32:55 AM PDT by timsbella (Mark Steyn for Prime Minister of Canada!)
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To: Galena Nevada
Your statement is a classic example of willfully self-imposed ignorance cloaked as "faith". If that is a true statement of your beliefs, then, you would be right at home in 7th-century Islam.
42 posted on 04/14/2006 7:34:21 AM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah" = Shaitan's most successful disguise)
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To: doc30
From what I understand, the traditional Egyptian timeline conventionally acceptet by Egyptologists makes it impossible for the Exodus to be anything other than a myth.

However, there was an Egyptologist some years ago who pointed out some inconsistencies with the traditional timeline. He pointed out that instead of an unbroken succession, there was a lot of overlap that was not taken into account by Egyptologists.

As a result, he put together a new time line and found out some interesting things. I don't remember it all, but I do remember him asking why the Hittites were able to conquer Egypt - which was the superpower of its day. Furthermore, the Hittites expected to gain easy victories - which they did.
43 posted on 04/14/2006 7:34:57 AM PDT by Frumious Bandersnatch
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To: timsbella
Jesus said:

He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'
-- Luke 16:41

44 posted on 04/14/2006 7:35:28 AM PDT by XR7
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Comment #45 Removed by Moderator

To: Galena Nevada
The need to explain God's miracles and power in view of our finite understanding is senseless.

I respectfully disagree - otherwise why did God give us such inquiring minds and intense curiosity?

46 posted on 04/14/2006 7:41:16 AM PDT by Tokra (I think I'll retire to Bedlam.)
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To: BibChr

Years ago I read that, according to some oral history, YHWH was originally pronouced with 11 syllables. I've long since lost the source of that, and I have no memory of where I got it, so there. ;-)


47 posted on 04/14/2006 7:45:08 AM PDT by savedbygrace (SECURE THE BORDERS FIRST (I'M YELLING ON PURPOSE))
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To: TXnMA

That's it! Where did you find them?


48 posted on 04/14/2006 7:58:46 AM PDT by Reaganesque
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To: ExcursionGuy84

Why do you think Moe, Curly and Shemp Horowitz of the Three Stooges changed their name to Howard. And they still got screwed.


49 posted on 04/14/2006 8:11:40 AM PDT by massgopguy (massgopguy)
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To: massgopguy
And they still got screwed.

Financially, yes they did. Even when Moe (legally named Moses) went before the Columbia Pictures Studio heads to negotiate for better pay, they laughed & mocked him.

To this day, the Stooges descendents are trying to get their fathers' well-deserved gain.

50 posted on 04/14/2006 8:16:42 AM PDT by ExcursionGuy84 ("Jesus, Your Love takes my breath away.")
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