Posted on 12/08/2005 1:29:11 PM PST by NYer
Rome, Dec. 08, 2005 (CNA) - After the Mass celebrated in Saint Peters Basilica, Pope Benedict marked the feast of the Immaculate Conception, paying homage to the statue of Mary in Rome's historic Piazza di Spagna .
Thousands of Romans flocked to the square to greet the German pope, on his first 'pilgrimage' to the sculpture of the Virgin .
The tradition of the papal pilgrimage was brought back by his predecessor John Paul II more than 20 years ago .
"I deliver to the celestial mother of the Redeemer the anxieties and hopes of humanity," the 78-year-old pontiff said. He called on Mary to grace mankind with her spiritual presence "in every moment of our existence, above all during moments of darkness and trials." The statue of the Virgin Mary stands on a column in the northern section of the piazza, just around the corner from the famed Spanish Steps known to all tourists .
The column was erected by Pope Pius IX in 1854 after he declared the dogma of her immaculate conception, meaning that Jesus' mother was conceived without the stain of original sin .
Paul may have instructed the Ephesians that they have, upon Christ's death and resurrection, been bestowed with spiritual graces(1:3-14) but he nowhere says Epeshians hail, you are full of grace! Nor is he an Archangel of the Lord, a significant distinction. It is Scriptural that Mary is full of grace, a statement not accorded to another woman elsewhere in Scripture, consequently a logical part of Tradition: many important things were not recorded but were known and occurred and held fast to in Tradition, but Mary's grace filled status is scriptural fact. And Paul says there are, for the Ephesians, spiritual grace but he does not go on to say that they are in the fullness of it or what would be the logic of this statement: "For this cause I also, hearing of the fiath in the Lord Jesus which is among you, and of your charity to all the saints, cease not giving thanks for you, making remembrance of you in my prayers, in order that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory may grant you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation unto the full knowledge of himself and enlighten the eyes of your heart to know wwhat is the hope of his calling, that the treasure of the glory of his inheritance among the saints" (1:15-19). In other words, these Ephesians are not there yet, but Paul prays that they may eventually be granted this fullness of grace.
There is no such qualification in the Lukan Narrative: "Hail full of grace the Lord is with thee" She is already full of Grace and with the Lord, whereas the Ephesians are still working on it, working it out, and with Paul's prayer. And Mary knows her place too and states: "henceforth all generations shall call me blessed" Luke 1:48. Paul doesn't say this about himself, or others. Only Mary is allowed this proclamation. And of course, before Mary even allows this about herself, Elizabeth witnesses this for us: "Blessed art thou among all woman" singularly identifying our Lady as alone among all women as, well, singularly blessed. And somehow, while I am sure you are very nice, I think the Church is correct in accepting Elizabeth's testimony, after all she was specially qualified giving birth, as she did, to the man who baptised our Lord. As to Mary's sinlessness, well the tabernacle of the Lord, logically, could never be unclean. V's wife.
It was similar with the first Tabernacle, the one that Moses built in the wilderness: The Lord came down as smoke and filled the Temple!
1 Corinthians 6:19 (The teaching of the Apostle Paul):May the Word of God be believed! Our souls may magnify the Lord just as Mary's did, for He has chosen to make our bodies His tent in this wilderness until He establishes New Jerusalem! O! God's peace to Jerusalem!
Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God?John 14:16-17 (The words of Jesus Christ):
"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you."
You ask
Who do you think loves you more - Jesus or Mary?
At the foot of the cross STOOD Mary,and on the cross was her Son Jesus-they both loved all mankind-for the sake of the immortal salvation of the souls. Neither HAD to be where they were-but under LOVE suffered to save us.
Could you stand there? and watch an innocent relative die?
Mary,is not greater then Jesus,she is not God-BUT she was the MOTHER..and from this she is LOVED and respected,and reverenced in the Catholic Church I hope one day you'll KNOW THIS. No sin in it and I bet it pleases Jesus to see His Mother LOVED, and called on..just as you'd callon your own flesh- Mother, thus,love and like the folks who like your MOM. Simple.
"Mary,is not greater then Jesus,she is not God-BUT she was the MOTHER..and from this she is LOVED and respected,and reverenced in the Catholic Church"
So, who do you think loves you more - Jesus or Mary?
That's excellent! I often wondered why +Luke elaborated so on the Blessed Mother, and not +John whose charge she was left in.
Equallly-because if not for Mary's "yes" there would be no Jesus and if NOT for Jesus' life,death and resuurection we could not get to Heaven.
Hey MurphE how about something on the last of my Post here.
We are in a relationship with God when we receive him, by his grace, and our faith, yes .30Carbine. But we are not unique, we are not proclaimed by an Archangel, we are not "full of grace" and, though the Holy Spirit resides in us, we offend the temple when we sin, which we do, we are fallen. She was not, nor could she have been by yes, even our own limited logic. It is inconceivable that God would choose as his vessel a vessel that was corrupt. Now, as to temples, yet they may be corrupt, otherwise, why would our Lord have to drive money changers from them? But the tabernacle? No, it must be pure. V's wife.
In Jesus' life there were mysteries, Luke's part was to explain the history of the glorious mystery of His birth in full detail. John's part seems to have been to intellectually convey the mystery of salvation more fully on an almost philosophical level. One recaps the past, one frames the future. This is my ignorant view. V's wife.
PM: So, who do you think loves you more - Jesus or Mary?
Rosary: Equallly-because if not for Mary's "yes" there would be no Jesus...
Rosary, even your Catholic friends will tell you that, though you may not have intended it, your statement is blasphemous. Jesus is eternal and infinite God. Mary is a finite, created being and her love could never come close to the Love which God has for you.
Reflect on Paul's prayer for believers recorded in Ephesians,
"For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named, that according to the riches of his glory he may grant you to be strengthened with power through his Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith--that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may have strength to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.
Now to him who is able to do far more abundantly than all that we ask or think, according to the power at work within us, to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, forever and ever. Amen.
Ephesians 3
There is nothing contradicted in Rosary's statement. They love equally-he in his capacity, she in hers. Are their capacities equal? No. But that is not what you asked. In charity, V's wife.
I've always been impressed with the cruxifiction sequence in John, where Jesus bestows Mary as mother of the disciple that He loved, and then, seeing that all was completed, gave up the ghost.
His very last pre-resurrection act...which completed his work.
Hmm. Powerful stuff. Particularly when I reflect that I am a disciple, and that Jesus loves me.
It's frankly a little difficult, given the above, to get inside the heads of Sola Scriptura types who seem intent on scoring points off of Catholics by reducing Mary to a disposable status, and that's even before reading about the "Queen of Heaven" in Rev. At the beginning of chapter 12 she gives birth to the Christ. She is pursued and persecuted. At the end of chapter 12 she has many children, all of whom bear the testimony of Jesus Christ. It does not go on to reflect that many of her own seed deride her. That role seems left to "others."
V's wife's husband
I saw this episode last night... them cartoonist are crazy.
Protestants always say this in an attempt to minimize the Blessed Mother, and it never ceases to amaze me.
How is it that you claim to know what God "would have done" had Mary said "no"? Who are you??
You have no idea what God "would have done"; you can no more speculate about God's hypothetical reactions in hypothetical situations than you can turn a hair on your head white or black, to borrow a phrase of the Lord's.
And incidentally, claiming that grace comes through Jesus, not through Mary, is to deny the obvious Incarnational fact of the Christian faith that Jesus came through Mary!
You are going far, far off the rails, PM. If you stay on the trajectory you're on, you'll soon be a Jehovah's Witness or a B'nai Noach; not even a Christian anymore.
Mary is also a finite, created being who stands in the presence of God at this moment, and her love for us is greater than that of any earthly being we know.
How big a difference is there between finite and infinite?
But we have this treasure in jars of clay
to show that this all-surpassing power is from God
and not from us.
2 Corinthians 4:7
1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;
2. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.
3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;
4. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance.
5. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit.
6. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.
7. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit.
8. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated.
9. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.
10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal.
11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal.
12. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.
13. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty.
14. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.
15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;
16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.
17. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord;
18. And yet they are not three Lords but one Lord.
O! Beware that thou shouldst add a fourth person to the Godhead!
3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;
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