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Native American Origins Debated (now with DNA analysis)
Tucson Citizen ^ | October 11, 2002 | Paul L. Allen

Posted on 10/12/2002 8:37:42 AM PDT by Tancred

Edited on 05/07/2004 5:37:47 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Scientists say DNA evidence points to central Siberia while Native Americans say mythology and beliefs are more important.

The theory has been around for years. The proof, however, that today's Native American ancestors came here via the Bering Strait and Alaska has been slow to follow.

It's now here.


(Excerpt) Read more at tucsoncitizen.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: archaeology; dna; economic; epigraphyandlanguage; genetics; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; helixmakemineadouble; history; indians; indigenous; mythology; nativeamericans; siberia
I think the Siberian origin is conclusive, considering the DNA analysis and the comparison to other cultures in Siberia (but notice how PC has made the scientists so defensive!). And after 10,000 years of isolation or so, of course there would be some divergence in language, mythology, et al.
1 posted on 10/12/2002 8:37:42 AM PDT by Tancred
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To: Tancred
So...where's my casino ?
2 posted on 10/12/2002 9:02:01 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: Tancred
Scientists say DNA evidence points to central Siberia

Perfect evidence of why we shouldn't refer to them as "Native Americans" I always refer to them as "Siberian Americans"

3 posted on 10/12/2002 9:07:00 AM PDT by Archie Bunker on steroids
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To: Archie Bunker on steroids
Or American aborigines.

"Medicine man...come back."

"Burn him!" -The Paleface

4 posted on 10/12/2002 9:25:23 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: Eric in the Ozarks; blam
I also want my casino.
5 posted on 10/12/2002 9:26:25 AM PDT by dennisw
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To: blam; PoisedWoman
anthropological ping
6 posted on 10/12/2002 9:56:35 AM PDT by I_Love_My_Husband
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To: Tancred
The oldest male ancestor lived 100,000 years ago, while the oldest female ancestor lived 250,00 years ago; wouldn't that mean that those really old women wore out all but one man over the course of about 150,000 years?

I guess our Y-chromo granddad must have been the first feminist man, and all of our modern protestations must be pretension.

7 posted on 10/12/2002 10:00:19 AM PDT by Old Professer
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To: Tancred
So...this means there's really no such thing as true Native Americans. Can we take our the reservations back etc., and stop funding welfare for them?
8 posted on 10/12/2002 10:00:26 AM PDT by I_Love_My_Husband
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To: RightWhale
ping!
9 posted on 10/12/2002 10:14:07 AM PDT by Black Agnes
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
Pssst, there's no such thing as 'true Europeans' either probably. Every nation is a nation of immigrants. It just depends on where you choose to draw the 'here before' line.
10 posted on 10/12/2002 10:15:00 AM PDT by Black Agnes
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To: Tancred
Something else to chew on:

Sand-covered Huns City Unearthed

The Proto-Celts once lived in the Altai mountains.

11 posted on 10/12/2002 10:45:53 AM PDT by blam
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To: stand watie
OOp, should have pinged you too :). (I'd love to do dna analysis of my family to see if we could determine 'what' my GGrandfather was, exactly. We know 'Indian' but have no tribe! :(. )
12 posted on 10/12/2002 10:46:30 AM PDT by Black Agnes
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To: blam
Hee, wouldn't it be interesting if the Scots and NA branches of my tree were just long lost kin really? *laugh*.
13 posted on 10/12/2002 10:48:00 AM PDT by Black Agnes
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To: Tancred
First Americans
14 posted on 10/12/2002 10:48:05 AM PDT by blam
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To: Black Agnes
"(I'd love to do dna analysis of my family to see if we could determine 'what' my GGrandfather was, exactly. We know 'Indian' but have no tribe! :(. )"

Have you ever done any genealogy on your family? If they are, in fact, Indian, the Mormon church is supposed to have very elaborate genealogical files on Indians. I don't know this for sure, but I have been told this by Mormons.

15 posted on 10/12/2002 10:53:03 AM PDT by nanny
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To: Tancred
Earliest Americans Seen as More Diverse

Tuesday, July 31, 2001

Ancient peoples only loosely related to modern Asians crossed the Arctic land bridge to settle America about 15,000 years ago, according to a study offering new evidence that the Western Hemisphere hosted a more genetically diverse population at a much earlier time than previously thought.

The early immigrants most closely resembled the prehistoric Jomon people of Japan and their closest modern descendants, the Ainu, from the Japanese island of Hokkaido, the study said. Both the Jomon and Ainu have skull and facial characteristics more genetically similar to those of Europeans than to mainland Asians.

The immigrants settled throughout the hemisphere, and were in place when a second migration -- from mainland Asia -- came across the Bering Strait beginning 5,000 years ago and swept southward as far as modern-day Arizona and New Mexico, the study said. The second migration is the genetic origin of today's Eskimos, Aleuts and the Navajo of the U.S. southwest.

The study in today's edition of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences adds new evidence to help settle one of anthropology's most contentious debates: Who were the first Americans? And when did they come?

"When this has been done before, it's been done from one point of view," said University of Michigan physical anthropologist C. Loring Brace, who led the team of researchers from the United States, China and Mongolia who wrote the new report. "We try to put together more dimensions."

For decades, anthropologists held that the Americas were populated by a single migration from Asia about 11,200 years ago -- the supposed age of the earliest of the elegantly crafted, grooved arrowheads first found in the 1930s in Clovis, N.M.

By the end of the 1990s, however, the weight of evidence had pushed back the date of the first arrivals several thousand years. A site at Cactus Hill, near Richmond, may be 17,000 years old.

In Chile, scientists excavating a 12,500-year-old settlement at Monte Verde have found evidence of a human presence that may extend as far as 30,000 years.

But as the migration timetable slipped, additional questions and controversies have arisen. The 1996 discovery in Kennewick, Wash., of the nearly complete skeleton of a 9,300-year-old man with "apparently Caucasoid" features stimulated interest in the possibility of two or more migrations -- including a possible influx from Europe.

The new study attempted to answer this question by comparing 21 skull and facial characteristics from more than 10,000 ancient and modern populations in the Western Hemisphere and the Old World.

The findings provide strong evidence supporting earlier work suggesting that ancient Americans, like Kennewick Man, were descended from the Jomon, who walked from Japan to the Asian mainland and eventually to the Western Hemisphere on land bridges as the Earth began to warm up about 15,000 years ago at the end of the last Ice Age.

Brace described these early immigrants as "hunters and gatherers" following herds of mastodon first into North America, and eventually spreading throughout the hemisphere. Because the North -- in both Siberia and Canada -- was still extremely cold, only a limited number of people could make the trek and survive.

So immigration slowed, Brace said, for about 10 millennia. Then, about 5,000 years ago, agriculture developed on mainland Asia, enabling people to grow, store and carry food in more inhospitable areas. Movement resumed, but the newcomers were genetically Asians -- "distinct racially" from the first wave, Brace added.

The second wave spread across what is now Canada and came southward, cohabiting with the earlier settlers and eventually creating the hybrid population found by the Spaniards in the 15th century.

While many researchers agree on the likelihood of two migrations, both their timing and origin are matters of dispute. Brace's team suggests that both movements occurred after the last Ice Age began to moderate between 14,000 and 15,000 years ago.

But University of Pennsylvania molecular anthropologist Theodore Schurr said genetic data in American populations suggest that humans may have been in the Western Hemisphere much earlier -- 25,000 to 30,000 years ago.

This would mean that the first wave came before the "glacial maximum," between 14,000 and 20,000 years ago, when the Ice Age was at its fiercest and "human movement was practically impossible," Schurr said. "Were there people here before the last glacial maximum?" he asked. "The suggestion is, 'Yes.' "

To date, archaeological evidence for settlements earlier than 20,000 years ago is almost nonexistent, but Schurr suggested that researchers may have been reluctant to explore layers older than Clovis because of Clovis's predominance in the scientific community.

Still, neither Brace nor Schurr was prepared to endorse the view propounded by the National Museum of Natural History's Dennis Stanford: that at least some immigrants may have come from Ice Age Europe.

"The environment in Europe was so harsh that land mammals were very rare," Stanford said, "so they went to the beach." If these ancient people had boats, it was natural that they should go to sea to look for food, and edging further north and west, they would eventually reach the fish-rich Grand Banks. "From there they move right down the east coast" of North America, he said.

Stanford bases his theory on the presence of Clovis-like artifacts on the Iberian Peninsula around 20,000 years ago, and that there are more Clovis points in the eastern United States than in the West.

Also, he notes that genetic evidence links eastern Native American populations with ancient Europeans, but not with Asians.

He suggests the migrants moved on Ice Age land bridges from Iberia to Wales and eventually to Ireland, then set sail to hunt the seals and fish on the rim of the polar ice pack. They edged further and further west, and when they reached North America "they probably didn't even know they were there."

16 posted on 10/12/2002 10:53:06 AM PDT by blam
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To: Tancred
Who Really Discovered America?
17 posted on 10/12/2002 10:57:02 AM PDT by blam
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To: Tancred
Calico: A 200,000-Year-Old Site In The Americas
18 posted on 10/12/2002 10:59:24 AM PDT by blam
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To: nanny
Yes. Didn't know the Mormon aspect. Our problem is this. In the 1800's a lot of Indians had 'white' names and 'Indian' names. Lots of 'Indian' related documents contained the Indian name. If you don't have a direct link between the two names or just don't know the Indian name it's very difficult to find out who the heck you really are. Compounded is the fact that due to the political atmosphere in Reconstruction south this particular branch weren't 'registered' Indians. (Knowing how the Union felt about Indians, just look at their treatment of the Indian in general, would you, as an Indian, in reconstruction south, presented yourself at a US government office to 'register' yourself? I certainly wouldn't have! They'd have had to find my brown a@@ in the woods or bayou!) So, we have this particular ancestor's name, but not his mother or fathers name. *sigh*...

I will check with the Mormons though to see if someone else doing genealogy on a related branch copied down something relevant to mine. Thanks for the info!

19 posted on 10/12/2002 11:01:37 AM PDT by Black Agnes
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To: Tancred
Rainforest Researchers Hit Paydirt (Farming 11K Years Ago In South America)
20 posted on 10/12/2002 11:03:25 AM PDT by blam
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To: Old Professer
"The oldest male ancestor lived 100,000 years ago, while the oldest female ancestor lived 250,00 years ago; wouldn't that mean that those really old women wore out all but one man over the course of about 150,000 years?"

Mungo Man VS Mitochrondial Eve

21 posted on 10/12/2002 11:06:59 AM PDT by blam
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To: Tancred

This is Luzia, she died 11,500 years ago at the age of 24 in Brazil. She is the oldest dated skeleton ever found in the Americas.

22 posted on 10/12/2002 11:09:45 AM PDT by blam
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To: Tancred
Thanks for the great post. I liked hearing what the Apaches had to say about their origins.
23 posted on 10/12/2002 11:17:59 AM PDT by Pharmboy
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To: Black Agnes
This 'where shall we begin' problem has to be resolved by common agreement. In the area of English law, the solution was to go back to the Great Flood, Noah's Flood and call that a clean slate. tabula rasa. In America, this could be going back to the date of adoption of the Constitution of the United States. What other regions of the New World might do is up to them. Whatever science might discover is a side issue.

Anyway, that seems like an example of being practical about such things.

24 posted on 10/12/2002 1:51:21 PM PDT by RightWhale
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To: Tancred; *Gods, Graves, Glyphs
Just adding this to the GGG homepage, not sending a general distribution.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list --
Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.

25 posted on 07/21/2004 7:18:59 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Unlike some people, I have a profile. Okay, maybe it's a little large...)
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To: nanny
the Mormon church is supposed to have very elaborate genealogical files

I've found so many errors in the LDS files on my family that I tend to disregard them as a source.

26 posted on 07/21/2004 7:39:24 AM PDT by ASA Vet (Tourette's syndrome is just a $&#$*!% excuse for poor *%$#** language skills.)
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Just updating the GGG information, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

27 posted on 03/20/2006 9:17:21 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Yes indeed, Civ updated his profile and links pages again, on Monday, March 6, 2006.)
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· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic ·

 
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Graves
Glyphs
Just updating the GGG info, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

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28 posted on 06/15/2009 9:41:03 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Just updating the GGG information, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


29 posted on 05/27/2013 12:38:50 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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