Posted on 11/07/2008 9:20:01 AM PST by Khepri
America Serves
"When you choose to serve -- whether it's your nation, your community or simply your neighborhood -- you are connected to that fundamental American ideal that we want life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness not just for ourselves, but for all Americans. That's why it's called the American dream."
The Obama Administration will call on Americans to serve in order to meet the nation’s challenges. President-Elect Obama will expand national service programs like AmeriCorps and Peace Corps and will create a new Classroom Corps to help teachers in underserved schools, as well as a new Health Corps, Clean Energy Corps, and Veterans Corps. Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by developing a plan to require 50 hours of community service in middle school and high school and 100 hours of community service in college every year. Obama will encourage retiring Americans to serve by improving programs available for individuals over age 55, while at the same time promoting youth programs such as Youth Build and Head Start.
“How is it wrong when Obama proposes national service, but right when our presidential candidate did it?”
McCain has a plan for national service? That’s news to me. Saying that people should consider helping others through the already existing religious and secular institutions isn’t a “plan” in any meaningful sense of the word.
Therein lies the difference between the two.
Spitzer at volokh.com writes:
“The difference between the McCain and Obama proposals is simple: McCain’s service is voluntary and uncontrolled/undirected by the government, whereas Obama’s is compulsory (in effect) and subject to the control or direction of the government. The former type of service may strengthen communities but does not aggrandize the government, whereas the latter empowers the government without necessarily helping the community. Put another way, one talks about Burke’s “little platoons” while the other emulates the work gangs and political action youth committees more commonly found in totalitarian societies.”
The Federal Government is BROKE. They have more programs than they can afford. Obama is proposing more and more programs, but the money doesn’t exist to pay for them. What about the issues of millions of very part-time volunteers and the supervision they would require? And the paperwork necessary to track it—from schools that can barely meet the no-child-left behind requirements? And the additional employees needed to track it all?
Would you care to explain how it's different when McCain does it in 2001, or are you content to see the GOP swerve further left while you hurl churlish insults?
Why on earth do you assume I didn't complain about it then. FYI, McCain was my second to last choice to be our nominee.
As I said mountainbunny, I'll complain about it NOW. It doesn't mean that I didn't complain about it before. It was you who said that NOW is not the time to complain.
If you don't like that I complain now(LOL!) then fell free to hop off your high hill.
Okay?
Thanks!
Even numbers on the north and east sides of streets, odd numbers on the south and west sides: one of Bonaparte’s less insidious bureaucratic innovations.
Do you NOT get that? It might not be picking up garbage...but it may be something that I find equally objectionable and against my values (speaking generically). If the master "LIST" of exceptable community service oppurtunities clashes with my values...in THIS society of FREE CHOICE...I WIN...or at least I used to until people such as yourself started selling out their freedom little pieces at a time.
You can package it anyway you like...put pretty little bows on it...nice little ribbons...but it still clashes with the fact the 13th amendment states the Federal government CANNOT require involuntary service (except for those convicted of crimes) from my child. Maybe you want to wipe your backside with the constitution (or maybe just that part)...but if you are willing to sell out that part...it won't be long until they take away the 1st and 2nd amendment from you too.
Wow, this forum just became a severe waste of time.
the problem with rightwing nut jobs is that fundamentally, they are just like liberal sissies...they find it better to speak loudly and ignorantly opine the to discuss and find the right solution.
volunteering for high school credit has nothing to do with slavery, the draft, or coercion...
what bothers me about “america’s choice” is that O is going to put gov’t above private ownership and capitalism.
he will bankrupt coal companies; start cap and trade for a carbon tax that has nothing to do with ‘global warming’; and use punitive tax measures to reinforce the class warfare that they’ve created. this is how Chavez will stay in power.
all we need now is for him to threaten the oil companies with nationalization and give the company to the workers....
he might take the farm land as well.
try to discuss something to reach the conclusion instead of being a naif, or worse, a lemming...
and for the record, i am an eagle.
I don’t know you guys, maybe we should just play nice. I mean, we can’t get angry and ugly about this. We’ll drive people away if we don’t play along. We don’t want to alienate the nation. /s
I am so sick and tired of Conservatives that don’t want us to play hardball.
We should fight Obama every single step of the way. The leftists fought us every step of the way. It’s time we stood up like real men in Congress and the Senate, and fight this with every ounce of our power.
Filibuster should become the only operative word in the Senate of the United States.
We may not be able to stop all of it, but we can certain make a dent.
Carville wanted war. I think it’s time. We have capitulated until our back is against a wall. The end of that noise!
13th Amendment:
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Not coercion? Hello? No servitude, no diploma... That’s not being forced? I really don’t think that there would even be much choice in the volunteerism that would be required.
Inspiring people to do good is the answer. Not forcing them.
“Wow, this forum just became a severe waste of time.
the problem with rightwing nut jobs “
You are right. and as sad as I will be to see you go, please let me know where to donate for the farewell party.
Who the voters? They don’t know anything about this guy! The news media game him a pass!
Shove it up your collectivist black hole where the light dont shine!
Exactly! We've got to resist this crap from the onset and let this little despot and his minions like Ayers and all that Hollywood elitist garbage know that we're not going to take it.
Let's keep our nation FREE!
Then I suggest you move on. Obama's proposal was not just for high school credit...it was for junior high and college aged individuals as well...and if you cannot UNDERSTAND how it is WRONG for the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT to REQUIRE service to organizations that might be against the individuals beliefs...then you are beyond help and do not belong here.
coal mines build character.
I strongly suggest you take a moment and read what Senator McCain wrote in 2001. It was not secular. It was not religious. It was largely an expansion of AmeriCorps, a federal program.
McCain's plan was not voluntary.
Senator McCain wrote: If we are to have a resurgence of patriotic service in this country, then programs like AmeriCorps must be expanded and changed in ways that inspire the nation. There should be more focus on meeting national goals and on making short-term service, both civilian and military, a rite of passage for young Americans.
Also:
For example, an important responsibility of our armed services is peacekeeping around the world. Often, this involves non-military activities such as constabulary work. The military should explore whether short-term enlistees could fulfill these responsibilities, freeing other personnel to perform more traditional military duties.
I don't know about you, but when I volunteer, I can walk away from it anytime I like. No one walks away from being "enlisted", the word Senator McCain used. "Rites of passage" are what everyone in a given group does. It wouldn't be a rite of passage otherwise.
The Federal Government is BROKE. They have more programs than they can afford. Obama is proposing more and more programs, but the money doesn’t exist to pay for them. What about the issues of millions of very part-time volunteers and the supervision they would require? And the paperwork necessary to track it—from schools that can barely meet the no-child-left behind requirements? And the additional employees needed to track it all?
Don't blame me. I did not support Senator McCain and did not vote for him. I was well aware of all this before he ran for the presidency this time and do not support anyone who wants to conscript American youth. I'm simply shocked at everyone who did support McCain and his policies and now don't like it when Obama suggests the exact same policies.
The Federal government is broke? It's been broke for a while. That doesn't change the fact that Senator McCain's article was written four years before Barack Obama was elected to Congress. That doesn't change the fact that McCain's article focuses on how Americorps doesn't do enough because it isn't large enough and relied solely on volunteers.
Hey, kids! Welcome to the Classroom Corps!
You and your cohorts are now officially messmates in ‘Classroom Brigade Elian Gonzales!’ Congratulations!
This summer, you will become part of an Americorps deployment to Kenya to assist in clearing the ground and pouring the foundations for a new complex of government buildings. Your deployment will last four weeks. Give or take. (Mostly give, ha!)
*ahem* You’ll receive training at a series of weekend drills before the deployment. Please form lines to receive your uniforms, feldschmutze, web gear, and entrenching to—shovel!!!
You're right. It is wrong for the Federal Government to REQUIRE community service from citizens at all, unless it is associated with the penal system.
And yes, I am also against a military draft, just in case that comes up.
I've done volunteer work and I enjoy it. But I will not be TOLD by the government to do so.
I guess they will when homeschoolers and private schools get federal funding.
My SIL lives in Vermont. The town requires kids to do 20 hours of community service each month. Her 16 yo son runs the stage lights at the local community theater. The poor kid spends his evenings hanging around with drama queens at the theater. My wife is sure the kid will end up gay. Sad!
If public schools would stop accepting federal money, it would free them up from a LOT of things - I wish more school districts would think about it.
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