Posted on 12/21/2001 5:11:00 AM PST by blam
Early Christians hid the origins of the Bethlehem star
13:15 21 December 01
Marcus Chown
A US astronomer claims he has found the first mention of the star of Bethlehem outside the Bible. The reference is in a 4th-century manuscript written by a Roman astrologer and Christian convert called Firmicus Maternus.
Photo: Bridgeman Art Library
Michael Molnar, formerly of Rutgers University in New Jersey, is the originator of the idea that the star of Bethlehem was not a spectacular astronomical event such as a supernova or a comet but an obscure astrological one.
The event would nevertheless have been of great significance to ancient Roman astrologers. After studying the symbolism on Roman coins, he concluded that the "star" was in fact a double eclipse of Jupiter in a rare astrological conjunction that occurred in Aries on 20 March, 6 BC, and again on 17 April, 6 BC (New Scientist magazine, 23 December 1995).
Molnar believed that Roman astrologers would have interpreted such an event as signifying the birth of a divine king in Judea. But he lacked proof. Now he says he has found it, in the Mathesis, a book written by Maternus in AD 334. Maternus described an astrological event involving an eclipse of Jupiter by the Moon in Aries, and said that it signified the birth of a divine king.
No names
"Maternus did not mention Jesus's name," says Molnar. "But Roman astrology was a popular craze at the time and everyone reading the book would have known the reference was to Jesus and that the astrological event was the star of Bethlehem."
So why did Maternus not mention Jesus by name? According to Molnar, early Christians hated pagan beliefs and did not want to justify the Biblical story with astrological mumbo-jumbo. The idea that the stars govern our fate flew in the face of belief in a Christian God as the controlling force in the Universe.
"Being a pagan who had converted to Christianity during his lifetime, Firmicus was torn," says Molnar. "Hence his use of astrology to support the Christian story, but in a veiled way."
According to Molnar, it was essential to early Christians that the true nature of the star be hidden, otherwise theologians would be mired in debate about celestial influences that were not part of Christianity. So they buried the knowledge of the star's astrological roots and in time it was forgotten.
"I take Molnar's work quite seriously," says Owen Gingerich, a historian of astronomy at Harvard University. "Anything he comes up with along these lines has to be considered as being very likely correct."
13:15 21 December 01
Again, I re-post the other question to you...
"And, since you have obviously thought out your reply based upon your understanding of the Bible, I can assume, that as an intellegent individual, you have examined the Bible thoroughly, or at least have read it, prior to making such a bold claim. With that in mind, please tell us what you have found the main message of the Bible to be."
Please, try not to be evasive this time...
We continue to await your thoughtful reply.
(Exodus 13:21-23) He took not away the pillar of the cloud by day, nor the pillar of fire by night, from before the people.Sorry, couldn't resist.(1 Timothy 3:14-16) But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
Pssst....separate.
You are arguing for the sake of arguing.
You made the claim in post #35 the the Bible is "legend and myth". Substantiate your claims. Show us what you know of the subject, with clear and verifiable proof. The burden of proof is upon you.
Again...for the third time...I ask you this question...
"And, since you have obviously thought out your reply based upon your understanding of the Bible, I can assume, that as an intellegent individual, you have examined the Bible thoroughly, or at least have read it, prior to making such a bold claim. With that in mind, please tell us what you have found the main message of the Bible to be."
And again...for the third time...we await your thoughtful reply...
We're beginning to believe that you cannot answer the question, because you have never read the number one best selling book on the planet, yet claim the ability to make literary judgement upon it. So, for the third time, please answer the question.
If you haven't read it, or studied it, then at least step up and admit that you have spoken out of ignorance about subjects you really have no knowledge about...or, just answer the question.
You have made open claims that you should be able to substantiate, so please do so.
We continue to await...
Would you care to tackle the question that he has ignored three times?
There shall not be found among you
any one that makes his son or his daughter to pass through the fire,
or that uses divination or sorcery,
or an observer of signs, or a witch, (Deuteronomy 8:10)
Thus says the LORD: "Learn not the way of the nations,
nor be concerned over the signs of the heavens
because the nations are dismayed at them,
for the customs of the peoples are false. (Jeremiah 10:2-3)
For thou hast rejected thy people,
the house of Jacob,
because they are full of diviners from the east
and of soothsayers like the Philistines,
and they strike hands with foreigners.
Their land is filled with silver and gold,
and there is no end to their treasures (Isaiah 2:6-7)
Please see my #55 for an explanation as to why Jews might have been uncomfortable with the notion of the stars indicating the birth of the messiah.
There was an occultation of Saturn by the moon just a couple of weeks ago. My astrologer is vague on the meaning of this. Perhaps I don't pay her enough.
We at FR take great effort in citing sources for the claims that we post. You still have yet to substantiate your claims with one iota of proof and upon being cornered in your false claims, have proven to be evasive in every response. What I ask from you is simple.
For you to make such a broad claim about the Bible being "legend and myth", it is incumbent upon you to prove such a claim. If you cannot cite one "proof" for your argument, then at least answer the second question, for in order for you to have drawn such a conclusion, thinking people will believe that you have actually read the work of literature that you attempt to mock.
So...for the fourth time...I'll repost the very simple question for you to respond to. It isn't a difficult question at all, but your answer will clearly show whether you have even read the Bible or not and will immediately tell whether you are qualified to make the "legend and myth" claim that you have put forward...regardless of the fact that you have yet offered no proof to your claims.
"...since you have obviously thought out your reply based upon your understanding of the Bible, I can assume, that as an intellegent individual, you have examined the Bible thoroughly, or at least have read it, prior to making such a bold claim. With that in mind, please tell us what you have found the main message of the Bible to be."
Please, at least answer this question, since you refuse to offer the proof of your"legend and myth" claims.
...still waiting...
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