Posted on 08/17/2008 2:13:47 PM PDT by forkinsocket
Biologists have constructed a genetic map of Europe showing the degree of relatedness between its various populations.
All the populations are quite similar, but the differences are sufficient that it should be possible to devise a forensic test to tell which country in Europe an individual probably comes from, said Manfred Kayser, a geneticist at the Erasmus University Medical Center in the Netherlands.
The map shows, at right, the location in Europe where each of the sampled populations live and, at left, the genetic relationship between these 23 populations. The map was constructed by Dr. Kayser, Dr. Oscar Lao and others, and appears in an article in Current Biology published on line on August 7.
The genetic map of Europe bears a clear structural similarity to the geographic map. The major genetic differences are between populations of the north and south (the vertical axis of the map shows north-south differences, the horizontal axis those of east-west). The area assigned to each population reflects the amount of genetic variation in it.
Europe has been colonized three times in the distant past, always from the south. Some 45,000 years ago the first modern humans entered Europe from the south. The glaciers returned around 20,000 years ago and the second colonization occurred about 17,000 years ago by people returning from southern refuges. The third invasion was that of farmers bringing the new agricultural technology from the Near East around 10,000 years ago.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
And I see that Dr. Kayser and Dr. Lao (and others) produced a graph using Eigenvector 1 und Eigenvector 2!
Can someone please explain this article to me in 25 words or less.
Damn! That global warming.
This is going to sound like a weird question, but I know almost nothing about genetics. When you inherit genes from your parents, you only inherit half of the DNA, right? So, they only inherited half of their parents DNA, and so forth. So is it possible that by three or four generations, the DNA from some of your ancestors is simply not passed on? I mean, it gets weeded out to the point where, say, I have no DNA at all from my dad’s father’s mom?
You inherit half of each, unless there is a mutation you don’t get something unique, unless there is a reinforcement of a trait due to genes from both.
You can lose a trait, certainly. None at all seems very unlikely after just three generations.
It’s not a perfect 50/50 split between mother and father. When the chromosomes of the sperm and egg line up together in meiosis, they form chiasmata, crosses. The tail end of one chromosome swops for the tail end of another chromosome, repeatedly, up to ten or twelve times for each chromosome (apart from X & Y). So you don’t end up with half of father’s and half of mother’s exact chromosomes, but a set of mixed chromosomes.
Europeans genetics vary semi-predictably according to their location.
Cavalli-Sforza came up with the same results twenty years ago, using less sophisticated analyses.
But Finns are weird.
Don’t know if I can make 25 word or less but basically:
Europe was settled in 3 waves. Europeans (and by extension Americans of European decent) are all the same people but there are little bitty differences.
What it all means is that Englishmen and Irishmen are more closely related than Northern Italians and Southern Italians - something some of us have believed for a long time. Therefore, Ireland should be come part of the UK and everything south of Castel Gandolfo should be declared an independent country and renamed North Lybia.
And Finns are weird.
What I don’t understand about this is why the Mongol and Turkish invasions of Europe or the Arab invasion of Spain didn’t have any effect on the genetics of Europe, or the Roman Empire for that matter.
There seems to be a lot more significant migrations and invasions in European history than the biologists are considering.
Ping.
Does that mean:
Socialists International Suck Underwear?
Stately Intellectuals Startle Uruguay?
So Irving Sews Up?
Some Inventors Seek Utopia?
Saxon Invaders Seem Ugly?
????
Sisu is a Finnish term that could be roughly translated into English as strength of will, determination, perseverance, and acting rationally in the face of adversity. The equivalent in English is "to have guts", and indeed, the word derives from sisus, which means something inner or interior. However, sisu has a long-term element in it; it is not momentary courage, but the ability to sustain the same.In other words: testicular fortitude, and then some.
Well, considering how much Arabs like to integrate with the population they infest, I think at least half of your question has been answered.
Ping
Who says they didn’t ?
More significant oddity, the Hungarians are right there in the bosom of Eastern European genetics, but they are a well-known invader race, with a language totally unrelated to any other in Europe but the Finns - and see how weird THEY are ! So the few thousand Asiatic Hungarian horse-nomads took over lands full of Slavic/Germanic farmers and gave them their language, but genetically, next to nothing.
The same is true of the Turks, btw. The modern people of Anatolia probably look very much like their ancestors did, who lived under the Byzantine Empire.
The answer is that of Cavalli-Sforza - conquests and invasions (where there isn’t wholesale population replacement) do not change the genetics of established agricultural populations very much, because there are generally LOTS more native farmers than invading overlords, these are always a drop in the genetic bucket.
Man, I’m all over the map.
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This map is completely outdated. Where is the evidence that a large part of European genes are now taimted with Arab and North African DNA?
This map is completely outdated. Where is the evidence that a large part of European genes are now taimted with Arab and North African DNA?
If I recall correctly, these are designed for historical studies, so researchers look for their samples in rural populations, as city populations (where you would find immigrants) are too mixed and do not represent the populations of the area even to the early modern era.
That said, even in France the Arab portion is rather small up to now. The future may be different.
ping
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jas3
Exceptional Finns, all right!
and then there are the Basque.
Southern Italians have more in common with the indigenous peoples of North Africa (Berbers) and Greeks than they do with the Irish.
It sickens me how so many people in the northeast mention "Irish and Italians" in the same breath, without acknowledging the strong cultural differences between both. Italians have more in common culturally with many Latin Americans, which is why they assimilate quickly when they immigrate to Latin America (while Latin American immigrants to Italy typically intermarry and don't form ghettos in said country).
Since you get language from your mother (hence the expression “mother tongue”) it has been argued that simple linguistic analsysis works just as well (and correlates with) genetic analsysis.
At the end of the day, Finns are different, Basques are different and a few others, and the rest are more alike then different. But then again, you already knew that from linguistics.
That because of all the intermarriage between Irish and Italians in Bayonne!
All the Italian chicks went for the Micks!
Irish and German go well together, as do Irish and Spanish (although the most famous Irish/Basque mix I can think of is Che Guevara).
Of course, Polish/Italian is the ethnic mix of superior people. Just ask Liberace, Curtis Sliwa, Tea Leoni and a certain Freeper. ;-)
If you subscribe to Mark Steyn’s thesis on demographics and Europe, which I do, then the map will look a lot more uniform in 40 years, and all the genetic information will tie back to the Middle East except for some old folks.
Ha! Kantele Girls Gone Wild!
"Not long ago, cytogenetic experts stirred up a controversy with their "ground-breaking" findings on the origins of the Finnish and Sami peoples. Cytogenetics is by no means a new tool in bioanthropological research, however. As early as the 1960s and '70s, Finnish researchers made the significant discovery that one quarter of the Finns' genetic stock is Siberian, and three quarters is European in origin. The Samis, however, are of different genetic stock: a mixture of distinctly western, but also eastern elements. If we examine the genetic links between the peoples of Europe, the Samis form a separate group unto themselves, and other Uralic peoples, too have a distinctive genetic profile."
My mother has mtDNA haplogroup 'V' as do 52% of the Skolt Sami.(Laplanders)
That does not explain Hungarians, whose language is also non-European (and related to Finnish).
And it really doesn’t distinguish Basques either, as their genetics really are spread through Spain and Southern France beyond the borders of their language, as shown by Cavalli-Sforza. Instead of being a DISTINCT population, they represent instead an inflection point, with their genetic influence receding gradually away with distance from the Basque lands.
The Genographic Project (Have Your DNA Checked, Find Your Roots)
12,000 Years Ago
Today almost 70% of Europeans are (yDNA) haplogroup R1b and (mtDNA) haplogroup 'H'. (Haplogroup 'H' came out of the same Iberian Ice Age refuge as R1b)
My dad's mother is mtDNA U5a and is related to 9,000 year old Cheddar Man
8,000 Years Ago
YEC INTREP
” Therefore, Ireland should be come part of the UK and everything south of Castel Gandolfo should be declared an independent country and renamed North Lybia.”
Or perhaps, England should be part of Ireland, the part where they put their garbage and target practice. You know God made booze so the Irish couldn’t rule the world. ;<)
Regards,
O’Neal decendent
“Man, I’m all over the map.”
Ha! You are a true American Mongrel. Be proud.
Interesting. Why do you think that is, Clemenza, because of the similarities in language, religion?
We Basques didn't cross into Europe, Europe crossed over us.
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Bush's Fault!!!
Took the FTDNA plunge last year, and have unfort. not gotten any matches. Which is disappointing, since my surname (via Y-DNA) is likely the only way I am going to be able to extend that line earlier than 1775.
I have also taken a hiatus from teaching my genealogy class at the library. Time just isn't there to do the volunteer work I used to do. When I do get to research, I've been using my Ancestry subscription, again time has just not allowed me to travel and focus on the libraries, courthouses, and cemeteries like I need to. I may start again after retirement, but..... till then.
I know a ridiculous number of couples who are Irish/Italian pairings, myself being one example.
People keep trying to shove the “Catholic connection” down my throat but I don’t buy that, possibly because I [and several other halves of the couples] are furiously Protestant.
[my theory is that we’re the only two races who can put up with each other’s raging tempers]....LOL
interesing.
i’m probably 1/2 it2,
1/8 de2 or de1,
and 3/8 amer ind.
“Hello Aunt B, it’s been a long time. How has your research been going?”
As you know, it never ends! I did manage to get part of it into a book.
http://jesusweptanamericanstory.blogspot.com/
I don't know the beverage preference of Poles.
What say you ?
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