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Birds Didnít Evolve from Dinosaurs (Evos forced to invent an even older common ancestor!)
CEH ^ | June 9, 2009

Posted on 06/09/2009 5:33:16 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts

June 9, 2009 — “The findings add to a growing body of evidence in the past two decades that challenge some of the most widely-held beliefs about animal evolution.”  That statement is not being made by creationists, but by science reporters describing work at Oregon State University that cast new doubt on the idea that birds evolved from theropod dinosaurs.  The main idea: their leg bones and lungs are too different.    

Science Daily’s report has a diagram of the skeleton showing...

(Excerpt) Read more at creationsafaris.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; US: Oregon
KEYWORDS: antiscienceevos; belongsinreligion; birds; catholic; christian; creation; darwiniacreligion; dinosaur; dinosaurs; evolution; flamebait; fools; godsgravesglyphs; goodgodimnutz; intelligentdesign; piltdownman; science; storkzilla
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1 posted on 06/09/2009 5:33:16 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: Finny; vladimir998; Coyoteman; allmendream; LeGrande; GunRunner; cacoethes_resipisco; ...

Ping!


2 posted on 06/09/2009 5:34:03 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

Memo sent to Discovery Channel....


3 posted on 06/09/2009 5:36:04 PM PDT by cranked
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To: GodGunsGuts
So how can there be "evidence" if everything happened by magic?

The Earth is old. Get used to it.

4 posted on 06/09/2009 5:36:29 PM PDT by humblegunner
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To: GodGunsGuts

I dunno—our birds seem to think they are dinosaurs. They certainly have no fear of attacking people.


5 posted on 06/09/2009 5:36:45 PM PDT by rbg81 (DRAIN THE SWAMP!!)
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To: GodGunsGuts

So what!


6 posted on 06/09/2009 5:36:52 PM PDT by Lucius Cornelius Sulla ("men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." -- Edmund Burke)
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To: GodGunsGuts

Yet another myth blown apart!


7 posted on 06/09/2009 5:41:31 PM PDT by SoldierDad (Proud Dad of a U.S. Army Infantry Soldier presently instructing at Ft. Benning.)
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To: GodGunsGuts
Their flow-through lungs would collapse if the femur moved like it does in mammals, reptiles and dinosaurs. It’s really strange that no one realized this before, said Devon Quick, professor of zoology at OSU

Maybe they weren't listening? I remember discussing much of what's in this article nearly 20 years ago.

8 posted on 06/09/2009 5:42:10 PM PDT by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: SoldierDad
Actually, there have been two very different kinds of birds in Earth's history. The first type had no breastbone. They don't make it past the K-T boundary. The second type has a breastbone. They appear to have had a branch of "wading birds" that made it past the K-T boundary.

I think birds are classed with the crocidilians, not necessarily with the velociraptors, although they, too, developed feathers.

9 posted on 06/09/2009 5:44:58 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla
Well, seeing how the Evos are in full retreat on just about every conceivable front (from Darwin's so-called “tree of life”, to “junk” DNA, to the failure of phylogenetic trees to predict “known” evolutionary histories...you name it) it would seem that A) it is no longer possible to be an “intellectually fulfilled atheist” any more and B) it is time for the government supported and government protected Temple of Darwin fanatics to admit that the HMS is sinking, and sinking badly.

In the meantime, of course, the HMS Creation is shipshape, standing tall, battle ready, and is ready to take on the next materialist religion that tries to masquerade as science.

10 posted on 06/09/2009 5:47:55 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: SoldierDad

Notice how they are getting blown apart at an ever-increasing rate. Man would I hate to be a Temple of Darwin devotee right now!


11 posted on 06/09/2009 5:49:01 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts
How about a "Temple of DNA" devotee ~ you were aware, no doubt, that bird DNA is "simpler" and "shorter" than mammalian DNA. That's been known ever since DNA was discovered.

So, a question for the CREOs, did God make a mistake when he created bird DNA which he then fixed when he made mammalian DNA?

Hmmm?!?!?!

12 posted on 06/09/2009 5:51:40 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: humblegunner

Since we are talking about origins, and not science, everything that happened has “evidence” — the evidence is the forensic observable evidence from which we can speculate as to the causes which led to those observations.

Confusing origins with imperical science is a common error.


13 posted on 06/09/2009 5:52:27 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: scripter

They were too busy ridiculing people who didn’t believe the hype to realise they were wrong.


14 posted on 06/09/2009 5:53:06 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: muawiyah

In computer science, some programs have really small number of lines of code, and some have lots of code. Both seem to function according to their respective purposes, and few people argue that only one of the two is correct, and the other is a mistake.


15 posted on 06/09/2009 5:55:01 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: GodGunsGuts
Oh, brother. First Pluto is a planet, and then it's not a planet. First, the Andes mountains are 6 million years old and then they're 12 million years old. And now this.

Tell me again why so many people place so much faith in scientists?

16 posted on 06/09/2009 5:56:00 PM PDT by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all. -- Texas Eagle)
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To: CharlesWayneCT

That’s not true in theology. Hence the question. Let’s see what the CREO hardliners have to say ~ no doubt they’re furiously searching the internet trying to see if this one has ever been asked before.


17 posted on 06/09/2009 5:56:51 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: GodGunsGuts

So tell me, which of these changes were developed by “creation scientists”? None.

Which of these changes were developed by theologians from biblican revelation? None.

Science learns from evidence. Creationism denies the evidence.


18 posted on 06/09/2009 5:57:53 PM PDT by donmeaker (Invicto)
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To: muawiyah

The blueprint for a single engine Cessna is simpler than the blueprint for one of their twin engine Citations. Does that Cessna made a mistake when it created the single engine plane, which they then fixed when created the Citation???


19 posted on 06/09/2009 5:58:32 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: Texas Eagle
Dating the Andes could be a problem ~ they are relatively RECENT as mountains go.

The mountains around here are very ancient ~ among the oldest ~ except, of course, for the even older mountain chain buried under thousands of feet of solid rock in Indiana!

Those suckers are OLD.

20 posted on 06/09/2009 5:59:02 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: GodGunsGuts

Disclaimer: Creation-Evolution Headlines includes links to many external sites, but takes no responsibility for the accuracy or legitimacy of their content. Inclusion of an external link is strictly for the reader’s convenience, and does not necessarily constitute endorsement of the material or its authors, owners, or sponsors.

The disclaimer on the website you used for reference should not use links if it does not check the accuracy of the content. It does not show much faith in the information that it publishes.


21 posted on 06/09/2009 5:59:16 PM PDT by MissouriConservative (Let the purging of the RINOs begin in 2010. - MissouriConservative)
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To: GodGunsGuts

Are the Cessna design engineers GOD?


22 posted on 06/09/2009 5:59:37 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: scripter

Regarding how birds breathe, I recall lectures in college in 1963 that pretty well covered the waterfront about how birds breathe and what they have to do and not do to keep on breathing.


23 posted on 06/09/2009 6:00:43 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: GodGunsGuts

Actually, the methods of Evos were used to evaluate these characteristics, and the methods of Creationistas had nothing to say at all.

So who is irrelevant?


24 posted on 06/09/2009 6:01:20 PM PDT by donmeaker (Invicto)
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To: GodGunsGuts
Worshipers of Darwin - a man who himself decried his own theory.
25 posted on 06/09/2009 6:01:54 PM PDT by SoldierDad (Proud Dad of a U.S. Army Infantry Soldier presently instructing at Ft. Benning.)
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To: GodGunsGuts

More and more I am realizing that seeing the truth of evolution and even the value of science is a gift of enlightenment. There is no way you can convince anyone, since they have all the same evidence and still cannot see it. Ponder: Why were there only three Magi?


26 posted on 06/09/2009 6:01:54 PM PDT by firebrand
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To: muawiyah
Dating the Andes could be a problem ~ they are relatively RECENT as mountains go.

Heh, heh. That's kinda my point. How can we be sure the age of other mountain ranges are accurate?

I place no faith in scientists when it comes to stuff like the age of the earth and evolution and the origin of life.

When it comes to those things, they don't know jack. They just make stuff up as they go along.

27 posted on 06/09/2009 6:02:07 PM PDT by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all. -- Texas Eagle)
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To: firebrand

One camel, of course.


28 posted on 06/09/2009 6:03:30 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: GodGunsGuts

To say that it was first thought that evolution took a particular path, and with more knowledge they think it took a different path does not falsify evolution, it falsifies young earth creationism.


29 posted on 06/09/2009 6:04:06 PM PDT by Lucius Cornelius Sulla ("men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." -- Edmund Burke)
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To: Texas Eagle
Real easy to know Indiana's mountains are old ~ they are encased in solid limestone deposits. In fact, we can figure out how long it took for that limestone to settle in and cover the mountains.

Plus, the mountains had to first be made (uplifted), then sunk below sea level (which was much easier "way back when" since virtually no land at all was above sea level ~ we've lost that water to the interior of the planet.

Then, the limestone producing critters had to produce it and it had to sink to the bottom and cover the mountains.

Today those layers of limestone are thousands of feet thick in places.

30 posted on 06/09/2009 6:06:11 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

No, they are not. But they are made in His image.

The point is, just because a biological organism is simpler than another organism does not mean that it was a mistake. Humans come up with simple designs for specific purposes all the time. Why should said simpler designs imply a mistake just because they are simple?


31 posted on 06/09/2009 6:06:51 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

The History Channel depicted dinosaurs looking like colorful feather dusters with legs. Keeps up they’ll need new names like: Chickasaurus and T. Featherbeddus.


32 posted on 06/09/2009 6:12:38 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Texas Eagle
That has to be one of the most ignorant things I have ever read on FR.

Astronomers could decide to call Pluto a “zgnorph” and it would make absolutely no difference to science or the scientific method.

Tell you again why people place so much faith in scientists?

Vaccinations
Antibiotics
Medicine
the computer
The moon shot
the atomic bomb.

I fear for that segment of America taught to hate and fear that which they, by their own willing ignorance, will never understand.

People have confidence in science because its findings are replicable, subject to peer review, and revision in light of new data.

People have confidence in science because it works and has a demonstrated record of success.

33 posted on 06/09/2009 6:13:08 PM PDT by allmendream ("Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be redistributed?")
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To: GodGunsGuts
You are suggesting there's some sort of "time sequence" in God's plan of creation?

For instance, create birds first, then examine design and improve it by designing land animals on the next day ~ and maybe reflect on that bird design to come up with the dinosaur design?

I suggest you take a good look at WHAT Genesis says God creates on each day and think about that in terms of what was going on in God's mind when he "improved", "changed", "fixed", "adjusted" etc. His designs for critters.

We can look at the record (and whether it appeared in an hour or a billion years doesn't matter), the first land animals appear before birds appear! Yet, Genesis has the birds appearing a day before the land animals.

Did God perhaps turn the entire surface of the Earth UPSIDE DOWN to trick us, or what?

34 posted on 06/09/2009 6:14:36 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: allmendream
That has to be one of the most ignorant things I have ever read on FR. Astronomers could decide to call Pluto a “zgnorph” and it would make absolutely no difference to science or the scientific method.

Amen. People would place blind faith in scientists regardless.

35 posted on 06/09/2009 6:17:04 PM PDT by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all. -- Texas Eagle)
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To: count-your-change

There’s evidence some dinosaurs had feathers. They’re just modified scales ~ another form of hair!


36 posted on 06/09/2009 6:17:33 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: SoldierDad
The good thing about being a creationist is you can keep repeating the same untruths and ridiculous assertions and nobody seems to care.

Darwin did not decry his own theory, neither would it be relevant if he did.

Newton shouting out on his death bed that “Force equals mass times acceleration CUBED” wouldn't change the fact that force equals mass times acceleration squared was in fact the truth.

Lady Hope was just another “liar for the Lord” like the idiots in Dover. She has zero credibility.

37 posted on 06/09/2009 6:18:14 PM PDT by allmendream ("Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be redistributed?")
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To: firebrand

It’s not a gift, it’s a curse.

Romans 1:20


38 posted on 06/09/2009 6:18:17 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: humblegunner

The “evidence” is that all of the evolution theories don’t hold up under scientific scrutiny.

Only a small fraction of we creationists are tied to “young earth”.


39 posted on 06/09/2009 6:18:35 PM PDT by G Larry (ObamaCare = "DYING IN LINE!")
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To: firebrand
"Ponder: Why were there only three Magi?" I will ponder it if you can show me where scripture numbered the Magi.
40 posted on 06/09/2009 6:19:07 PM PDT by BuddhaBrown (Path to enlightenment: Four right turns, then go straight until you see the Light!)
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To: GodGunsGuts

Odd interpretation of that verse, that one is cursed by understanding evolution and science. Anyway, we’ll have to ask Paul when we meet him.


41 posted on 06/09/2009 6:21:31 PM PDT by firebrand
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To: muawiyah

==You are suggesting there’s some sort of “time sequence” in God’s plan of creation?

Yes.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=genesis%201:1-2:3&version=31

==I suggest you take a good look at WHAT Genesis says God creates on each day and think about that in terms of what was going on in God’s mind when he “improved”, “changed”, “fixed”, “adjusted” etc. His designs for critters.

God didn’t have to improve, change, or fix anything:

Genesis 1:31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.


42 posted on 06/09/2009 6:24:16 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts
In the meantime, of course, the HMS Creation is shipshape, standing tall, battle ready, and is ready to take on the next materialist religion that tries to masquerade as science.

Uh, the article supports evolution. It also tears down your mantra about how evolutionists all think alike ...

43 posted on 06/09/2009 6:25:17 PM PDT by ColdWater
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To: Texas Eagle
Tell me again why so many people place so much faith in scientists?

Because they design the equipment that you use to post with.

44 posted on 06/09/2009 6:26:17 PM PDT by ColdWater
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To: G Larry
Only a small fraction of we creationists are tied to “young earth”.

I am assuming that by that statement you are an OEC. Do you think YEC'rs are looney?

45 posted on 06/09/2009 6:27:47 PM PDT by ColdWater
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To: BuddhaBrown
You're right. It never says three. I think the "three" comes from the three gifts.

But it never says swarms of the awed and curious either. There were not lots of people who realized something was breathtakingly different in the heavens, as the constellations swept on by as usual but one humongous star stayed where it was. Magi by definition are not the hoi polloi. Few, if not three, probably.

46 posted on 06/09/2009 6:28:17 PM PDT by firebrand
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To: ColdWater
Because they design the equipment that you use to post with.

Therefore, evolution is true? The earth is the result of a random cosmic explosion? Life began in a swamp? Global warming is a consequence of man-made activity? Your great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather was a baboon?

Wow. I wishes I was as smart as you science worshippers.

47 posted on 06/09/2009 6:29:05 PM PDT by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all. -- Texas Eagle)
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To: ColdWater
Good luck with that!

Can't even get the OEC’s to say they think that the Geocentrics are loons.

They take umbrage at properly being placed in the same category; but they won't say why they think it is an insult.

48 posted on 06/09/2009 6:29:46 PM PDT by allmendream ("Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be redistributed?")
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To: GodGunsGuts

“Well, seeing how the Evos are in full retreat on just about every conceivable front”

Keep on tokin’ my man.


49 posted on 06/09/2009 6:30:12 PM PDT by RFEngineer
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To: firebrand

There will be no need to ask anyone anything when we join Paul:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=12&version=31


50 posted on 06/09/2009 6:30:19 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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